Taxes

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I'm curious if any of you have tips to share about handling taxes during the separation/divorce process.  Some facts I am working with:

-I have always done our taxes and am comfortable with doing them.
-dBPDh has generally been overwhelmed when I have tried to involve him (probably more aptly termed "inform him" in what I was doing. 
-dBPDh was unemployed with no personal income from 2009-2016
-dBPDh started his own business in 2017 in response to me leaving him and filing for legal separation.
-I have NO idea how much money he made or paid in taxes in 2017.  I know what he claims to have made in our mediation and what the "going rate" is for his services.
-dBPDh has hired a CPA to do his taxes
-We were legally married as of December 31, 2017
-I've run the numbers and filing separately increases my tax liability so much that I would owe $8K whereas filing jointly would mean I'd get $5K back (based on my income/deductions information without entering any income/deductions for him).
-My lawyer has requested through his lawyer that our separation agreement state that we will file jointly for 2017
-dBPDh has agreed to have his CPA run the numbers for his taxes both ways (filing separate and joint)


I've increased my withholding for 2018 after running these numbers and will probably be able to file head of household in 2018 since our legal separation (and maybe divorce) will be final this year. 

Any creative ideas on how to influence dBPDh to file jointly if it is neutral for him?  I doubt he made enough last year to bump us to the next tax bracket but I suspect that he may not get as much of a benefit from filing jointly.  Then there's the possibility that he didn't pay enough in estimated taxes and how do we decide how to split tax owed or refunded? 

Sigh.  There is part of me that wants to just file separately and pay the extra taxes just so I don't have to deal with him on it.  I'm trying to let my lawyer be the demanding b***h on my behalf, but I'm worried that he'll figure out this is something I want from him, dig in, and bog down an already slow process.

BeagleGirl

[BeagleGirl]

I'm curious if any of you have tips to share about handling taxes during the separation/divorce process.  Some facts I am working with:

-I have always done our taxes and am comfortable with doing them.
-dBPDh has generally been overwhelmed when I have tried to involve him (probably more aptly termed "inform him" in what I was doing. 
-dBPDh was unemployed with no personal income from 2009-2016
-dBPDh started his own business in 2017 in response to me leaving him and filing for legal separation.
-I have NO idea how much money he made or paid in taxes in 2017.  I know what he claims to have made in our mediation and what the "going rate" is for his services.
-dBPDh has hired a CPA to do his taxes
-We were legally married as of December 31, 2017
-I've run the numbers and filing separately increases my tax liability so much that I would owe $8K whereas filing jointly would mean I'd get $5K back (based on my income/deductions information without entering any income/deductions for him).
-My lawyer has requested through his lawyer that our separation agreement state that we will file jointly for 2017
-dBPDh has agreed to have his CPA run the numbers for his taxes both ways (filing separate and joint)


I've increased my withholding for 2018 after running these numbers and will probably be able to file head of household in 2018 since our legal separation (and maybe divorce) will be final this year. 

Any creative ideas on how to influence dBPDh to file jointly if it is neutral for him?  I doubt he made enough last year to bump us to the next tax bracket but I suspect that he may not get as much of a benefit from filing jointly.  Then there's the possibility that he didn't pay enough in estimated taxes and how do we decide how to split tax owed or refunded? 

Sigh.  There is part of me that wants to just file separately and pay the extra taxes just so I don't have to deal with him on it.  I'm trying to let my lawyer be the demanding b***h on my behalf, but I'm worried that he'll figure out this is something I want from him, dig in, and bog down an already slow process.

BeagleGirl

[livednlearned]

Divorce can be pretty dysregulating for someone struggling with BPD.

I found the only thing that worked was leverage. Without that, offering something in return could work, depending on the severity of his symptoms. Would he agree to filing jointly if part of that money was paid out to him? Would you be ok with that?

It's also possible that the Ls have a collegial relationship, in which case his L might present it like it's his idea.

Whatever you do, try to not negotiate with yourself before you hear back. Wait until you find out before making any new offers  Pro tip  

[toomanydogs]

Hi Beagle Girl,
  I agree with LandL: if the lawyers can handle this and suggest it in such a way that your ex thinks it's his idea... .Good idea.
  What your post reminds me of is what I've told friends: The only thing harder than being married to my H is trying to divorce him. God, I'm tired.
  Good luck,
TMD

[ForeverDad]

I found the only thing that worked was Leverage. Without that, offering something in return could work, depending on the severity of his symptoms. Would he agree to filing jointly if part of that money was paid out to him? Would you be ok with that?

It's also possible that the Ls have a collegial relationship, in which case his L might present it like it's his idea.

Whatever you do, try to not negotiate with yourself before you hear back. Wait until you find out before making any new offers.

I had a two year divorce an faced that dilemma, do I withhold enough for filing separately so I avoid penalties for not withholding enough or do I withhold less so there is a smaller refund.  Not knowing how to get the spouse to file jointly if terrifying.  The first time I was able to file electronically using the typical codes used that year for acknowledgement.  (Yes, she claimed I forged her signature when there was no actual signature required, well, that year.)  The next year it was changed to requiring a signature for future records.  She refused to respond to my efforts for comment.  I filed for the automatic extension.  In October we happened to have a hearing and her lawyer and my lawyer finally addressed it.  Their brilliant solution was that she would sign if I gave her half the withholding refund.  Of course she had little earnings, so the refund was entirely from my withholding. Unfair but it sure made me wish I hadn't withheld so much.

That's how I faced the issue.  I don't know if you can require him to sign jointly.  I would expect any deal would involve him getting some of your refund as incentive.  Sorry.  Just don't volunteer to do so.  And make sure you control the refund's return.  You know you can comply with any agreement, he's unlikely to reciprocate similarly.

For the years I was in divorce court I decided it was safer to have my taxes done professionally.  That way if she made any claims of fraud or forgery it wouldn't land in my lap.

[formflier]

Ask for copies of the numbers that his CPA ran "both ways".

At some point you need to see his "inputs".

Compare that to what was mediated.  There will be a difference, since I doubt a CPA was involved with mediation... .but a determination needs to be made if the differences are "nuance" or if the differences are a deliberate deception that materially changes the facts you used in your decision making.

Depending on what is found, you may have found your leverage (a stick) or you may have to still use "a carrot" to entice him.

FF