The Chat 2

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Carrying on from where we left off... .

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=319673.0

So, the last chat consisted of
W - I found a potential buyer for the house, they are viewing it tomorrow
Enabler - Have you petitioned for divorce?
W - No
Enabler - I will not entertain the idea of selling our family home without you petitioning for divorce, I do not understand why you have not done this since you made it very clear that reconciliation was not on the table in Oct
W - I have been busy

My current stance having taken advice from the board is:

I will not enable the divorce, W has to take full responsibility for her decision, she has the information and the mental capacity to make it happen if she wants to drive the family fun bus off the cliff
I will act reasonably with proceedings doing what is required of me for my best interests and in the interest of not giving W ammo for post divorce parental alienation.
I will act to legally protect myself
I am requiring her to petition for divorce before any further action after numerous 'says X, doesn't deliver'.
I am acting with love and kindness focusing energy on relationship with the kids and personal development
Completely given up trying to engage other people in my community/friends with understanding as to what is going on. It only served to make me appear like I was crackers since what I was telling them was a) too unimaginable for them to comprehend b) didn't marry with their experience of my W c) reinforced my wife's version of events that of me being abusive and controlling.
W has recruited a large number of enablers all serving her in different ways. I believe she is economical with the truth for example not telling most about her affair with another man in the village.
Despite training to be a pastoral assistant, the number of lies I am uncovering is biblical (excuse the irony).
Her narrative among others is "I'm trapped and controlled and Enabler is keeping me hostage"... .the cage door is wide open, always has been, always will be, it's your choice to fly or not.

One thing I am starting to think about is dehumanisation, how this happened and how it is impacting her ability to treat me in the way she is with little or no remorse or overt guilt.

https://www.affairrecovery.com/newsletter/founder/affair-dehumanization-and-blame

I was watching a documentary about Julius Caesar, it described how all genocides had occured on the back of campaigns to dehumanise the group intended for destruction. Typically normal people cannot annihilate other groups of people if they regard them as human, like minded individuals. This is why the Nazi propaganda depicted the Jews as rats, Hutu's in Rwanda as wild dogs. In some communications I intercepted last year and in 2016 it was pretty evident that my W affair partner depicted me as an animal/monster, her friends depicted me as a pig among other animals... .all based on what I perceive as manipulated versions of reality. It feels as though my W no longer see's me as an individual with feelings and emotions, but a monster.

The most recent lie she seems to be proliferating is that I am holding up the divorce, that she can't escape the marriage. However, I the legal mediator made it very clear the steps she has to take to get the divorce she says she wants... .apply for the divorce!     

[Enabler]

Carrying on from where we left off... .

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=319673.0

So, the last chat consisted of
W - I found a potential buyer for the house, they are viewing it tomorrow
Enabler - Have you petitioned for divorce?
W - No
Enabler - I will not entertain the idea of selling our family home without you petitioning for divorce, I do not understand why you have not done this since you made it very clear that reconciliation was not on the table in Oct
W - I have been busy

My current stance having taken advice from the board is:

I will not enable the divorce, W has to take full responsibility for her decision, she has the information and the mental capacity to make it happen if she wants to drive the family fun bus off the cliff
I will act reasonably with proceedings doing what is required of me for my best interests and in the interest of not giving W ammo for post divorce parental alienation.
I will act to legally protect myself
I am requiring her to petition for divorce before any further action after numerous 'says X, doesn't deliver'.
I am acting with love and kindness focusing energy on relationship with the kids and personal development
Completely given up trying to engage other people in my community/friends with understanding as to what is going on. It only served to make me appear like I was crackers since what I was telling them was a) too unimaginable for them to comprehend b) didn't marry with their experience of my W c) reinforced my wife's version of events that of me being abusive and controlling.
W has recruited a large number of enablers all serving her in different ways. I believe she is economical with the truth for example not telling most about her affair with another man in the village.
Despite training to be a pastoral assistant, the number of lies I am uncovering is biblical (excuse the irony).
Her narrative among others is "I'm trapped and controlled and Enabler is keeping me hostage"... .the cage door is wide open, always has been, always will be, it's your choice to fly or not.

One thing I am starting to think about is dehumanisation, how this happened and how it is impacting her ability to treat me in the way she is with little or no remorse or overt guilt.

https://www.affairrecovery.com/newsletter/founder/affair-dehumanization-and-blame

I was watching a documentary about Julius Caesar, it described how all genocides had occured on the back of campaigns to dehumanise the group intended for destruction. Typically normal people cannot annihilate other groups of people if they regard them as human, like minded individuals. This is why the Nazi propaganda depicted the Jews as rats, Hutu's in Rwanda as wild dogs. In some communications I intercepted last year and in 2016 it was pretty evident that my W affair partner depicted me as an animal/monster, her friends depicted me as a pig among other animals... .all based on what I perceive as manipulated versions of reality. It feels as though my W no longer see's me as an individual with feelings and emotions, but a monster.

The most recent lie she seems to be proliferating is that I am holding up the divorce, that she can't escape the marriage. However, I the legal mediator made it very clear the steps she has to take to get the divorce she says she wants... .apply for the divorce!     

[Enabler]

It has also occurred to me that by labeling her pwBPD I am dehumanising her. However, if that is the case I am dehumanising her to find a way to love her more and accept her behavior... .NOT to annihilate her. If anything, I feel accepting BPD allows me to accept her humanity rather than see her as some angry twisted beast.

[formflier]

I don't detect "contempt" in your postings regarding your wife.  It's obvious you are still struggling to understand how she can do these things, although I think you are beginning to accept that this is a situation that can't be "reasoned with".  

Good job... by the way... on stopping the public affairs campaign for "your version".  There may be times when you need to speak clearly and succinctly, I think those will be obvious... .and rare.

There is an interesting needle you need to thread here.  

1.  Cage door wide open... .yep... although it doesn't appear you want to push her out.

2.  You don't want to be involved with divorce... .again... .solid, she doesn't need you to get that done.  She does need you to manager he feelings about divorce (or whatever this is about).  Which is why you should back away and let her sort out her own feelings.

So... .what to do.


3.

I'm going to give you more reading to do...

https://www.gottman.com/blog/turn-toward-instead-of-away/

Here is the trick for you.  Your bids toward are going to need to be very subtle.  And when she pushes... .or wants to get closer to the cage door, be very very nonchalant about it.  There may be many days where you are neutral and don't "bid" for her.  

The long term "win" here is if the relationship calms, you stay neutral to "light" bids" and she starts "bidding" back.  Perhaps momentum can go in another direction... perhaps.

FF

[Enabler]

Hey FF, always a pleasure to hear from you.

1) Correct. I'm still also struggling to perceive a way that I push her out whilst being cognizant of how this might later impact my ability to have a relationship with my three girls post push. She has a lot of control there and will be primary carer.

2) Agree. I can't take any religious angle as she has claimed that "I don't have a relationship with god" so therefore have no moral foundation... .irrespective of whether she preaches from that pulpit. Impacts on kids, she see's herself rescuing them from me, despite no evidence of that being necessary.

3) Will read now, agree on subtly of my bids... .like dealing a small cap equity... .there's a time to show your hand and there's a time to pretend you've no interest.

Best Enabler

[formflier]

Two things I will challenge you on.

You are the arbiter of if God matters for you.  Your wife gets no vote here.

Just like you are the arbiter of if the pink unicorn in your basement matters to you.  (my goal is for you to think about the unicorn, so you can have a wry smile on your face... .when faced with your wife saying horrid things)

Also... .why cede the girls to your wife.  I would challenge you to think through practicalities, especially if it comes to you spending some cash for hired help, nannies, catered meals... .

I get it you need to preserve your time to create income.

What can you do in the next month to increase your time with the girls?  Using relationship tools to improve your r/s with them is critical.

FF

[Enabler]

I know what my relationship with God is and isn't. However if she doesn't want to listen to what I have to say she doesn't have to. I cannot force her to listen as that is abusive... .in her eyes. The shaming impact of reminding her of religious fact is enough to send her running for the hills. It's not like she hasn't gone searching for validation. She's asked 5 priests and there's more heavily annotated religious books around our house on choices, the 10 commandments and big decisions than you can shake a stick at. She knows, she just doesn't want to act. The guilt and shame are too much but so is the compunction to maintain communication with this chap. If she has ever gone LC she's never gone NC which leaves a taste of "I gave him up for the relationship"... .but she never actually did nor did she ever make herself accountable for the inappropriate relationship.

Relationship with the children is AWESOME... .but, I am under no illusion that she can crush any hard work I have put in with them in the last 18m in a couple of weeks of poison. This is one of the key reasons I am determined to not be seen to walk out that front door a second before them. That is why W will own the divorce decision when relaying it to the children. If there's any hope of a long term healthy relationship with the kids.

Alas, I have a 3hr round trip commute to London. I'm up at 5am and back around 18:30-19:00. There is no way on earth unless my W abandons the kids to envisage she would not get full custody should she seek it. I wish things were different and wish there were other options... .but then I wish I was a Doctor or similar closer to home.

[Cat Familiar]

It seems like you're in a very good place strategically, mentally, emotionally in a very difficult situation. She holds all the cards currently. It must be tough to have her claim the moral high ground and dismiss your spiritual connection considering her behavior, but alas, BPD.

One day at a time... .keep strong... .you're doing a good job.   

[formflier]

Is remote work an option?  If you have high speed internet, computer, phones, video chat... could you get it done or is your company "old school"?

FF

[Enabler]

I work on a financial trading desk. In theory it could be done but there are compliance issues we have all be completely unable to overcome despite continual efforts.

Cat, you are right and I keep waiting, watching and hoping that as my T says... .fantasy and reality collide. The web of deceit is getting more and more intricate. I only kick myself that I didn’t “get it” sooner than late last year. I have been the pillar with which to build the victim status framework around, if I talked to a villager about what I was experience... .tick, confirmation of abuse (it always got back to her), if I talked to friends, their wives would report back, if I checked her email or scraped her WhatsApp I was found out... .whatever happened I made things worse. Everything I tried to address, every accusation made, all triggered the defence mechanisms. So now, I’ve learnt by pain it’s pointless to try and shine a light on it, it’s pointless to highlight wrong... .she just has to make mistakes and I have to ensure I protect me and the kids from the inevitable fallout.

[formflier]

There is a difference between shining the light... and investigating.

I am a big fan of making sure there are no shadows to hide in.  When they do odd things, instead of pointing your finger... .kinda of be befuddled... curious... open.  Leave it to them to explain it.

If they say you shouldn't be shining a light... .or looking... .let them explain that...

FF

[Enabler]

I did the asking questions thing yesterday. More flashed the strobe light than actually pointed flood lights!

She claimed to be going for a pub lunch with parents and sister. I asked which pub showing interest. She named a pub, unfortunately the name she came up with there is only one in the country some 250 miles away in the village she went on holiday with her parents with last year... .dohhhhh!

Gets picked up by brother in-law and sits in the front, where is sister in-law?   

When she returned from said pub I asked her again and she told me a more generic pub name, scratchy with details... .suspicious

Looked in her bag and she had a big wodge of bank statements and other stuff one would put a financial summary together with.

Best bit is that it’s not the financial summary that’s holding things up, it’s the actual divorce petition. But she wouldn’t dare tell her FOO that.

She knows I know she’s lying

[formflier]

Would have been better to stay friendly, perhaps get excited and ask her to get you takeout.   

Seriously...

Either they fess up... .or you just made their deception all the more hard... .and you get some chow.

FF

[Cat Familiar]

I'm with FF. Playing dumb is one of my favorite strategies. 

[Enabler]

It was left as me being dumb... .maybe... .enabler might have smelt something fishy... .he possibly knows I’m lying... .he probably knows I’m lying... .but maybe he doesn’t

The evidence of yesterday’s “trip to the pub for lunch” is plain to see, some nice shiny spreadsheets of financials. We get to find out about divorce petition in the coming days. Pray hard this is a step too far into reality.

[Enabler]

And I mean pray... .

Actually if I had to ask for you lot to pray a prayer, I’d ask you to pray that God would wrap her in love, guide her to do what is right and give her the strength to make herself accountable for the choices she makes which will impact our whole family.

[formflier]

Will do... .prayers commencing.

Also remember... .a divorce petition is another part of a complicated negotiation.  If she actually files, the more you can come at it from a business angle... the better.

The more you come at it from an emotional angle, well... that's her game... her turf... .play yours. 

It is not your job to make this easy... .or her happy... .

FF

[Enabler]

Funny one last night... .Gonna sound odd but I notice these things now... .

I made some KFC on Sunday night for the kids dinner... .B comes home from her "pub lunch" and I was putting it in a container to put in the fridge, she has some and enjoyed it. We discuss whether I should take that or some other leftovers for lunch yesterday she says "If you leave one or the other I'll eat the other for lunch tomorrow (yesterday)".

Last night I ask if she wants the leftover chicken to which she responds "Nothing to do with me, I never wanted it and don't like it".


Just one of those What the heck moments

[Enabler]

So, this weekend has been challenging.

Friday - I got involved in a board chat that triggered me, although I wasn’t angered by the subject I felt the matter in hand was so comparable to my own I projected like crazy into the poor guy. Although I think my story could have been helpful, Skip rightly reined me in and told me to take a time out.

Saturday - I go to watch the rugby in my local. Some great guys I’ve not spoken to in a while with some very supportive wise words. I then chat to another guy who seems to be having similar issues to me although rather than looking to stand for the relationship he was excited about departing. His long term partner was over the other side of the room and the tension was palpable. So, game finishes and I’m left on my own with 3/4 pint left so end up talking to the land lady and this guys partner. After a bit of talking she starts telling me how her mum left her when she was 7, died last year and she’s been in therapy ever since. She’s very aggressive, likes a drink and her relationship is clearly very rocky... .my heart sank as it was evident that yet another one of my wife’s friends had some kind of childhood trauma and it was all playing out in her marriage in textbook fashion. I asked her if she’d read any good books about it and said to her that it was a choice by the other partner whether or not they learn... .or run. Not everyone gets that this runs deeper than just a partner arguement or difficult behaviour... .it’s almost formulaic.

Sunday - went to church, the sermon was on James chapter 4 and was spoken by the local bishop. It was directing us not to judge others and be generous in our opinions of others. It struck me that I had been generous with my judgement of my W and that had led me into living a deluded life trusting someone who was not worthy of my trust. My generous judgement had in effect blinded me to the truth. I approached the bishop after the service and said “I am doing what the bible commands, I am defying my Ws call for a divorce, standing for the promises I have made in front of god. I am praying. I am thinking generously in my judgement of my wife however every time I do I find the reality is that she was never worthy of my generous opinion and had been deceiving me.” After asking me if I had done marriage counselling he said “well sometimes you just have to get a divorce!” I actually said in response “bishop, with the utmost respects, I am angered by your advice, the bible tells us that divorce is wrong, yet here you are telling me that I should get a divorce... .my wife is surrounded by people like you who advice her to end the marriage, does this not contradict what the church stands for?” He prayed for me but had no further advice for me... .I felt hugely deflated.

When I arrived home my wife was in a good mood. It’s a sad state of affairs that even when your wife is actually being nice you know that it’s not because of anything you’ve done and likely not a function of you in the slightest. She had just seen her OM at her church and we were looking after his kids possibly so he could discuss divorce arrangements with his STBXw. My W is also “doing things” mom-wed which she won’t elaborate on, which makes me nervous.

I have a weird sense of serenity though, as if whatever hits me next will not be a surprise and that I’m mentally ahead of the ‘game’... .pfffff I mean I’ve ruminated about ever possible outcome so not sure there are that many potentials left!