Why did Charlie Brown keep trying to kick that ball?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Why did Charlie Brown keep trying to kick that ball?

It was the same setup, every time. Lucy would say she was going to hold the ball so he could kick it, and Chuck would be skeptical because of all the times Lucy pulled the ball away at the last second, letting him kick the air and land flat on his back. But he wanted to kick the ball so bad, so he talked himself into believing that maybe, just maybe, this time she wouldn't do it. I mean, who could possibly pull the same stunt so many times? Surely, SURELY, this time she wouldn't do it.

Every time he thought "I'm going to do it. I'm really going to kick it far this time."

But what happened? Lucy pulled the ball away at the last minute. Every time. And there was Charlie Brown, lying on his back wondering why he was so stupid as to trust her not to pull the ball out from under him-again.

Maybe Lucy even considered not pulling the ball away. Maybe she thought to herself, "This time I'm going to let him kick it. I'm not going to pull it away this time."

But for some reason, her mean streak kicked in right when he was heading towards the ball, and she just couldn't resist pulling it away. And Chuck just couldn't resist trying to kick it, no matter how many times she pulled it out from under him before.

He just wanted her to hold it still so badly, because he could imagine how far that ball would fly if he could just get one good kick in. If only Lucy would cooperate. If only she would do what she said she would do, just once. If only Lucy weren't so, well, LUCY.

Chuck muses, while lying flat on his back with the wind knocked out of him again, that he should have known better.

I feel you, Charlie Brown. Who knows what provokes Lucy to take advantage of your trust over and over again. I don't know why she can't just let you kick the dadgum ball, either. Maybe she has control issues. Maybe she feels threatened by the idea that you might actually succeed at something. Maybe she's a bully because something inside herself is lacking confidence, or self-esteem. Maybe she just is mean.

We may never know the answers to these and other questions. I just now that some days I walk around feeling exactly like Charlie Brown.

Good grief.

[I Am Redeemed]

Why did Charlie Brown keep trying to kick that ball?

It was the same setup, every time. Lucy would say she was going to hold the ball so he could kick it, and Chuck would be skeptical because of all the times Lucy pulled the ball away at the last second, letting him kick the air and land flat on his back. But he wanted to kick the ball so bad, so he talked himself into believing that maybe, just maybe, this time she wouldn't do it. I mean, who could possibly pull the same stunt so many times? Surely, SURELY, this time she wouldn't do it.

Every time he thought "I'm going to do it. I'm really going to kick it far this time."

But what happened? Lucy pulled the ball away at the last minute. Every time. And there was Charlie Brown, lying on his back wondering why he was so stupid as to trust her not to pull the ball out from under him-again.

Maybe Lucy even considered not pulling the ball away. Maybe she thought to herself, "This time I'm going to let him kick it. I'm not going to pull it away this time."

But for some reason, her mean streak kicked in right when he was heading towards the ball, and she just couldn't resist pulling it away. And Chuck just couldn't resist trying to kick it, no matter how many times she pulled it out from under him before.

He just wanted her to hold it still so badly, because he could imagine how far that ball would fly if he could just get one good kick in. If only Lucy would cooperate. If only she would do what she said she would do, just once. If only Lucy weren't so, well, LUCY.

Chuck muses, while lying flat on his back with the wind knocked out of him again, that he should have known better.

I feel you, Charlie Brown. Who knows what provokes Lucy to take advantage of your trust over and over again. I don't know why she can't just let you kick the dadgum ball, either. Maybe she has control issues. Maybe she feels threatened by the idea that you might actually succeed at something. Maybe she's a bully because something inside herself is lacking confidence, or self-esteem. Maybe she just is mean.

We may never know the answers to these and other questions. I just now that some days I walk around feeling exactly like Charlie Brown.

Good grief.

[Insom]

Hi, Redeemed! 

I feel you, Charlie Brown.

Are you thinking about a specific incident?  Or musing in general?

[Feeling Better]

Interesting post I am Redeemed.

Have you considered the fact that Charlie Brown keeps trying to kick the ball because he’s not a quitter? He might not see the fact that Lucy is being mean to him in his determination to kick that damn ball. I see it that Charlie Brown wants to succeed x

[enlighten me]

I think its more down to hope than him not being a quitter. He hopes she will change towards him and let him kick the ball.

[Feeling Better]

enlighten me, yes, I can see where you are coming from, I agree with you that Charlie Brown does have hope that she will change. Is it possible also that the hope he has prevents him from being a quitter?

[enlighten me]

Hope always stops you from quitting but as Einstein said "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result."

So maybe Charlie Brown was just crazy.

[I Am Redeemed]

Are you thinking about a specific incident?  Or musing in general?

Hi Insom  

In general, the Charlie Brown analogy characterizes my r/s with upbdh, from whom I am currently separated through an order of protection. Specifically, attempting to "kick the ball" would be all the times I thought to myself that there did not seem to be any hope for change in his behavior, and the r/s would only get progressively worse with an unfavorable and possibly dangerous outcome. It defied logic, reason and sanity for me to stay. Yet... .I tried to "kick the ball" time and again, telling myself that "Maybe this time will be different. Maybe he will ___(stay sober, get treatment, go to counseling, get properly diagnosed and get an appropriate treatment plan, follow through with said plan, go to church, find Jesus, go back to twelve step meetings, etc). Maybe this time he will not ______(relapse, have psychotic episodes and delusions, blame me for everything, accuse me of things I did not say or do, rage at me, spend our bill money, resort to verbal, emotional and physical abuse when angry).

Inevitably, I found myself feeling like I just got the wind knocked out of me, wondering why the h did I convince myself to try this again, and berating myself because I should have known better (DID know better).  

I think its more down to hope than him not being a quitter. He hopes she will change towards him and let him kick the ball.

Yes, he does, even though he knows the probability is slim.

enlighten me, yes, I can see where you are coming from, I agree with you that Charlie Brown does have hope that she will change. Is it possible also that the hope he has prevents him from being a quitter?

Absolutely. That glimmer of hope is all he has to combat the logical, though marginally less favorable, expectation of the outcome of this situation.

Have you considered the fact that Charlie Brown keeps trying to kick the ball because he’s not a quitter? He might not see the fact that Lucy is being mean to him in his determination to kick that damn ball. I see it that Charlie Brown wants to succeed x

So true, so very true- Charlie Brown is NOT a quitter. He has grit, and determination, and heart. He refuses to give up. He believes, he hopes against all hope, he does not let past failures or present obstacles deter him from pursuing his dream. He definitely wants to succeed- he can imagine every detail of what it would feel like, look like, to kick that ball as far as it will go. He can see it in his mind's eye as he wrestles with the decision of whether or not to trust Lucy again, to set himself up for potential failure and disappointment. But the prospect of actually seeing his dream come to pass just can not be ignored, despite the risk involved and the odds being stacked against him.

Hope always stops you from quitting but as Einstein said "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result."

So maybe Charlie Brown was just crazy.

EXACTLY- I knew someone would hit on this if I put it out there. At what point does hope as a motivator become an unhealthy behavior?

I believe the answer is "when it's mixed with denial." What do you guys think?

Was Chuck crazy? I don't think so. Did his desire to see his dream come to pass cross the boundary into behavior that fit the definition of insanity? mmm, little bit, yeah.

I touched on the question of why Lucy kept pulling the ball away at the last minute. Sometimes when people repeatedly do something that causes us pain and frustration, we want to know why, because we feel that if we can figure out why, then we can make them stop doing what we don't want them to do or make them start doing what we do want them to do. We also feel that knowing why will help us answer the question "Is there something wrong with me?"

Knowing the "why'' doesn't always mean the problem will be fixed, at least not where other people are involved. My post was about why Charlie Brown kept kicking the ball, not why Lucy kept pulling it away. I can only change my behavior, not someone else's. Even if I figure out the problem, orchestrate a grand solution, serve it on a silver platter and try to spoon feed it to someone--they still might spit it right back up.

My hope for the future of our marriage and the commitment I made to see us succeed against all odds kept me in the cycle of dysfunction. I allowed myself to believe that a different result was possible and denied the evidence from past experiences that suggested otherwise. I still catch myself entertaining brief flights of fancy that allow me to wonder "what if there might still be a chance that things will change?" Why? Because I don't want to give up on hope. I don't want to be a quitter.

I also don't want to be insane.

[Feeling Better]

I Am Redeemed
EXACTLY- I knew someone would hit on this if I put it out there. At what point does hope as a motivator become an unhealthy behavior?

I believe the answer is "when it's mixed with denial." What do you guys think?

Yes, I can see that hope mixed with denial would in fact be a hopeless situation. It would also be unhealthy behaviour if hope was allowed to become an obsession. In Charlie Brown’s case, if he became obsessed with kicking the ball he would lose all sense of reason. His main goal in life would be to kick that ball no matter what consequence or cost to himself and he would ultimately end up sacrificing himself.

My hope for the future of our marriage and the commitment I made to see us succeed against all odds kept me in the cycle of dysfunction. I allowed myself to believe that a different result was possible and denied the evidence from past experiences that suggested otherwise. I still catch myself entertaining brief flights of fancy that allow me to wonder "what if there might still be a chance that things will change?" Why? Because I don't want to give up on hope. I don't want to be a quitter.

I also don't want to be insane.

There is nothing wrong in not wanting to give up hope, hope keeps us going when all else fails, but hope can sometimes let us down. There is no shame and no sense of failure attached to quitting as long as you know that you did the very best that you could. Acceptance in my opinion is knowing when hope has gone and when to quit.

[Mustbeabetterway]

Boy, I have related to Charlie Brown a lot!  IMHO, Charlie sees Lucy like he wants her to be instead of as she is.  So he keeps on hoping that the caring, nice person he believes is really under that mean exterior will come out.  Sheesh!  I have been in denial.  In the short run hoping, wishing, believing against all common sense is easier than doing the hard work of change. 

In Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist in Your Life:  How to End the Drama and Get On With Life, Margalis Fjelstad says that  "as long as you keep hoping, believing and needing the BP/NP to be different rather than taking the steps you could take to make things different, you are in the stage of denial."

Now, I am doing the hard, and it is hard, work to change my life for the better.  I am powerless over his life.  Hard lesson learned.

[I Am Redeemed]

Thanks for your input everybody!

Yes, I can see that hope mixed with denial would in fact be a hopeless situation. It would also be unhealthy behaviour if hope was allowed to become an obsession. In Charlie Brown’s case, if he became obsessed with kicking the ball he would lose all sense of reason. His main goal in life would be to kick that ball no matter what consequence or cost to himself and he would ultimately end up sacrificing himself.

quote


There is nothing wrong in not wanting to give up hope, hope keeps us going when all else fails, but hope can sometimes let us down. There is no shame and no sense of failure attached to quitting as long as you know that you did the very best that you could. Acceptance in my opinion is knowing when hope has gone and when to quit.

Yes, you are so right. I did end up sacrificing myself, and became quite hopeless in the process. I also felt a great pressure to avoid failure. Perhaps that is the perfectionist nature I have. I now realize that I can still hold on to hope, to an extent, for his recovery. I still love and care for him, and we do have four children together, and I will continue to pray for him and hope that he can one day make positive changes in his life. The difference is that I will no longer put my own safety and well-being (nor that of my children) at risk while hoping for that outcome. I will make healthy choices whether he does or not. I will no longer allow his poor choices to affect my stability or serenity. I will no longer base my happiness on whether or not he decides to change. I can remove that stipulation from the equation, and proceed with my life. Happiness is a choice. It is a mindset. I can choose to learn how to adopt it, even if life does not unfold according to my plans.

Boy, I have related to Charlie Brown a lot!  IMHO, Charlie sees Lucy like he wants her to be instead of as she is.  So he keeps on hoping that the caring, nice person he believes is really under that mean exterior will come out.  Sheesh!  I have been in denial.  In the short run hoping, wishing, believing against all common sense is easier than doing the hard work of change. 

In Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist in Your Life:  How to End the Drama and Get On With Life, Margalis Fjelstad says that  "as long as you keep hoping, believing and needing the BP/NP to be different rather than taking the steps you could take to make things different, you are in the stage of denial."

Now, I am doing the hard, and it is hard, work to change my life for the better.  I am powerless over his life.  Hard lesson learned.

I agree. Denial is a buffer to the "hard". I am now doing the hard work of changing. I can see why, in a sense, my uBPDh has not made real efforts to find help with his many issues (mental health, substance abuse, physical aggression, etc.) because change is hard, and it is scary, and uncomfortable, and it is the kind of thing I used to want to shut out by staying in bed all day and pretending that life didn't have to be lived.
But it does. No amount of denial changes the truth. My uBPDh  used to tell me "If I tell you a lie, and you believe it, then it's the truth to you." And I would always think, "so... .that doesn't make it the truth."
In search of truth today, y'all. Getting to the root cause of MY issues. Understanding myself and my behavior so I can progress, and untangle some of the twisted thought patterns I developed over the years. I spent so much time and effort trying to figure out what was wrong with HIM, how to fix HIM, what would make HIM change. Didn't have the energy left to sort through my own stuff.
I probably had to take a step or two back to be able to see it anyway. Three months out and I'm starting to have little moments of clarity where before I was just trying to survive. I could barely focus on daily tasks, much less all this "head and heart" stuff. I don't have much energy today to process a lot, honestly, but I take it as it comes and try to break it down. You eat a steak, not the whole cow.

I appreciate everyone's thoughts and replies. So glad you guys are here. thanks for reading

Redeemed

[Feeling Better]

As an extra to my previous post, I would like to say that acceptance brings peace of mind. When Charlie Brown finally accepts that Lucy will never give up the ball he gives up his struggles which then leads him to peace.

I feel that you are getting there, try to not be so hard on yourself, don’t beat yourself up over things that you have no control over and things that you can’t change.

Charlie Brown saw success as managing to kick the ball. I’m sure that once Charlie Brown accepted that that was never going to happen and he walked away he experienced a different kind of success x