I need to tell to my uBPDh to decline any contact with third cousin

[snowglobe]

Short story- my uBPDh was raised by np mother and BPD father. She even played munchausen by proxy card with my uBPDh when he was little. Him having asthma meant she wouldn’t allow him into childcare or having social interactions. He grew up isolated, turmoiled and stuck in her push and pull relationships. I’m not going into too much detail, but most of you here can imagine the dynamics. Throughout the years we’ve been together she has been manipulative, vindictive and paranoid. She is exceptionally skillful in fear, obligation and guilt tripping my uBPDh. From his teenage years on it’s been a pattern of him running away, and then coming back in his own like a tray dog. At the age of 17 he first left due to severe beating from his BPD father, his mom never came after him. He was living in a bug infested apartment with 5 other people for 9 months, she was ok with that. Present time, she would praise his younger brother and play the auction card on both of them, especially my BPDh. “Sold to a highest bidder” I call it, love. She would call my uBPDh and say “your brother is such an amazing son, the best, he bought me abc, took me to xwz, did def for me, he is simply the best”. Then my uBPDh would try to top his brother, and she would call her other son and so on. She has never worked a day in her life, always depending on her husband first, and now my brother in law financially. She always says that “working is below such an amazing woman like her, who raised these amazing kids. If she had one more child, he would carry her into a White House”. Thus suggesting that because they come out of her, they are destined for grandiosity (npd much?) she has never volunteered or sone anything productive for the society, her daily regiment is cooking, gossiping and plotting intrigues into her son’s lives. She even as much as convinced her other son to install camera’s inside of his house so she can use the surveillance to see what his wife is doing. She is openly sharing spying on her dyl on a daily basis, both audio and video.
Now back to my uBPDh, like many of you on the forum know, this is a pattern of the foo of BPD and np, she calls, she nags, pleads, begs and intimidates, he validates her, he jumps out of his skin to please her, she creates tormoils and secrets “don’t tell your wife”, instigated fights. He carries out, like the good boy he is, than one time he asks her of something, she doesn’t come through, or he feels that I had enough and I’m snapping, he splits her black and we go nc for a while. Until the next cycle. I’ve been trying to avoid this triangle for as long as I can remember, but she keeps on violating my reasonable boundaries and I speak to my h about it. She doesn’t take “no” for an answer. The cycle repeats.

Today’s issue at hand:

She (husbands mom) “accidentally” contacted my uBPDh, instead of her brother. 90% of the time it is to extort money or get some gain, either be of a service to her.

She has a second cousin back in the Home country they care from, who supposedly has cancer. I say supposedly, because the same second cousin made my mil give her many possessions, took advantage of her and played sick card before, with MO actual proof other then her word. Mil forced my bil into sending large amounts of money to her second cousin in the home country for “treatment”.

The same second cousin has a daughter, my uBPDh’s age. They were close once, I don’t know too many details, but being his third cousin, he mentioned some “fling” when they were young. The same cousin is taking care of her mother with cancer, and receives money from my bil, under supervision of my mil.

Yesterday I was a witness to my uBPDh’s conversation with his mother. She now wants him to call her, after 25 years of nc, because she is “always asking about him”.

Wow, I was taken aback. I know what it means. She will start the bidding war for the “better son” to win her love and approval through financial support of this far unknown relative.

Back to me, I sympathize and emphasize with someone being gravely I’ll, however I have a son with severe disability and a large mortgage and many personal needs that I haven’t fulfilled yet. There isn’t any room for financial support of another person, especially not close to us.

In addition, I don’t feel comfortable for my h to be in contact with his “ex” even if it was years ago.

I need to speak to my uBPDh to kindly decline any contact or involvement in this drama.

Those of you who help me with advice and are familiar with my story, please advise me how to cautiously approach the subject. Although I know that I can’t control his decisions or behaviour, having my mil stirring up the old flames is deeply upsetting.

Thank you in advance

[formflier]

Wow...

   

Boundary busting and manipulation on steroids.  The solution is focus on your boundaries and healthy communication and radical acceptance.

It seems you understand the big picture.  Sending money is bad.  Perhaps offer emotional support via a card to the Mom.

"Mom, thanks for letting us know about Uncle.  We'll keep him and your relationship with him in our thoughts (and prayers... if religious)." 

Send this via us mail.  Make sure you and hubby sign it so it is authentic.  Stick with LC with Mom and NC with uncle.  See if Mom will go through the work to write a letter back.

Full disclosure:  This is no fix.  This is likely going to shift the cycle to the Mom scratching her head.  If she does put her manipulation on paper, hopefully it will be more obvious and something you and your hubby can come together around to set better boundaries.

Can you describe a cycle where they get closer and then go NC?  As many details as you can.  Is "accidentally" contacting the son the usual method of contact to restart the cycle.

FF

[Skip]

So, you are thinking he will give aid (money) to this distant relative to please his mother. You don't want that to happen and you don't want him to talk to his third cousin who he had a "fling" with many tears ago.

Can you mediate this?

What does he want to do?

If he does want to call and does want to offer a modest amount of aid, would this upset you?

[formflier]

Perhaps also be pragmatic and wise.

Let's say hubby says he will contact. 

He asks about the "treatment" and the "condition". 

Help is needed.  Practice ahead of time asking for the address of the treatment facility so you can help buy medicine directly.  Ask for contact information of "case manager".

You may quickly find out there is no "treatment". 

You may get further agreeing to help but only to pay treatment bills directly.  DO NOT send money directly to any of these people.

FF

[snowglobe]

@formflier,

prologue
Thank you for replying to my post. It’s been long and rather disappointing day. Today we drove to our “business trip” destination, our kids stayed behind with grandparents. A pressing and overwhelming feeling of emtyness is coming over me. I’m starting to doubt my dedication to “keeping his sh$t” together. I’m sacrificing my personal growth, I’ve neglected my studies, I’m leaving my kids behind, just to make sure that he isn’t drinking or participates in drug bingies, or gambles our kids future away. It’s seems fruitless, because while we were driving here, he was telling me that I will need to work things out with V. (His partner, we have a long story) on how much I can come to the office, and if I can. I’m starting to reconsider if I’m making the right choices, for me and my children. More on that to come.
Answers to your questions:
I loved the suggestion of sending a card, unfortunately it would fly completely over her head. Culturally it would be lost in translation, the only two methods of communication acceptable for her is phone call or a text message. I’m leaning towards a text message sent from his phone And signed by both of our names. I’ve had a chance to briefly address it in the car in a long drive to our business destination. I calmly stated that because she isn’t busy or working she has a lot of time on her hands to assign tasks to others. I also pointed out to him that we are going through a lot of stress with business, separation from kids( I think he is loving playinf the only kid with me) and our son’s disability to take on more stress. I also told him that I already informed his mom that we won’t be contacting his third cousin to inquire on her mom’s cancer diagnosis or support her emotionally. I bluffed to see if he would have a reaction. He remained neutral and seemed to accept it. I now plan to speak to her later this week informing her of “our” decision.
Now the “meat” of them getting closer and then no contact.
She always calls him “by accident” after prolonged contact. Sometimes it’s months, sometimes years. She calls, telling him that she called/texted his brother and got him by accident. Nonetheless she is very happy and misses him a lot. She proceeds to berate him for not calling or checking in to see if his parents are alive, and guilt tripping him about how much his brother does for them. She then demands him to come and see them every week and spend a day dedicated solemnly to them, as well as regular phone calls to make sure that they aren’t in need of anything. She also tells him that she is “almost on her death bed” (as long as I’ve known her she was always “gravely I’ll” with some phantom illness that always manically disappeared when convenient. Therefore he needs to spend all of his time with her to catch a glimpse of an amazing woman that raised him and have him life and sacrificed everything for him. At last she asks him about him and business. Without exception he always tells her how amazing things are financially, even when we actually struggle financially. What an amazing businessman he is, how wealthy, powerful and achieved he feels. She immediately makes a list of expensive things, trips, tangibles she always wanted but never got. Kind of like a Christmas letter to Santa, and my uBPDh jumps at fulfilling it immediately. At the expense and cost of upsetting me and no consideration for the family budget. Once she gets everything she wanted, she begins to raise the stakes with his brother. Eventually, she always cancels plans/ birthday/events that she promised to come for with some lame last minute excuse. Or she starts pushing her wishes on me, creates distortion and turmoil, like when she was forcing me to quit breastfeeding our eldest daughter through my uBPDh. Everyday she called him to say that his wife was raising a pervert by breastfeeding her child for 24 months. Eventually I snapped and told him to get out. He went ballistic on her and cut the contact for a while. It’s 50-50 chance, 50 percent that he cuts contact from disappointment of her not coming through for him, and 50 percent because I tell him that I’m no longer dealing with drama and getting out of the relationships, so he cuts her out of our lives.

[5xFive]

Snowglobe,
I’m so sorry that you’re going through this struggle. Healthy in laws can be tough. Unhealthy in laws and unhealthy spouses, argh. So difficult for us nons. Sometimes it can be crazy making.
It sounds to me like you have a plan. It also sounds like h does not have a strong opinion either way (am I right about this?) so you can go ahead and let her know the decision that you and your husband have agreed upon, maybe verifying with him one more time that he is in agreement first? I’m not sure about this, I’m still such a noob when it comes to how to make decisions WITH our pwBPD, carefully respecting their spoken and unspoken wishes while setting boundaries for myself and a healthy relationship.
I’m so sorry that you had a disappointing day. It’s hard to be strong all the time and positive, and especially the emotional strength in the relationship. You are doing amazing! Keep us posted, please.

[snowglobe]

So, you are thinking he will give aid (money) to this distant relative to please his mother. You don't want that to happen and you don't want him to talk to his third cousin who he had a "fling" with many tears ago.

Can you mediate this?

What does he want to do?

If he does want to call and does want to offer a modest amount of aid, would this upset you?

You are absolutely right Skip, I think in terms of prognostic financial decisions, if you still have a large mortgage, expensive therapy for ASD son, and other urgently pressing expenses it’s by very least unwise to commit to financially help someone else. Moreover, from my understanding, this third cousin who is few years older sexually experimented with my uBPDh, in ways that are morally questionable. I’m not referring to actual act, more so to the fact that her actions seemes predatory at that time.
Can I mediate this?
I can try, because I’m almost certain from the long history with his mother that once the hook sets in, my uBPDh will be cashing out large sums of money, taking it from the kids. My plan is to speak to my uBPDh later this week when she calls. We don’t have a Home Phone, only cell phones. It’s an established practice for us to pick up the phone by whoever was close at that time. He answers my calls and passes the phone over, sometimes I take his calls before passing him the phone, or message when he is busy. I’m planning to be near him this week. When she calls, I will pick up And nicely inquire about her well being and events that occurred during the week. Make a small talk. Then, In passing, I will tell her “we are so very sorry this is happening to your relative. It’s very painful to watch someone go through painful cancer struggle. You sound very concerned. However with our high stress level at work, expenses associated with our son’s treatment and overall financial setuation we decided that we aren’t going to contact cousin. It would only add to our stress level, and it’s too much at this time. Please, keep us updated on the setuation and we will keep her in our prayers.” I will then get my uBPDh confirm our decision and refuse to engage in any more “but you have to” conversations. She will likely try to guilt trip my uBPDh into it, I will cut the conversation short by saying that we are at work and busy right now. I will then give it some time to cool down before calling her back. She will be pissed that things didn’t go as she wanted. This never happens with her younger son, he is like her good little soldier, calling the same cousin and sending her the money. In this setuation it’s our prerogative, and it seems that my uBPDh doesn’t have a strong option on that.

[snowglobe]

  skip,
To your last question: it would greatly upset me if he sent any amount of money overseas. That part of Eastern Europe is notorious for nail brides, extortion and scams. I am highly doubting the authenticity of the diagnosis. Additionally, he is terrible with making financial decisions. True to BPD, he can be swayed into sending obscene amount at his hearts desire. We are comfortable financially, but I believe that our commitment should first and foremost be to our children. I have many relatives both here and oversees in need of financial assistance and rescue. I however understand that I need to prioritize and secure our family’s Financial future.
Thoughts?

[Skip]

When she calls, I will pick up And nicely inquire about her well being and events that occurred during the week. Make a small talk. Then, In passing, I will tell her “we are so very sorry this is happening to your relative. It’s very painful to watch someone go through painful cancer struggle. You sound very concerned. However with our high stress level at work, expenses associated with our son’s treatment and overall financial situation we decided that we aren’t going to contact cousin. It would only add to our stress level, and it’s too much at this time. Please, keep us updated on the situation and we will keep her in our prayers.” I will then get my uBPDh confirm our decision and refuse to engage in any more “but you have to” conversations.

How will your husband respond to that?

[snowglobe]

How will your husband respond to that?

Likely say yes, mom, I don’t have time for this right now. Or talk to {my name}, I don’t want to have any conflict. You guys deal with it. He doesn’t like confrontations. Thoughts?

[flourdust]

On the money side of things, it becomes controlling to dictate what someone can or can't spend money on. The exceptions would be if the spending creates financial hardship or is illegal.

So, forget about the issues with him spending money on relatives, etc. Instead, imagine that he has some oddball but harmless hobby -- he collects rare bottle caps. How much can he spend on bottle caps without harming the family finances or goals? Then don't worry about where he sends money until he hits that number.

[snowglobe]

On the money side of things, it becomes controlling to dictate what someone can or can't spend money on. The exceptions would be if the spending creates financial hardship or is illegal.

So, forget about the issues with him spending money on relatives, etc. Instead, imagine that he has some oddball but harmless hobby -- he collects rare bottle caps. How much can he spend on bottle caps without harming the family finances or goals? Then don't worry about where he sends money until he hits that number.

@flourdust,
Thank you for pointing out the limit to me. The setuation is a little bit different from signing up to, Let’s say for the sake of the argument, to a program of remotely sponsoring a child, saving whales or any other charity fund or organization. Part of my uBPDh’s modus operates is addiction. Sort of like gambling, if he is in, he will ignore any limit we decide on early on. If he will commit and involve himself in this family drama, no amount of validation, reasoning or pleading will apply. He will exhaust every resource available, until there are non, and move on. He doesn’t allow me to ever bring up his past financial bingies.

[formflier]

Stick with the card.  That it would go right over her head is the point.

Perhaps only discuss the cousin's ailments further in letters.  No calls or texts.

The point is to slow it down and increase the "cost" to Mom to communicate.  Perhaps she will stop.

FF

[formflier]

  He will exhaust every resource available, until there are non, and move on. He doesn’t allow me to ever bring up his past financial bingies.

M


So... .it really depends on whose money it is and the financial agreements in place.

With a family business that can sometimes become less clear.  If he has a pattern of "financial binges" that I would focus on more rather than the current "crisis" he is responding to financially.

You also need to sort out what you actually do and don't control... .legally. 

In my life, every bit of money that I legally control now goes to an individual account.  I no longer make financial agreements with my wife.

She has her own job and makes decisions about her finances.

In-laws:  I'm almost at the 2 year point for zero in person contact with my wife's family.  My life is so much better.  I still occasionally exchange a text with MIL about dropping off kids or something like that. 

Not suggesting you do that, yet I am suggesting that you think through what YOU can do to limit the "impact" of in laws on your life.

FF