dBPDstbxh telling S14 he’s going to buy him a Miata

[BeagleGirl]

Arrrrrrrrrgh!

S14 mentioned tonight that “dad’s talking about getting me a Mazda Miata as my first car”.

S14 is less than 3 months from being eligible for driver’s permit, so last week I initiated a discussion with dBPDstbxh about starting to look for a car. I was very specific about what I was looking for-practical, low maintenance, safe, good gas mileage, warranty. I mentioned certified pre-owned. I also told stbxh that I would be setting a budget for the car in the next couple months and would welcome his help in looking for options once I had a target spend.

I should mention that our separation agreement states that I am responsible for purchase, maintenance, fuel, and insurance for a car for S14 since I chose to take full financial responsibility for our kids rather than pay child support.  While it’s always been my intention to get buy in from stbxh, I get the ultimate say because I’m the one taking the financial responsibility. My conversation enlisting stbxh’s help in the car search was meant to be an olive branch because he really loves cars and wants to be able to bond with his boys over them.

I really want to overreact and say what a jerk move this is to put me in this position. Heck, I’m having fantasies of spray painting some choice words on stbxh’s car (it’s been a really rough few weeks). But I know I need to be the calm and respectful one. So I’m trying to decide how firm a line I want to draw. I really don’t feel comfortable with a Miata as a first car for S14. I prefer something safer. I definitely do not intend to pay for it. So do I give dBPDstbxh the option of buying the Miata out of the very generous settlement he’s getting from me, as long as he insures it and pays for fuel and maintenance since I will be buying S14 something more practical, or do I put my foot down and say “this is a joint decision and I don’t want S14 driving a Miata”?

Thoughts on where to draw the line and how to communicate it to dBPDstbxh?  My “scripts” are currently pretty harsh right now.
Thanks,
BeagleGirl

[livednlearned]

Thoughts on where to draw the line and how to communicate it to dBPDstbxh?  My “scripts” are currently pretty harsh right now.

It sounds like, for you, this is not a matter of cost?

Do you have a sense of whether S14 will be a responsible driver?

If he wants a miata, is there something you can leverage, like better grades or finding a part-time job, something that adds new responsibilities at a time he is being gifted a privilege?

[flourdust]

How reliable is this report from your son? My BPDxw likes to fly off the handle and rant at me for anything she hears from our daughter, without bothering to check her interpretation with me first. Big surprise - she has usually misunderstood.

It might be better to open with a more casual "S14 mentioned this ... .what's up?"

[Turkish]

 our separation agreement states that I am responsible for purchase, maintenance, fuel, and insurance for a car for S14

If dad wants to do all of that on his own dime, then more power to him.  Dad's input is appreciated but you're the one putting up the $$. Does your son know this? Can it be communicated in a validating but firm way?

Agree with you on the car... It's conceivable I could keep my Mazdaspeed3 another 7 years until S8 could drive.  No way on heck a teenager needs to be driving such a car. 

[Panda39]

If dad wants to do all of that on his own dime, then more power to him.

My SO did this frequently when his ex came up with one of her superfantastic ideas and activities she wanted their daughters to do.  He'd be like, great I don't object if you want to do that you go right ahead and take care of that. Rides to and from activities... .when she didn't drive and paying for things when she didn't have a job, meant her superfantasic fell to the ground with a thud.

Panda39

[livednlearned]

So do I give dBPDstbxh the option of buying the Miata out of the very generous settlement he’s getting from me, as long as he insures it and pays for fuel and maintenance since I will be buying S14 something more practical, or do I put my foot down and say “this is a joint decision and I don’t want S14 driving a Miata”?

Since your ex has a PD, the best focus is usually on values. It's how you communicate them that can make the difference between fueling the conflict or letting things simmer then fade out.

"You have alway loved cars, and I know the Miata is special to you, and S14 seems excited by it. You both have that bond in common and it's great to see you two sharing this together. I have budgeted $ for insurance, which will cover a much less fantastic car than the Miata. It's crazy how high insurance is for young males! My agent suggested getting S14 a cheaper car to help lower insurance, but I don't want him driving a total clunker. What do you think about you and S14 looking at cars in the $$ range. I can afford the insurance for cars in that range. Anything above that, you'll need to cover the difference or he'll need to get a job to cover it."

Would something like that work?

How quickly will your ex work on getting the car? If he is all talk, no action, then you might just sit back with popcorn and let this play out.

[BeagleGirl]

"You have alway loved cars, and I know the Miata is special to you, and S14 seems excited by it. You both have that bond in common and it's great to see you two sharing this together. I have budgeted $ for insurance, which will cover a much less fantastic car than the Miata. It's crazy how high insurance is for young males! My agent suggested getting S14 a cheaper car to help lower insurance, but I don't want him driving a total clunker. What do you think about you and S14 looking at cars in the $$ range. I can afford the insurance for cars in that range. Anything above that, you'll need to cover the difference or he'll need to get a job to cover it."

Would something like that work?

How quickly will your ex work on getting the car? If he is all talk, no action, then you might just sit back with popcorn and let this play out.

That's a great script. 

Unfortunately, dBPDstbxh is very practiced at acquiring cars pretty quickly.  We (he) went through 33 vehicles in 20 years.  Lost money on every one... .

[Turkish]

 Oh wow.  I'm still on my third in 25 years (not counting a few motorcycles). Sounds like cars are a  expensive coping mechanism/ habit.

[ForeverDad]

My first car was a hand-me-down rust bucket.  Fantastic 394 engine with compression problems, 12 MPG local, 15 MPG highway.  I got my first (and only) new car when I was 58.  Never a speeding ticket, never an accident besides a license plate light that cost me $13.50.  (It was a 1 MPH bump in a line of cars waiting to turn left.)

I had a friend who went through 3 beetles as a teen.  Another went around a small country road corner too fast and the convertible ended upside down in a creek.  Fortunately no injuries.  Frankly, though we all have near-accidents now and then, teens seem to have more than their fair share of actual accidents.

While getting him a rust bucket is unreasonable in today's world, the car ought to be relatively inexpensive, safe and not a cop magnet.  Expect an accident or two, hopefully minor ones.  I hear most teen accidents are due to inattention, distraction, a heavy foot and a bit too much testosterone.

My teen hasn't asked about a car yet, focused too much on videos and video games, but I figure that day will come all too soon.

[formflier]

Does your current agreement say you get to decide the car or that you are responsible for doing (fill in the blank)?

Do you have veto power?

I'm getting the vibe that he is pushing boundaries/intent of the agreement.  If so, I would recommend you make this a big deal... .don't give an inch.  Even it means a rewrite.

The comment about values and his history with cars is silly.  I'm assuming he did all this car shopping with your money... right?

There is a value piece here, this is bigger than "just a car".

FF

[DaddyBear77]

I really don’t feel comfortable with a Miata as a first car for S14. I prefer something safer.

No way on heck a teenager needs to be driving such a car. 

This is what I'm hearing. More important than the talk about who can and should pay for it, there's a bigger issue - you simply don't want him to have this car. That's a perfectly valid position, and if you check your feelings and you come out saying "Nope! I don't want him to have this car, I'm sure!" -  now it's going to come down to how to put this into effect, right?

Do you have legal means to force a different car (decision veto power, specific agreement on who buys the car)? If not, is this incident exposing a gap in the current agreement? Do you have a path forward to try and close that gap?

[formflier]

  If not, is this incident exposing a gap in the current agreement? Do you have a path forward to try and close that gap?

And... .as a secondary thing... .be thinking about other "gaps" this may have exposed or brought to light?

FF

[toomanydogs]

Unfortunately, dBPDstbxh is very practiced at acquiring cars pretty quickly.  We (he) went through 33 vehicles in 20 years.  Lost money on every one... .

Yikes. Your STBX sounds like my STBX. I keep cars forever.

I agree with FF and a few others who suggested that this is bigger than a car itself. Hang tight, and I wouldn't give an inch either.

TMD

[BeagleGirl]

Thanks all.

I used to joke and say "at least it's 33 cars and one woman and not the other way around", but those cars represent way more than financial loss.  I sometimes feel like his "addiction" to cars had the same effect on me that any other addiction would have on a spouse.  But that's about me, and I don't want to get that issue clouded with what is best for S14.

I really do keep coming back to the safety issue.  S14 is probably about average on the teenage responsibility scale, but I know that even the most seasoned and responsible driver can be the victim of an accident and survival rate has a lot to do with the safety features of the car.  My dad reserved the right to pick my first car (though I was the one who paid for it) and my first car was a giant hunk of American steel (1980 Dodge Aspen - I named him Jorge) because dad cared far more about my odds in an accident than gas mileage.

I texted dBPDstbxh asking to meet for a conversation:
BG: "I'd like to schedule a time to talk.  Let me know when you're available and where you'd like to meet.  Primary topic of conversation for me would be that [S14] has gotten the idea that you are going to buy him a Miata".

BGh:  "That's funny.  I did tell him it would be a good choice.  We've been watching a ton of Top Gear and it's always had high marks."

BG:  "I would like to discuss this in person."

BGh:  "OK.  Be a few days.  Crunch time at work."

BG:  "That's fine but I'd like you to give me a day and time when you can meet.  I'd like it to be before my custody time starts on Sunday because I want to be in agreement on how to handle the topic if it comes up again."

BGh:  "OK.  I'll let you know."

So I'm pushing for a face to face meeting and preparing myself to use the tools.  I have no reason to suspect that S14 is misrepresenting what dBPDstbxh has said.  He seemed pretty excited about the idea and provided details of how dad said they could take the Miata out to visit my dad (2000 miles away) and grandpa would love it because he had a Miata years ago.  And "dad said he'd look for one with manual transmission so I could learn to drive stick".  I didn't react (at least I don't think I did) or probe when he was talking about this.  I acknowledged that grandpa had a Miata and he enjoyed it and took the topic of learning to drive manual transmission and talked about my experience.

I checked our agreement and the section assigning me financial responsibility for providing a vehicle for S14 to drive doesn't say anything about who chooses the car, but the section on Major Decisions calls out purchase and operation of vehicles and since we have joint legal custody we have to agree or follow the mediation procedure outlined.

Unfortunately that doesn't address dBPDstbxh's "right" to fill S14's head with promises and visions of driving a Miata across country.  Sigh.  I need to learn how to not let these things drain my energy.

[formflier]

FF says your son needs to pick and shop for his car.  Both parents have veto power.

Like most things, the car is a byproduct and the experience of shopping, selecting, discussing is the real life experience.

I would resist any thought of him "being handed" a car.

He should earn most of the money that goes to the car.  Preferably all of it.  That being said, I'm ok with money for grades,money for chores... etc etc. 

I'm currently going through this with S17.  He has a family beater he drives around and has looked and gotten close to buying several sports cars.  I've made him run the numbers and he wouldn't be able to afford flying lessons this summer.

He keeps deciding that the beater is ok.

I've made him do all the calling, emailing and follow up questioning.  S17 and I do lots of work on family cars and he is likely to be a good mechanic someday. 

He is enrolled at community college in a "powerplants" course where he will be a certified jet engine mechanic in a couple of years.

Anyway... .focus this away from the car an onto "process"... .link "process" to values.

Oh yeah... .

Well... I still have my first car.  Muscle car thing.  But when it came time to go to college, I knew I didn't want to take my muscle car to college.

So... .nod to BG here.  1980 dodge aspen station wagon.  Fake wood panels.  I spent $600 on it.   

Good memories.

FF

[ForeverDad]

Make sure it's red.  I hear police focus on red speedsters.  That might help a teen avoid a lead foot and fast curves.

Likely you pay the teen driver insurance, who pays the speeding tickets, accident costs and raised rates?

When I was 18 or 19 the light turned green.  The Camaro-like black car ahead of me burned rubber.  Then I turned left.  A policeman was behind and followed me and lectured me about controlling my car.  There I was, driving my mom's rusted green Oldsmobile, wearing a tie, I wasn't out joyriding.  No ticket but I never knew if he believed us.

[BeagleGirl]

Well, I think the Miata discussion is closed.

I met with dBPDstbxh tonight to discuss.  I had clued him in that I wanted to discuss the fact that S14 seemed to have the impression that dad was going to purchase him a Miata, so he did some "homework" before we met.

He asked S14 ":)id you tell mom that I was going to buy you a Miata?" {Cringe}

and told S14 "Mom is the one who will be buying you any car you get, so I don't really have a say.  That's between you and her."  {Double Cringe}.

and "You should tell mom it would be a good car for her to buy you."  {okay, I have to remember that he has disordered thinking}

While he didn't take responsibility for having told S14 that he would buy him a Miata, the things he related to me that he had said to S14 were probably enough to give S14 that impression (not that dBPDstbxh understood that, nor did I try to make him see that). 

I gently reminded him that we have joint custody and that means we need to agree on major decisions like what vehicles S14 purchases/operates.  I also reminded him of a few areas that I feel we need to let S14 be the kid and not involved in our issues like:
Not asking S14 what he said to mom or telling S14 what to tell mom.
Not disclosing our financial arrangement or implying that one or the other of us "has no say".
Not discussing car options with him before we have agreed on those options.

He handled the discussion pretty well.  That's not to say that he won't keep doing stuff like this, but he seems to be on his best behavior at the moment.