Letting it roll off for a day or two

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Late to discussion, but my two cents:

Sometimes we're so used to avoiding JADEing that we omit necessary information.

When I leave the room, I tell my husband that I'm doing the laundry, feeding the horses, using the restroom, etc. It's kinda annoying to give him that much info, but it avoids the abandonment thing, which is what I think your wife felt.

So, a quick "gotta take care of my needs" and you're done. If she makes it an issue, not your problem.

[Cat Familiar]

Late to discussion, but my two cents:

Sometimes we're so used to avoiding JADEing that we omit necessary information.

When I leave the room, I tell my husband that I'm doing the laundry, feeding the horses, using the restroom, etc. It's kinda annoying to give him that much info, but it avoids the abandonment thing, which is what I think your wife felt.

So, a quick "gotta take care of my needs" and you're done. If she makes it an issue, not your problem.

[Enabler]

If she makes it an issue, not your problem.

But it is his problem, she’s made it his problem by emotionally wounding him. As an emotional caretaker, a role FF knows he has to adopt and does every time he uses different tools etc, he is staying outcome orientated. If over informing to avoid abandonment or ultimately disappointment vs expectations then is over-informing not a good thing or productive tool?

A stitch in time saves nine!

[Sunfl0wer]

But it is his problem, she’s made it his problem by emotionally wounding him. As an emotional caretaker, a role FF knows he has to adopt and does every time he uses different tools etc, he is staying outcome orientated. If over informing to avoid abandonment or ultimately disappointment vs expectations then is over-informing not a good thing or productive tool?

A stitch in time saves nine!

Making decisions to best avoid the fallout of another = enabling dysfunction

Making decisions in line with ones values and to be a model of decent behavior = allowing the other person an opportunity to rise up to a higher level. 

Important to provide opportunities
(We cannot control anothers emotions)

[Enabler]

Giving appropriate disclosure of our intended actions with some appropriate level of granularity is providing a fair opportunity for the other person to react accordingly. In the case of communicating with someone we know or at least highly suspect has an emotional sensitivity disorder, slightly more information is appropriate.

Would it be reasonable to intentionally withhold known information about ramp access from a person in a wheelchair knowing full well that they are anxious about their ability to enter a building? No. I personally would endeavour to provide appropriate information I had available to me to minimise their anxiety. Would I provide the same level of information to an able bodied person, no. I am aware that this person has additional needs and seek to provide where I can.

Going the extra mile out of kindness and compassion for our SO is what we can do to give our SOs the best opportunity to formulate the fairest picture of our intentions. We’re advertising our intentions in the clearest possible way.

Sometimes it feels like we’re encouraging people here to be d!cks, giving less information that we would otherwise provide. “I’m going to the car... .you work out why from the myriad of suspicions you have about me”. A relationship with a pwBPD is tough and it does involve effort, would we be using the same FU mentality with someone we know to suffer from aspergera or autism?

[Notwendy]

I think we did encourage FF to explain why he went to the car. He stated that he didn't say the reason- his back was hurting - because a reference to his disability could trigger a nasty response from his wife. By not stating why he was leaving, he left that to her to figure out.

The discussion was that- by trying to control the possible outcome of her response, he was actually trying to control her reaction. We can't control another person's choices. So the suggestion was to tell her, not to leave her to fill in the blanks.

How could she emotionally wound him? I think she might have made a snarky comment or possibly been angry, but is this emotionally wounding? I don't suggest we become emotionally cold, but I also think we need to consider why we should feel emotionally wounded by a snarky comment. I do understand this feeling, but it helps to not be so reactive to these comments. Sometimes they are just emotional dysregulations. The person making the comment may feel better after releasing some bad feelings and seeing it in that context may help to not take it as personally. This isn't about being cold-hearted but less reactive to drama- which can decrease the drama in the relationship.

[Sunfl0wer]

Once we start changing our natural behavior to avoid “setting off” the other person... .it can become a slipperly slope... .an endless rabbit hole.

I rather my values guid my behavior... .

Not another persons ability to add discomfort to my experience via dysregulation.

There is not one answer here, imo.

FF had many options and paths that are consistent with his values.  Different levels of expressing he was leaving to simply leaving... .

He choose one.
He may want to choose diff next time... .
Or not.

Imo... .
All options where he is being guided from his values vs anothers ability to dysregulate... .all gonna be fair options for everyone.

[Enabler]

If FF was not emotionally wounded in some way or other he would not have written a post on here. In some way or other he was emotionally affected by her reaction. My guess is that FF was wounded because his expectation was that after a steak dinner he would be cut some slack. That didn't happen.

By not referencing his disability i.e. "my back is hurting" he withheld important reasoning information which led her to come to (total supposition) another less rational conclusion... ."well you didn't tell me that, how was I supposed to know". Had he given FFw the additional information her irrational conclusion would have been her problem to deal with and not something for FF to JADE. She gave him the nasty response regardless of which route he chose, but by omitting important information could be seen as culpable for her errant conclusion.

Not JADEing after the event is well evidenced and makes sense. But to give someone (who is prone to extreme and irrational thinking) a reasonable chance of coming to a reasonable conclusion of our actions and intentions there needs to be a reasonable amount of stepping stones. I would not advocate telling my W that I am leaving for work at 5:30am, I'll be driving to the station and then catching the train if every morning I do exactly the same thing. It would not be rational for her to expect anything different. HOWEVER, if this was not my normal routine and I typically worked at home I would tell my wife... ."Tomorrow I am going to the London office for an important meeting with the board, I'll be gone at 5:30. I'll drive to the station and catch the train". There's no need for her to have to guess. That's reasonable. If she were to call me at 7am ranting at me asking where I was, my response would be... ."I explained this last night, gotta go, love you".

FF's fear of one reaction led him to plug one hole only to open another. I'm just advocating being clear concise and provide all reasonable information first off. The ball is in her court and any response is her business.

[Sunfl0wer]

If FF was not emotionally wounded in some way or other he would not have written a post on here.

Idk why one would need to assume a wound on FF.

Surely he can speak for himself so not gonna go there.

What if he is simply strategic and that is why he posted?

Or what if he posted to compensate for the lack of intellectually stimulating reasoning from his wife.  At least here at BPDF... .he has a chance of getting something through to someone, negotiating on his thoughts and can recalibrate his adjustment to his irrational home life world... .thereby bringing his wife a continuously “sharpened” version of himself.

Heck, he could have even been bored and felt like engaging in the community here for some social satisfaction, !

Idk... .
I’m sure there are infinite reasons one could make up.

Interesting tho the idea of reacting from a place of “wound” surfaced.
Maybe I was hearing wrong tho.

[Notwendy]

I agree Enabler- I think the posts here concur that he should have told her. There were two decisions to consider:

He doesn't tell her because there is a history of her reacting to discussion of his disability. By not telling her, he avoids her reaction. The result is that she made her own assumption and got upset with him. This did go against his expectation of the evening going well and he was possibly disappointed.

Another decision would have been to tell her why he was going to the car. If the reaction he was trying to avoid happened- she makes a mean comment about his condition- then he would have to deal with that.

Seems like a no win situation and from the standpoint of whether or not FF's wife would get upset and he could be disappointed, either decision could possibly lead to that. So what was the one to make?

Seems the conclusion is to choose #2: why?

#1-- FF is avoiding information with the hopes of avoiding a hurtful comment from FFW. His reason to avoid it is in attempt to control her possible response to what he says, and in turn avoid feeling hurt from it. But it is about avoiding feeling hurt by trying to control her reaction. This is not about whether he is right or wrong in doing so, but about which is more effective: controlling another person or controlling ones self.

#2: Give the information. It is the truth. His back hurts. That is a fact, and not an opinion. If there is to be any judgment about it from FFW- that is up to her, and he can't control it. But he is stating the truth and not avoiding it. If this is consistent with his values- being truthful and not trying to control- then at least he is right with himself about it. She may or may not have reacted, but it would be up to FF to decide how to deal with his own feelings.

Sunflower touched on an important idea. The situation involves a person with a disorder- and we should have compassion for people, but when we violate our own values, we diminish ourselves in a way in an attempt to manage the other person. When faced with these types of apparently no win situations- our values can be a helpful guide.

[Sunfl0wer]

Idk... .
Way I see it... .
Giving a nuclear dose of thought to whether to go sit in a fricken car cause your back is hurting... .

Imo
Validating the invalid
Crazy making behavior

I wouldn't do that crap.

I wouldn’t expect anyone else “should”

Imo
It IS however... .an option.

NOT
The only or best path

The best path is kind to everyone involved (based on my own values)

Imo... .in that moment... .
Maybe being kind to his back was his focus or such
(Engaging in crazy making thoughts literally DOES exacerbate pain, blood pressure, etc)

Is that wrong?

Maybe others think it is.
... .I’ll back away now... .

[Notwendy]

FWIW- I think a lot of issues come from making meaning out of facts. We all tend to make meaning out of things but it helps to look at the fact, and also the meaning.

It took me a long time to realize I have no control over the stories someone may make up about something I said or did. I would JADE, try so hard to explain what I meant, or what I said and those would turn into circular arguments.

A common one for my situation is making meaning of my being busy or distracted. That becomes " she is ignoring me, doesn't like me, doesn't care about me". I could have done all kinds of caring things that day but once this story starts, it is hard to stop it. But if the accusation isn't true, then it isn't.

I think these interpretations are linked to feelings and feelings feel like facts to someone with BPD. How many times have we been wrong about our assumptions? I know that I tend to take things personally when they are not and I have to cognitively think things out.
However if someone is very disordered they can come up with some pretty outlandish accusations from a fact. At some point, I think we have to consider the truth in an accusation, and if it is not true, then judge it as so. We are all going to make mistakes at times, but checking in with our own values helps us guide our responses.

The only fact I can think of here is that: FF's back hurt. He could state the fact to his wife. Her interpretation isn't something he can control.

There is the possibility of clarity on his part. He can talk to his wife and say that his back hurt but he was afraid to say it because he didn't want to bring up a touchy subject. I am sorry that this caused confusion. Then leave it at that, no JADE no money talk and how she reacts is up to her. The clarity is for him- he stated his truth but he can't change her thinking.

[formflier]

Good discussion... keep it up. 

For clarity's sake... it had been a while since any outlandish texts have come from my wife.  While I didn't look far enough back in my text log (I use google voice) to find the last "crazy" in text... .I went back for a month and couldn't find anything even "remotely" objectionable.

So... .there are benefits to having a more "stable" relationship and I suppose there are downsides as well.  When "crazy" shows back up.  I think it is more shocking... .unsettling because you aren't "used to it".

So... when there is an "episode" I will reach out here to help put it context (among other things).  Not that her reactions (even in this case) are my fault or responsibility ... .yet I do have to be an improving steward of my relationship skills.

One of the huge benefits of this forum is to have a group of people that understand my story... .and my reactions... .ask questions and make suggestions and share what has helped them.

Huuuuuuuuuggggggggeeeee  help.

1.  Babyducks and the suggestion of a super succinct SET... .and move along. 
2.  Notwendy and what she learned about "not WOE"... .being authentic.  (this is the kind of "strategic thought" that I've been trying to focus on)

Others brought up thoughts of enabling dysfunction, emotional wounds ... .

Anyway... .my thoughts on navigating a BPDish relationship are that I need help to "adjust the swing of the pendulum"... .knowing that I'll go too far one way... .and then eventually too far the other way.

In this case... I likely took boundaries and avoiding invalidation a bit too far.  Perhaps in a few months I'll give up too much information on something...

Anyway... .I'll try to get back here later today with further details in how this has played out

FF

[Notwendy]

FF, I think it is "normal" to waver back and forth over the line of too much and too little. I don't think we reach a destination of getting it completely right, but learn and fine tune.

As to your disability triggering your wife- I wonder if this triggers abandonment fears. I've mentioned before that I had difficult pregnancies and during this time, my H interpreted my being less energetic as not being interested in him and rejecting him,  and either got angry at me or ignored me back. I wish I had known what was going on at the time, because to me it appeared as if he was being cruel at a time when I was vulnerable. But he was acting out of his own feelings, not the reality at the time. I was not rejecting him at all.

I observed this between my parents when my father got ill. If he was unable to jump up and do something for my BPD mother, she assumed he was not doing it on purpose to hurt her and responded by raging at him. This also appeared very cruel to him at the time, but to her, she was in victim mode. She didn't see his situation only her own hurt feelings. I've also heard this distorted thinking from her when speaking about me as a baby. She is convinced I spit up on purpose like I was some mean baby plotting to ruin her carpet or blouse. These are insane interpretations, but they are based on some feelings that were triggered in her.

However, we can't control these interpretations and WOE to avoid them doesn't do that. I think the best we can do is stay true to our values as best we can.

[formflier]

I wonder if this triggers abandonment fears.

I would say this is part of it and paranoia is mixed in there as well.  Also, one of the "core" things that my P has instructed me on about my wife is that telling her she is wrong... .or situations where she is wrong... ."I need to imagine her with bubble wrap all around here... .and tread carefully"

I can't really rank those, but I consider all of them.

1.  The wrong thing:  I've been around her FOO.  Most arguments are about who is wrong or right (not solutions) and when people are wrong... .it doesn't end there... ."how could they... ?" and then various other judgments that essentially "show" that the "wrongness" is an indication of all sorts of character flaws and evil intent.

2.  Paranoia:  That I'm not really disabled and could work "if I wanted to".  That I have been able to trick the VA doctors into 100% permanent and total rating and then used my same "trickery" skills to convince Social Security that I was disabled as well. 

You see... .all of those people are "secular" and therefor they don't know what they are doing.  "Christians" can see through what I'm doing... .and if "i'd just admit my sin"... .I could get on with my life... .after all it's "just" sin... why not repent of it.

3.Abandonment:  My wife doesn't express this, but I'm positive it's there.  Imagine being a SAHM for a lot of years and having a guy provide... .and now he is not (actually just providing less)... .that's got to be scary for anyone... .add in BPDish or other PD type stuff.

FF

[Red5]

Sometimes it feels like we’re encouraging people here to be d!cks, giving less information that we would otherwise provide. “I’m going to the car... .you work out why from the myriad of suspicions you have about me”. A relationship with a pwBPD is tough and it does involve effort, would we be using the same FU mentality with someone we know to suffer from aspergera or autism?

99,

I will pitch a few more Harry Truman's (dimes~10 cents/man hole covers ) into this bucket,

As the Father of an Autistic Son who is thirty-one years old, and functions at about a 5-7 year olds level, .and as well (obviously) married to a high functioning BPD wife & step mother.

... .it is "never ending", this giving more or else less information…

In the case of my S31, .not only do I "overly explain" things for him, so that he can understand in a basic way, I also add extra stuff, to keep his mind and thoughts occupied, so that he does not wonder off, or escape my peripheral if we are out and about, ie' grocery store, department store, hardware store etc',

And I too; also and concurrently watch what I say, or else I may trigger a never ending tirade of questions, at the very moment that I need to be concentrated on what is going on, checking out at the cash register, pulling out of a parking space, merging into traffic, or interacting/talking to another person, ie’ a sales person in the suspect/subject store, even my u/BPDw… I am very adept at “fast forwards”, “redirections”, and “side-liners”… when it comes to lovingly and compassionately dealing with my S31’s autism while out in the public.

That said; I am "conditioned to do this"... .and of course, I do this with my u/BPD wife also,

As in... .I have to watch what I say or I will trigger, and then I am caretaking not only my S31, but u/BPDw as well, whilst trying to get through the grocery store aisles… or whatever we may be engaged in at the moment, all the while and always trying to avoid yet another confrontation, melt down, or whatever you want to call it.

It is exhausting,

Many times, while out and about, if I “stop” for a moment to look at something, u/BPDw will continue on, and then quickly be out of sight, then I will HAVE TO immediately stop my “looking”, and go and find her, and if I don’t, she will be “angry”… yes, angry… keep in mind that most times I have my S31 with me, and all the while leading him along, and redirecting him to “keep up”, so that I can reconnect with u/BPDw, and quickly, or she’ll get mad… sheesh!

Sometimes, when I cannot get her back in my sight quickly, I will text her, and its 50-50 or less if she’ll respond.

She will ALWAYS be “snarky”, and say things that would piss a “normal Man” off… but Red5 is a caretaker, so I just take in on, and stuff it away, with all the rest.

I am always on alert, watching, observing, anticipating her, and as well my S31 when we are “out” together.

Insert yet another “exhausting” here.

And I can concur, if I were to say something like, “Babe, my back is d-u-n done, I am going to go out and sit in the truck, and I am taking S31 with me ok”… it’s about a 90% for sure thing that she will say some smart A$$ thing back to me… and most times as I run it through my klingon battle stations computer (brain), And the result of this thought process is “just let it go”, not a hill worth dying on today.

My opinion, I think it’s pretty much a crapshoot how these things will go, you can do good things (steak dinner), as in deposit good credit in the emotional bank, mistakenly expecting that you/we, the non, should enjoy a few hours of respite due to our good deed, or action, but NO, that’s not the way it goes, one perceived slight, ie’, leaving the checkout line to go sit in the car due to sacroiliac non mission capable status, and then resultant in; it’s time for the non to be punished for his insolence… for leaving the checkout line, and not paying for incidentals, even though this is standard operating procedure, ie’, hanging out in the last chance aisle looking at the latest issue of The National Enquirer, and waiting to pay for said incidentals when the shopping is declared done and completed by subject pw/BPD.

Sometimes you win, sometimes you don’t.

As for me, Red5;… I always “over notify/inform”… as I am conditioned to do this as I wrote above.

As several have written here before, I just say what I am going to do, and I do it forthwith.

Damn the torpedoes!

Hey… my back hurts, I am going to go and sit in the truck, and I start “walking”.

“Sit in the truck” means she’ u/BPDw is cleared hot to continue shopping without me, I’ll wait for her, and I won’t be mad, as I am chilling and off my feet now, ie’ she can connect the dot’s on that one!

As far as $$ in the world of Red5, we operate out of a joint “slushy fund”… the “fun account”… this account is NOT tied into any other $$ accounts, so that savings, bill paying and all of that is fire walled, and pad locked... .we don’t ask permission, but when its MT, well its MT… and then I go and knock off the local Piggly Wiggly … (no , .just kidding .

So, I am now sitting in the truck with S31 listening to the Alex Jones show …

*Will u/BPDw be “mad”… yup, and so what.
*Will u/BPDw give me the what for on the way home, and then after we get home, and for the rest of the afternoon, & evening… yup, and so what.
*Will my aching back feel better, maybe… and GOOD for me!

Tomorrow is a new day, live and learn…

I have a great story about Christmas shopping back in 2016, which was one of the “big ones” that initiated my search for answers, resultant in bringing me here to BPDfam to begin with.

Ya’ll have a nice day !

Red5

[Notwendy]

Red, I gotta hand it to you for managing a son with autism and a BPD wife. I think you are correct that some of the skills are similar. The frustrating part is that you are most likely the guardian of your son and so have some control over some decisions, if not his behavior. Your wife, although disordered is a legal adult and you have less control.

I get the losing your wife in a store. Taking BPD mother to the mall feels similar to taking a small child to the mall. If my attention wavers, she can wander off and I have to stay focused on her.

I laughed at your Piggly Wiggly comment. Don't get too wild in there!

[formflier]

Fond memories of shopping in Piggly Wiggly while I was growing up.  I often run into people that can't believe a store is really named that...

FF

[braveSun]

Fond memories of shopping in Piggly Wiggly while I was growing up.  I often run into people that can't believe a store is really named that...

I miss shopping at Piggly Wiggly actually! There was one nearby where it's now a Walgreen's and it's part of the changes my neighborhood went through over time. It was a good store.

FF, I read through this thread, and I'm sorry you found yourself between a rock and a hard place. And right after a nice dinner!...

Happens...  

Given the history between you two, I cannot say what the financial deal might have been. From another angle I want to touch another point.

I am in a long term relationship and I know that it's normal to pass from a moment of 'being romantic' to a moment of 'just life as usual'. It's part of the deal, and for some unexpected reasons, it always grates at me a little when comes the pivot moment where things go back to the usual groove, sort of. I can understand the 'roommate' feeling your wife mentioned for sure. I've had it many times. I mean in BPD language you can add the expected verbiage and emotional load for sure.

In regards to you walking out to the car without texting or saying it was a need for you to do that, I am wondering.

Did you think about why you actually did not feel like giving her that information? Could it have been coming from a feeling of extra vulnerability from you?

Reading through the various comments on your post I went through different emotions and points of views. I thought about the fact that I do, sort of manage my emotions so that I don't give fuel to the fire, so to speak. Is that superseding the need for me to be authentic? Good question. I can see that I have been 'trained' to not share controversial information.

I also like the idea that giving relevant information is not the same thing than JADEing. That we can get into giving too much or too little information. More so I noticed lately, I might invalidate my spouse when I avoid letting her know of my own vulnerability while it's important, and she actually knows if I feel hurt. Sort of she picks up that I don't trust her to be loving with me.  I can see in BPD language the whole logic board cranking up to fill in the gaps.

Going back to your story I wondered why you didn't just text or call her to let her know why you were taking off to the car.

Could there have been a pattern of her taking off back in the store for more stuff she needed, and than you found yourself alone, left to do your own thing?

I thing these little pivot moments do have a way of revealing our vulnerabilities to each other.

Silence. Silence.

Do you remember FF after your dad had just passed, she didn't want to go first, than she turned around at the last minute, went along with you and your kids, and the end result was that you had a nice family visit with your mom and your entire family, as your heart had desired?

I wouldn't be the one to suggests that you should trust her more because I believe there is an art to it, and it is a very personal choice. I think aloud that you have all the rights in the world to do what feels best for you in all circumstances. If my back would be hurting, heck, I would be cranky myself!...

FF, you've been there so much on these boards for so many people for so long, it makes sense to think you have a bunch of us now following your posts, thinking of you, and reflecting all along with you on this.

Warm regards to you, and I hope you can do something nice for your back!

      

[formflier]

Did you think about why you actually did not feel like giving her that information? Could it have been coming from a feeling of extra vulnerability from you?
 

Going back to your story I wondered why you didn't just text or call her to let her know why you were taking off to the car.
 

Big picture:  I share about 10% of the medical information I have with me.  Another way of saying I share very little.  Lot's of history there... lots.

Over time... .I'm sure I will start to share a bit more...

There wasn't a lot of thought put into not sharing about the medical part... .I just don't.  Not quite as strict as finances... but I don't give medical information to people that aren't trustworthy with it... .if my wife happens to fall in that category... .her choice... .not mine. 


I don't think this changes the tenor of the story... .but it can be common place for me to send out texts like this below... .that are "just information"... .no response needed or expected.
 
Below are texts I sent after we started shopping but before I went to the car.  If you remember, once I got to the car I was faced with a dilemma about which door she would come out... and I was pretty sure it would NOT be the door we went in.  So... .trying to do an "acts of service" (my love language)... .I placed a call.  She seemed fine. 

I have no idea if she read the texts... .although I have to assume she saw them when she started texting me.  The texts from her showed up... perhaps a minute after our call.

texts below

I'm getting milk I'm over next to the milk


 I am by the self-checkout line


 I'm heading out to the car


So... nothing unusual about those texts... .from other times we have shopped or done things where we were "together... .but apart for a bit"


FF

[Notwendy]

You may have not done anything out of the ordinary, but it touched on her underlying resentment. I don't propose you change your financial arrangement. She's demonstrated she isn't upright with money when she does have access to the funds, and this is the natural consequences.

That doesn't mean she can't have feelings about it.

 You're a dad, so you have been in this place- you give your child a fragile toy and he breaks it. Then he says " buy me a toy just like it" . You say "no, you broke this toy" ( the natural consequence). The lesson: ownership comes with responsibility". Your teen spends all her allowance. She asks for something. You say"no" you spent your allowance already".

Good lessons, good points, but is the kid happy about it? Do they say " yes Daddy I am so happy you said no to me" or are they upset and even resentful? ( I will bet the latter having witnessed a few tantrums and pouty teen age moods)

And what do you do when you "fix" their moods? You take away their opportunity to self soothe. So you let them have their moment.

A pwBPD has difficulty regulating their emotions. That doesn't mean they can't learn how to do this better. I understand Enabler's question about being insensitive to the disability, but "fixing" someone's feelings can add to their inability. We have to consider our own intentions and values. I don't believe FF set out to be cruel and hurtful and in the grand scheme of things this isn't a big hurtful action. So she got irritated. It's her discomfort, let her handle it.

I am conditioned to be a "fixer" and it isn't easy to let go of that. It can feel cruel and insensitive to me- but I have learned to rationalize it. I check with my own intentions. I think everyone has unintentionally ruffled someone's feathers or could do something better, but my intentions are not harmful or evil. If someone takes them that way, I can't fix that for them. I have to let them be with it. It is scary at first- to have someone accuse you of being the worst person ever when they don't get things their way, but also staying focused on the goal of letting someone learn to self soothe helps endure it.

 

[babyducks]

The thought that occurs to me as I read through this thread is that we, as the more healthy partner have better, more nuanced communication skills.  And that we want to stay in the middle of the road with our communications

One size does not fit all.  One communication approach can yield various results.

I think there has to be fluidity in the nature of the response and reactions.   It will never be perfect.    But honest seems like a more attainable goal.

[formflier]

    But honest seems like a more attainable goal.

And... .less thought involved. 

Although in this case I didn't put a lot of thought into not saying anything, going forward I can add a few words that will give context to my actions.  If she does odd stuff as a result... or says odd stuff... .I'll cross that bridge when/if I get there.

FF

[braveSun]

Big picture:  I share about 10% of the medical information I have with me.  Another way of saying I share very little.  Lot's of history there... lots.

Over time... .I'm sure I will start to share a bit more...

That's what I thought.
 

There wasn't a lot of thought put into not sharing about the medical part... .I just don't.  Not quite as strict as finances... but I don't give medical information to people that aren't trustworthy with it... .if my wife happens to fall in that category... .her choice... .not mine. 

I wouldn't share too much either.

What strikes me in your text is that you are focusing at the 'medical' information. Perhaps because looking straight at the feelings associated to that are a bit, well, difficult to move around.

It's interesting because while writing my comment I was focusing at the 'feeling' information, not the 'medical' part. I meant your vulnerability at the time. You didn't feel good. You had to go in the car, etc... It's good to notice if you had that feeling. To not overlook it.

Below are texts I sent after we started shopping but before I went to the car.  If you remember, once I got to the car I was faced with a dilemma about which door she would come out... and I was pretty sure it would NOT be the door we went in.  So... .trying to do an "acts of service" (my love language)... .I placed a call.  She seemed fine. 

You responded your usual way. It all went good the usual way.
Yet, you had to take care of your painful back. It was not an exactly 'as usual' scenario there. You were in a place of hurt. Needed empathy yourself. There's not much you could do from there. Your choices were limited and you followed your code of honor. You did well in that respect.

So... nothing unusual about those texts... .from other times we have shopped or done things where we were "together... .but apart for a bit"

That's where I'm heading with my comment. After the nice meal, it looked like you two were in a nice place together, and the shopping came as an after thought, on the way back home.

There things got a bit out of the nice range of feelings. I see your wife turned to those thoughts about being like roommates. Maybe the nice feeling got lost somehow in the big store shuffle. Happens.

Since you two have been in a relationship for a long time, there is not much newness there. You have it pat down. Money issues are also a common theme in long term relationships, so I will skip that part for my purpose now.

There seems to be a point that your wife did touch for both of you, even in her off the wall way. You two did have a nice moment together and things got blurred at the store. 

It happens a lot in old couples, no worries. Just that when one thing leads to another, there isn't enough nice times around...

Here is an odd question.

Have you thought to make an agreement with yourself in the future that if you'd be asked to stop at the store as an afterthought in a case like this, that you'd propose something that includes keeping your nice feelings and that's it. Gauge accordingly. Give affection. Validation, etc.

-   'Babe, I liked so much that nice time we've had.
     I know we don't have too much of those sweet times lately.
     I'd like to keep things simple and relaxed for us right now and
     continue to enjoy ourselves.'

-   'But I need to get this and that now. I've been waiting for us to get out
     to stop by the store for a while.'

-   'OK. Can we go there on (day/time of day) instead?

-   'Nah. You always expect me to wait, bla bla bla and now it can't wait.

-   'Allright. My back hurts a bit now too. I'm ready to settle for a nice
     evening at home. I can do x min (x items) for now and still have in
     in me to continue our nice time at home. (Validate the nice time again,
     or the accomplishment you celebrated). Meet you at the x door
     in x min.'

Nice touch, nice smile. If it's valid for you, if you still have it in you, naturally.

Than, whatever she does, you've shared your feelings in some way. If she doesn't respond nicely to you, than once at home, you can still take care of your back, etc...

I guess my question is, if you tried that approach, what % intimacy (or peace) you think you'd be experiencing?