Retaliation Disaster

[MrRight]

We've had fights before in the past - but for the last several years I thought I had mastered my anger and impulse to retaliate. Until today.

It started over a trifle - in my view, as ever. I did something I shouldnt have (went out to shop for some cream!) without informing her. She raged at me when I got back - threw things at me while I was washing the dishes - took the cream and smashed it into the trash bin, making a huge cream mess that i had to clear. And she went on raging - I gathered my senses as I felt the impulse to hit back get stronger - but it was no good - I just snapped - went for her, pulled her hair and slapped her on the head and then withdrew.

Of course - that gave her all the ammunition she needed - I'm a violent animal etc.

That was 6 hours ago - we've kind of settled things - Ive said Im sorry etc. But I feel awful inside - she's got a moral victory over me - I almost think she pushes and pushes to get this response - so she can turn around and blame me.

I'm planning to get out of this marriage but for practical reasons now is not the right time. I need to keep the peace somehow but it's hard.

[juju2]

You are in a safe place.

I had to remove myself when it got so toxic.

I wasn't healthy, couldn't see my part.  I needed help, for codependency issues.

It's ok.  We grow and change at our own pace.  Take what you like and leave the rest.

My life gets better when I get better.  Sometimes slowly, very slowly. 

Take good care of yourself,  j

[PeteWitsend]

Sounds like a bad situation, MrRight.

If I were you, I'd just leave when "the rage" starts.  That's what I've done a number of times.

I was advised to add something like "I'm going for a walk, because I can't deal with this right now.  We'll talk later."

... .if you can muster that, more power to you.  Personally when I start getting raged at over nothing, I find it hard to be the least bit conciliatory toward her, and I just get my shoes on and go.  

Removing yourself from the situation helps, especially since there's almost no reasonable outcome or resolution to the rage/dysregulation.  

It sucks not being able to relax in your own home, but you may need to keep your car keys on you, wallet, cell, etc. handy at all times.  on bad nights lately, I sleep in clothes, so if she comes in the room raging, I can get up and go.  

Maintain the strategic initiative, so to speak.  

[Chynna]

Mr. Right ~ I have very often felt the same way: my xbf orchestrated, instigated and pushed his bad behaviors just so he could turn these situations into 'my problem'.  I completely understand! Hope your day has gotten much better... . ~Chynna

[lighthouse9]

Mr. Right,

I'm sorry to hear about this really tough situation. I want to echo PeteWitsEnd - you might want to get into a habit of exiting before it gets like this. In a past relationship, I had an ex that would provoke me in what felt like an effort to get me to be violent. At one point she egged me on to slap her and I finally did. I felt sick - she starting smiling and laughing hysterically. It scared the crap out of me, but I knew it was all she needed to say that I abused her (even though she had done worse to me before and would do way worse later). From that situation, I learned to take a walk and cool down, and when going through nonsense with my now STBXwife I exercised the "take a walk" option often. I even kept two neighbors on standby to let me into their house and informed them that I might need to make a quick exit and chill out for a bit. They knew I was trying to avoid being provoked into anything that could give her ammunition, even raising my voice.

Also, I had a go-bag packed. I never needed it, thankfully, but it gave me some security to know that it existed. Change of clothes, sleeping  bag, some cash, some food, even stuff for the cat in case I felt like she had to come with me. Call it backpacking with BPD But like Pete said, you might want to get in the habit of having a few key things on you. Hopefully you never need to exercise these options, but what's worse, an hour away to drive around the block or an hour feeling your anger rising and your integrity slipping? Good luck to you man, this stuff isn't easy.

[MrRight]

Thanks all for your replies.

Things have settled down.

In the past I have tried walking out to get some time and space and she went after me every time, physically getting in front of me. I also feel if I walk away - when I come back - there will be still be the issue of me getting down on my knees.
The worst thing is I advised my 15yo son to contain his anger when she is railing against him as I am starting to fear he will explode on her one of these days - with all the nonsense he has had to tolerate over the years. He wasnt present when I went for her but he knows what happened. I need to talk to him about that as I previously told him I'm in control of my emotions.

Just two days ago I sat and listened sympathetically for hours as she told me how her younger sister has had all her parents love etc etc. I start to feel sorry for her - until she starts raging once more making life impossible for the two people in the world she says she loves.

Thanks for the advice - hoping for a peaceful day.

[Cmjo]

Hello MrRight,

I really understand the place you must be in, once you are in the trap of "hitting them back" they have brought you to their level and it adds to the confusion of who is right or wrong, you stay entangled in the mess and the FOG.

it is impossible for us to comprehend how they seem to willingly egg us on to violence, who would do that? Its not logical. They will use any means to make us snap, does tha then make them feel better about themselves?

Has anyone found their BPD partner later accepts that they were provoking and what they said to us was horribly cruel?

My BPDh does not remember what he has said. Or denies he said it. Ir de ies that he smiled and laughed when he saw me losing control with him. At that extent of raging he does seem to blank out.

Just understanding the illness has helped me not take the comments personally and to leave the situation.

[MrRight]

Hello MrRight,

I really understand the place you must be in, once you are in the trap of "hitting them back" they have brought you to their level and it adds to the confusion of who is right or wrong, you stay entangled in the mess and the FOG.

it is impossible for us to comprehend how they seem to willingly egg us on to violence, who would do that? Its not logical. They will use any means to make us snap, does tha then make them feel better about themselves?

Has anyone found their BPD partner later accepts that they were provoking and what they said to us was horribly cruel?

My BPDh does not remember what he has said. Or denies he said it. Ir de ies that he smiled and laughed when he saw me losing control with him. At that extent of raging he does seem to blank out.

Just understanding the illness has helped me not take the comments personally and to leave the situation.

Yes she will sometimes, after a bout of raging - come to me later and say sorry. Then she can be all sweetness and light - like yesterday we went out for the day - a trip actually - I didnt want - as it involved me driving a huge distance - something I hate - but I swallowed it to keep the peace. So she was happy the whole day and bearable company - except when after the long drive I suggested a toilet stop before we arrive at destination and she said "dont ruin my day". Then when we arrived and she promised we would first find a cafe where we would eat plus use the toilet she changed her mind and said we will find one later - and she looked at me and said "dont ruin the day for everyone with your toilet addiction b/s"

you see - that sweetness act - she can never maintain it - sooner or later she shows her true self.

[ortac77]

Hello Mr Right


You snapped after being provoked - there are probably numerous times that you haven't snapped?

Now I don't believe anyone would defend physical violence but I do think it pays to remember we are all human and all have our limits. Of course leaving the situation and 'cooling down' is the right answer and I have had to do this many times but I defy anyone - even with all the tools we have available to never 'snap' or retaliate - pwBPD are absolute masters at goading - in fact their behaviour (and I'm not convinced that they have no control) can be very abusive. It takes a lot of strength to always be able to de-personalise the things that they do and say.

It does not help that

1, they say sorry (maybe if they recall what happened) but sorry is a word and means nothing without action and we know its only until the next time.

2. they don't recall or mis-remember the event in which case it can rarely be discussed in any meaningful way to bring any resolution.

You talk about 'her true self' - thats the bit that I think is difficult because I don't think they have a 'true self' - actually I don't think they have any idea of who they are and that seems to be the nub of the problem - its a vicarious life lived through others who are expected to take all the responsibility and blame.

Take care of yourself and please don't beat yourself up because you retaliated on this occasion, do something nice just for you

In Peace

[MrRight]

Thanks Ortac97 - some good points. Yes you are right about not having a true self - before I knew she was a pwBPD, after 2 years of living with her - I accused her of not having a stable personality - she took that seriously for a short time - but never pursued the possibility.

Yes I usually do not snap - I consider myself to be a complete and stable character in the way she is not - which is probably why I am able to endure her. Many guys would have walked out, child or no child, or retaliated with brutal force long ago.

The worst of it is I have run into a dead end in my relationship with her. I usually try to avoid sex - but dont deny her if she comes on strong for it - which she will do occasionally. However - the last time I went against all my feelings was a disaster - the first time I have not been able to perform, well barely - pathetically so. She finished up saying I should go and see a doctor. She doesnt understand that sex is something that flowers between two people in harmony with each other.

[Red5]

Yes she will sometimes, after a bout of raging - come to me later and say sorry. Then she can be all sweetness and light -

... .like yesterday we went out for the day - a trip actually - I didnt want - as it involved me driving a huge distance - something I hate - but I swallowed it to keep the peace. So she was happy the whole day and bearable company -

... .except when after the long drive I suggested a toilet stop before we arrive at destination and she said "dont ruin my day".

... .Then when we arrived and she promised we would first find a cafe where we would eat plus use the toilet she changed her mind and said we will find one later - and she looked at me and said "dont ruin the day for everyone with your toilet addiction b/s"

you see - that sweetness act - she can never maintain it - sooner or later she shows her true self.

Afternoon MrRight,

Wow, I can certainly relate to your posts,

I too have fallen for that cornered and provoked scenario, it has happened on about three occasions in the last eight years.

One face slap, a push, and a grab, no not proud, sometimes the pw/BPD just goes too far, and when you are at the end of your strength and endurance, you will snap, when all your coping mechanisms have been utterly exhausted.

I am not proud of this, and I have to say the three events/incidents happened before I was aware, had knowledge of BPD.

There was one event however, about the turn of the year, that I removed a door from is hinges trying to stop u/BPD wife from sending a very terse, and destructive “text” to someone, and of course in doing so I gave u/BPD wife many hours of “material” to use forthwith.

She was only bluffing turns out, again trying to provoke me; as she did not even send that text as she so threatened, I have to say I really hate BPD verses technology/social media, a very BAD combination for sure.

What you wrote about your trip, I too am facing the exact same scenario this weekend, I am even currently in a down cycle with u/BPD wife, even after some thirty something days of relative “calm”… now the boom is coming down again, lots of moving parts this week, and through the weekend, and I know none of it will end well, I can feel it coming on, this impending disaster just as I felt this past Sundays events coming on…

I do dread it.

Sometimes it is as if we are dealing with a petulant teenager, a spoiled rotten brat, who will destroy any and all to get their own way, to make their point, and to thusly ENSURE all non’s are thoroughly punished for non-compliance… yes, the pw/BPD does love to punish.

Hang in there MrRight,

Red5

[MrRight]

Thanks for your comments Red5 - I suspect there are many more nons who have snapped in the way I did but dont say - just like I suspect many of the nons posting on here with kids - never admit their spouses have laid a finger on their children.

I have to say I really hate BPD verses technology/social media, … a very BAD combination for sure.

You are so right about technology. The amount of trouble she has caused for the family because she sent a text or email to, a school, for example - firing off an emotional email - and regrets later. She also lives by her mobile phone when I have to go out - or bites all her nails off and drives me crazy if our son does not text back immediately when he is at school. A match made in hell for sure. I wish I had been born 30 years previously to spend so many years with a pwBPD before mobiles, before the internet. Here's an example of texts she will send to me if I dont reply quickly.

- I love you. smiley plus hearts
- pls text back
- getting worried, why are you silent
- pls pls text back or call
- why are you doing this?
- this is typical of you - so selfish
- you freak - Im going to call the poilce
- you're pure evil, evil murdering ass!

etc etc

Not easy living with this

Like you I dread all trips - days out. I do the driving - I have been attacked in the car many times because of taking a wrong turning for example, or not driving bumper to bumper with the next care while we are in a traffic jam. Packing before a holiday away is a nightmare and the return.

[ortac77]

Hi again

Well I have certainly snapped in the past - as you say it can be almost impossible not to and can happen before you know it! It certainly did not help when I did, its like being taken down to their level and in a perverse way of course gives the pwBPD what they want even though fighting can never make any sense!

I have to agree with the social media and instant texting - it is a minefield for someone with BPD - I too get the string of texts (increasingly nasty) if I don't reply instantly. My answer is to ignore them, after a while they cease to have an effect. Of course when those texts are sent to others who do not understand the condition that causes the pwBPD more trouble - mine has really managed to alienate family and friends by senseless and cruel texts or postings on social media.

Red 5 - yes a petulant teenager though often it seems more like a toddler with a tantrum! Emotionally of course that is where they are at the time, angry child - boundaries of course help and I am trying and working hard on being consistent in maintaining mine, at the moment this seems to be making matters worse, no surprise really because I will not 'play the game'. Sure its hard when you are told that you are a B*S***D - or that your family are all evil and other choice insults but slowly I am learning to ignore this and accept that I am who I am - not perfect but generally liked and respected.

Hang in there and as I said before don't beat yourself up for reacting on this occasion, embrace your humanity and accept we all have limits of tolerance

In Peace

[Cromwell]

She made my blood boil, always chose to do it when I was driving, I realise now its because it felt a safer place for her to do it, knowing I had a car to control and had to pay attention to that.

But anything physical beyond her throwing stuff around, which was very violent, would have been day X of no-return.

Im a bit taken aback by a lot of responses, but thats just my perspective that once youve went hands-on in a r/s, it doesnt matter about the apparent apologies, it is a certain stage reached that wont ever be forgotten.

Im 100% with you when you say its a disaster, I just wonder if this was the first time or if it just another recent event. I cant imagine what would have happened if I did the same, but I dont think id ever be able to sleep again without one eye open for retaliation or at best, would have been arrested which would have been preferable.

Even if it appears that the boundary is being pushed to provoke this, its not good enough to say that its ok because our BPD partners appear to be wanting us to act this way. Im not trying to be "holier-than-thou" to anyone who has taken a physical approach, because I havent done so, im saying that if I had, it wouldnt be something id search for excuses for, it would have been the signal that something catastrophic has just happened in the r/s.

best wishes

[Fian]

I really think you need to remove yourself from the situation when she is trying to provoke you, or even if she is just talking to you in an inappropriate matter.  If she responds poorly to you walking out, then make that the battle you have, not the battle to control your emotions when she is getting to you.

You can expect an extinction burst, but push through it.  You will be in better control of yourself fighting that war, then letting her treat you like trash when she is trying to provoke you.

What we are talking about here is boundaries, and this site has a lot of information on setting up boundaries and what to expect.

While the point of boundaries is to protect yourself, not control your wife, you can probably expect her behavior to improve towards you after the extinction burst.  She hates you leaving, and if you leave when she mistreats you, then she will mistreat you less to avoid what she hates.

When it comes to physically blocking you from leaving, I think others on this board can give you better advice than I can.  I imagine if she blocks you for too long, you may have to contact 911.

[formflier]

Fian's point about boundaries is spot on.

I would encourage you to review this article on bpdfamily about boundaries.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

After reading that, what ideas to do you have about a best way to go forward?  Anything surprise you in the reading?

FF

[MrRight]

Hi Cromwell

thanks for your comments.

I think the other people who replied would agree with you - they're just trying to make me feel better.

Retaliating physically - esp against a woman - must be a low point and it is. I'm recovering though and making sure it does not happen again.

[Cromwell]

Hi Cromwell

thanks for your comments.

I think the other people who replied would agree with you - they're just trying to make me feel better.

Retaliating physically - esp against a woman - must be a low point and it is. I'm recovering though and making sure it does not happen again.

Just realise that you put yourself in a very compromising situation by doing it and it wont change her, so is not only pointless, but potentially very damaging for yourself. The next time she might feel more compelled to take a weapon, you dont want this scenario with someone who goes into psychotic rages. If it happens please just leave the house, dont drive away, but let her calm down. I used to do this and a few hours later a total change of character when she would phone. Sometimes id get voicemails saying "dont ever come back", ignore them, by the next morning or lunch time id get a call, there would be no mention of the craziness that had just happened it was "are you coming up, I was just making lunch". and everything would be "fine" again until the next moment.

Yet, staying there and fighting could have led to far worse scenario, at the least you end up stockpiling some horrible memories. You can forgive yourself for it, anyone who has gone through it knows we are only human and the provocation and andrenaline hit is hard to control, but control is a must, you have to be because she wont take any responsibility for it. Your partner has an excuse - or at least will make good use of it - you are expected to be the one who makes the sound decisions, even if it means leaving her at that moment. I used to find it hard to leave because id worry she might harm herself if I did, whilst she was in that rage, but by staying it just prolongs and adds fuel to the fire, get out as soon as the signs of it start is my advice.

best wishes.