What next? back here 10 years later

[hangingon]

Hi All,

I found this forum a long time ago when my DD27 was a teen and I was struggling to understand her uBPD and deal with her behaviors. The information and support I gained here was valuable then and even more so now.

Quick history: My DD27 began having extreme mood swings, intense emotions, and unstable relationships when she was 12. This behavior included cutting and other destructive acts. At one point when she was 14 she was admitted to a psychiatric facility for 72 hours with a diagnosis of acute adjustment disorder and sent home on meds. She had years of multiple different medication and psychotherapy to manage her condition and moods. Psych initially diagnosed her with bipolar Type 2 but after a year it was changed to Borderline traits. She saw a therapist for 3 years who also felt she has borderline traits.  the therapist worked with both of us to understand the traits, and saw me separately to help me learn new strategies for dealing with her. As she got older and matured, she learned to recognize her extreme moods and worked on better ways to manage her emotions, but lost many friends along the way, and today still struggles with these things.At 18, she stopped taking her meds and going to therapy.

She was able to eventually go to off to college, but withdrew suddenly 2 months before graduation.  She came home and was very shaken but would not tell me exactly what had happened.  At the time she was engaged, and she and her boyfriend lived with me, both got jobs and paid rent while saving for a place of their own.After a year, the moved out and got their own place, only to have her come back 3 months later, screaming and crying that he was controlling her and cheating on her.  The relationship ended shortly after.  Within a month she was dating another guy who she met through work. He was separated (that's what he told her) and they started spending every night together and within a few months she moved in with him. She idolized him saying he was the most mature and loving man she had ever met.A year later she called and told me that she was pregnant which honestly shocked me because she has always said she didnt want kids.

In November of 2015 she had my grandson, who I love with all my heart. I was involved quite a bit the first few months and spent alot of time with them giving emotional support and helping with the baby. As time went on, the baby's father became more controlling and manipulative. In response my daughter became more emotional and unstable.  There have been years of all-night arguments, physical altercations, spying, emotional abuse, just horrible dysfunctional behavior on both sides. The relationship has been unravelling slowly for months.  My DD27 and I have always been close despite everything and she has been talking about leaving this abusive relationship for months and finally did in February of this year.

I told my daughter that I would be happy to assist her in rebuilding her life.  Our agreement was that she could stay here until she gets a job and saves enough money to get a place of her own. She and my grandson have been here a little over 2 months and it has been quite a transition.  I have been alone for 4 years now, have a demanding full time job and cherish my privacy and peace. I love being able to see my grandson more and be a bigger part of his life but living with this emotional rollercoaster is exhausting.  Now that she's been under my roof for almost 3 months I see the old borderline traits showing up again: extreme emotion, overreacting, black and white thinking, and new sexual behaviors and risk taking. Complicating the situation is the fact that the baby's father has been over here on multiple occasions banging on my door, screaming profanity at my daughter (in front of their son), following her in the middle of the night, watching our house, and more. Hours after an argument he will be at the door crying that he's sorry and that she is the love of his life.  He's a unstable guy.  I've had to ask him to leave my home many times.

Since my DD has been home she has revealed that she has survived sexual assault twice: once in college by a professor, and once by my grandson's father. Im still trying to process that and all of the emotions that go with that. Ive encouraged her to seek counselling but she says she doesn't want me to pay for that and her insurance won't cover that.  Meanwhile, she is already seeing someone who she met during her relationship with my grandson's father.  She has told me that she is having unprotected sex with him and worried that she has an STD. This is hard for me to understand, since I know that I taught her better.  She is obsessed with this new guy and talks about him all the time.  I remind her regularly that she just got out of a bad relationship and she should be focusing on healing from that and being a Mom, but she is not thinking straight.

Another complicating factor:  my grandson is 2.5 years old, non verbal, and most likely autistic. He's been assessed by the state and therapy has been ordered but has not happened because his father does not want to admit that his son might be autistic.   This poor little boy is going through a huge transition and his parents can't be in the same room without fighting.  He is getting shuttled between parents and they are focused on tearing down each other rather than reassuring him that he is loved. He is a sweet sensitive boy and my heart breaks for him. It is so hard to watch all of this.

I'm emotionally drained with all the daily drama. I have so many conflicting feelings: anger, concern, resentment, confusion, disappointemnt  and so much more. I try my best to validate and use SET with her, I'm seeing a therapist, set aside time every day to something for myself (read, walk, paint). But I'm weighed down with this deep sense of sadness for my daughter and my grandson. It was hard enough to deal with a child with BPD, but having a grandchild immersed in it is so much harder.

Im sorry for the long post, but if you have read this far, thank you!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Feeling Better]

Hello hangingon,

I just want to say how sorry I am to hear about what you are currently going through, my heart goes out to you in this difficult situation. I understand that you want to help your daughter get back on her feet, that’s what we do, us moms, always there to help and support our kids. But at what cost? You are experiencing so many different feelings at the moment, no wonder you are feeling emotionally drained.
I am so glad to hear that you are seeing a therapist, do you have any other kinds of support?

You say that you try to be validating and also use SET, both good tools that you are using.

 What about boundaries, do you think maybe you need to put some good boundaries in place whilst your daughter is living with you? See to the right 
under the TOOLS heading Communicate Boundaries & Limits.

I hope that you are able to work something out so that you don’t feel so weighed down with everything. Keep posting, we are here for you and to offer support to you 

[wendydarling]

Hi hangingon

I'd like to join Feeling Better welcoming you back, to this safe and loving community after 10 years!  Here's a big warm hug from me

You know well it's hard to step out of the drama, especially when it's in your home these last months, it's hard right now, I'm sorry.

It can help to have a very simple plan 1,2, 3, to keep focus, move it on, gently, small steps. What do you think that may look like for you?
You
Boyfriend
Daughter
Grandson

I'm sure bluek9 will be by sometime, her GD JJ now 6 was non verbal, her DD BPD, autistic, both living with her.

So glad you are here, together we make change happen, for us.

Hang in there, with us we are walking with you  

WDx  

[wendydarling]

Hi there hangingon

We've been wondering how you are, are you ok? 

WDx 

[hangingon]

Hi Wendydarling, thank you for checking in on me, it helps to know others care.

Im taking things one day at a time.  I'm seeing a therapist for emotional support, establishing boundaries, and coping with all of these emotions. Some days I feel like I am drowning in a sea of my daughter's emotions, other days I can see above those emotions, let her own those emotions, and focus on my struggles more.  I am very sympathetic and empathetic, so it requires daily practice and focus not to get caught up in her drama and emotions, and to not be exhausted by the sheer intensity of her emotions.  Harder still to carve out time and space where I am not constantly bombarded with the crisis of the hour, from her perspective. 

One piece of good news: my DD succeeded in getting a new job.  She was very excited to get the offer last Friday and she accepted and starts June 4th.  I played up her accomplishment in hopes that would bolster her self esteem which is very low. The bad news:  this job requires some international travel and my DD has a 2 year old (50% custody), has only been on 3 flights (domestic), and still a bit naive.  I worry that the travel is going to be too much for her to handle but I'm going to have to let her figure this out on her own. Selfishly, I want her to succeed in this job so she can move out and support herself.  Living with her has really taken a toll on my home and my physical, emotional, and spiritual life and I need my life back.

The most difficult aspect right now for me to tolerate is her attitude and relationships with men. She just left an abusive relationship with baby's father 3 months ago, and since then has had another relationship with a different young man who she swears was "the love of her life". This guy paid her alot of attention and they spent lots of time together.  She idealized him and spent all of her time talking and thinking about him when she wasn't with him. Long story short, he dumped her and ended the relationship this weekend.  This just 2 days after she tells me that she screwed up and thinks she may be pregnant with his child (thank God we have confirmation today that she is not preganant). At any rate she collapsed in a heap of crying wailing and anguish.  she was crying buckets of tears, sobbing on the kitchen floor while her 2 year old son is trying to climb in her lap. Over the top drama.  Lots of crying and complaining that every man she ever loved abandoned her. This extreme emotion just drains me AND I get so tired of hearing the same thing over and over. I had to leave the room to walk outside and get away for a few minutes.  Of course I felt guilty but I just can't take it any more. More drama yesterday, her moping around the house all day about this boy while I am at work. Last night she asks for a hug, cries on my shoulder ( I listen and validate without further comment), and then she pops up and says "I have 2 Tinder dates this weekend!"

All this leads me to realize her priorities are all messed up. Instead of getting counselling and working on herself and her issues to determine why she gets herself into these relationships, and make herself and her son a priority, she is going right out to get herself into another relationship. I'm so frustrated with her attitude.  I also noticed that she is dressing in a more revealing way. Her judgement, when it comes to the opposite sex, is not solid at this point. I've suggested to her that she get some counselling before entering another relationship, and to my face she will agree, but her actions show opposite.  She has a very real fear of being alone.

Another disturbing revelation: late Sunday night she told me that she is having "bad thoughts about herself". When asked for more details, she told me that she was thinking of cutting herself again. I asked her if she would contract for safety that night and promise that she would not cut herself and she agreed. She made it through the night unharmed Thank God. We repeated the promise last night, she initiated it, which at least tells me that she recognizes these thoughts as unhealthy, is admitting them out loud.  But she desperately needs to develop a larger support system and coping skills.  I've repeatedly encouraged her to seek counselling to do that. Everytime I mention it there is some reason why that is not happening. I simply think it is not a priority for her.

Her emotions are very dysregulated, and its concerning, scary, and very hard to live in the same house and watch this unfold.  The best I feel I can do is be there to listen and establish boundaries for myself so that I don't drown in her emotions.  I have implemented a cutoff of communication with her at 10 pm every night so I can relax at the end of the day and get some sleep so that I can function at my job.

Im sorry for the long post, but thank you so much for checking in.  This forum, and the support given here, makes a huge difference in my daily life.

[qcarolr]

Hi hanging. I have also returned today. Just had this group on my mind. I first was here in 2009. My DD will be 32 on Monday.

I so get your frustration. My DD got caught up in heavy drug use and that really unleaded her unstable emotions in very aggressive ways. When she and bcarevimo kept talking about the wonderful life they could have in CA I bought them plane tickets. They ended up stranded in AS. We are choosing to help financially until dh retires next year.

Oops. Gotta go help dh with a project. I will get on my laptop later tonight. Hang in there.

Carol

[qcarolr]

Hi Hangingon, I will try again. So much easier on my laptop than on the cell phone.

I share your frustrations with having a daughter and grandchild living with you, especially after you have had a chance to live without the day to day worries you experience now. There is always our concern for the grandkids too and how much impact the drama is having.

My DD32 still struggles with many BPD symptoms. A disruptive one for her is the fear of abandonment and being alone. She still has little awareness of this when in a panic. This so gets in the way of going deeper in a relationship. There is some improvement. I am really proud of her and her bf sticking together for the last 18 months. It has been a trial for both of them. They each bring mental health issues to the relationship. They are really working at refocusing continuously on their little guy. He is 6 months old on Monday and a really good baby. DD is able to put his needs first most of the time. This is growth for her compared to other two kids. Gd12 (she'll be 13 in one month) has always lived with my dh and I. Gs10 was in foster care at 5 months and adopted by the foster parents at age 2. I see him on his mom's facebook. There is no direct contact.

The bf/daddy has more trouble with knowing what to do - this is his first kid - or even seeing what is needed. I have seen this on our visits. He really struggles to tolerate the normal noise that goes with being a baby. They both do love him and want the best for him. It is being able to have perspective on each situation to see past their own individual needs. Highly unstable emotions makes this so hard for them.

DD always being in some kind of guy relationship, even when very dysfunctional, has been so hard to take. I think I blamed a lot of her 'stuff' on the drugs. She has been clean for about 15 months and she still melts down on the phone with me -- often when bf is gone for longer than expected. I still talk with her about every day - some are friendly calls, some are panic attacks. The plus is that she has more awareness of when she is in a panic. She is able to hear me when she calls to gain a broader perspective -- even see it from another person's point of view. This is growth, maturity, to me.

Sometimes it is hard for me to share the 'whole story' about DD and our family. I can get in a more negative place easily and forget to talk about the positive things. I tried to give the whole story here. Hope I did not jump around to much.

Im taking things one day at a time.  I'm seeing a therapist for emotional support, establishing boundaries, and coping with all of these emotions. Some days I feel like I am drowning in a sea of my daughter's emotions, other days I can see above those emotions, let her own those emotions, and focus on my struggles more.  I am very sympathetic and empathetic, so it requires daily practice and focus not to get caught up in her drama and emotions, and to not be exhausted by the sheer intensity of her emotions.  Harder still to carve out time and space where I am not constantly bombarded with the crisis of the hour, from her perspective.

This sounds like you know what you need to do and how hard it is to do it. You already have many strategies for coping, communicating, relating with you daughter without losing yourself. Keep coming back -- I love long posts.

carol

[Daisy123]

Hi Hanginon,

I just wanted to say how sorry I am you are having to deal with this! It is just so much, and now a new, little life has come into the picture making it truly complicated.

It looks as though you've taken measures to take care of yourself! Good for you, therapist, your 10 p.m. shut down time to make certain you have enough rest. What about those days when the drama of BF kicks in, do you find additional time for yourself on those days?

Our loved ones with BPD have those super hard days when we get caught up in their drama is just plain taxing! Those days zap all the energy from us. I hope your life allows you to make space for those days. I have to call in sick and just recoup or stay in my pjs all weekend long to recover.

I've been attempting to use DEARMAN, validation and SET with both my DD20 and husband when attempting to problem solve.

My number one goal is to get my DD feeling better. Her depression is so severe, she can barely get herself out of bed. We are going to her to her medical doc and psychiatrist to see if we can address this. I also have asked her to look at her intake of nutrition and see if we can make inroads on that-she is a junk food junkie.

Once she is feeling better, my hope is to get her into a PHP with DBT this summer. Her therapist, bf, husband and me have all been working to nudge her. She has lost it a few times where police were called in last month. Then she just lost it with her BF and attacked him.
These outbursts have scared her into wanting treatment. What holds her back is her fear of no energy to get there.

I used DEARMAN several times to get her to consider higher levels of treatment.

Describe:
Use specific words to describe to the other person what you want, explaining yourself through language as clearly as possible.  Leave little question as to what it is that you want or need.  Practice clarity with your words.

Express:
Don’t shy away from being expressive.  Part of learning how to effectively communicate, while still being intentional and mindful, involves using facial expressions, tone of voice, or gestures that capture the content and importance of your request.  There is a delicate balance to be struck here.  Work towards finding the happy medium of being expressive while maintaining a sense of self-control.  This can be tricky for those of us who have a tendency to get lost in or overwhelmed by emotions.

Assert:
Work towards finding your own balance between asserting your needs and staying away from aggressiveness (this includes passive aggressiveness).  Be matter-of-fact as you assert your point(s).

Reinforce/Reward:
Be sure that the other person understands exactly why they should respond to your request.  Remind them of whatever positive outcomes would come from this request.  Other people want to feel good about complying with requests – not like they are being coerced into meeting demands.  Be careful not to offer rewards that are unrealistic or that you cannot come through on.  Be true to your word.

Stay Mindful:
Don’t allow distracting thoughts or intense emotions to cloud your thinking.  If the other person responds with defensiveness or hostility, don’t allow yourself to engage with the emotional intensity.  Stay on track with what it is that you are asking for.  If you respond to the other person with your own defensiveness or aggressiveness, your efforts will be sabotaged – you will probably not get what it is that you are asking for (at least not in the long-term).  Rather than responding with intensity, practice opposite action, radical acceptance, and mindful breathing.  Maintain your focus.

Appear Confident:
If you have trouble believing in the validity of your request, so will other people.  Imagine yourself as confident, competent, and deserving of what you want or need.  When you take yourself seriously, others are more likely to as well.  Practice self-validation on your own to cultivate this skill.

Negotiate:
When our ideal requests are not met, there is often a way to meet halfway – to find a solution that is “good enough” without compromising our values.  A big part of negotiation is about respecting other people’s limits.  It’s not just about you, after all.  When the other person believes that you are capable of negotiating, they are much more likely to see you as a reasonable person.  A positive consequence of this is that you are more likely to have successful interactions with this person in the future.  Win-win, right?

Win/win is so important. If I can point out that there are so many benefits to both my husband and daughter, they seem more open to what I ask for.

The times when things are most out of hand is when I use loads of validation.

I hope this helps,
Take good care of yourself-us parents seem to be expected to be super parents-that puts a great deal of stress.
xox

[hangingon]

Qcarol and Daisy123 - thank you for your posts. Sounds like all of us experience many of the same challenges with our children.  While I wish that was not the case, strength comes from sharing our struggles here with others who truly "get it".

Qcarol - as you can tell one of my daughter's biggest challenges is her romantic relationships, and I think until she does some work she won't realize her part in the dysfunction and ultimate failure of them.  Much of her identity and self is tied to the men that she idolizes. Eventually they will say or do something that she doesn't like and its downhill from there. My heart simultaneously hurts for her and is frustrated by the repeated cycles and failure to examine her contributions and learn from them.  Now with my grandson in the picture there is even more reason for her to be careful with these relationships.  In some ways it seems that she just can't help herself.

I too struggle with talking about his situation.  Most of my extended family does not know the whole picture.  I don't talk about it with most of my friends.  I do confide in my sister, therapist, and partially confide in my boyfriend.  Its an awful lot of drama, worry, fear, confusion, resentment and sometimes anger to carry around on your own.  For my mental health I must vent to my trusted friends and my therapist. I really identified with what you said about getting in a negative place and forgetting the positives - that is true for me as well. I make myself focus every day on at least one positive thing, otherwise I would drown in negativity and drama.  One continuous challenge I have is "staying in HER head". Im so empathetic and I feel her pain in being misunderstood, then I feel guilty, and want to comfort her, and before you know it I am rescuing her.  I've taken steps in the last 2 weeks to separate myself from her and let her own her emotions.  I am retraining myself to listen (hours every day), validate, empathize, and then try to somehow state "what are YOU doing to do about that" or "what can you do about that"? I get a lot of "I don't know" but I have stopped even making suggestions to her because she has to learn how to come to terms on her own.

Daisy123 - I really feel for you in your situation and hope that your DD can get into treatment.  I applaud your support of that and count it as a positive thing that she wants to get into treatment. My hope is that she will follow-through. I don't believe that my DD wants to even go to therapy at this point.  Thank you for the tip on DEARMAN, it sounds like a more detailed version of SET which I try to engage with my DD. I notice the "Express" piece, specifically the tone of voice, and facial expression - my DD is very sensitive to those things, and if my voice or expression does not match my statements (or she thinks they don't) it totally negates any validation or discussion I am trying to have with her. Frustrating at times.

My DD starts her new job in 5 days - we shall see how that goes. I truly hope it goes well and she is a good fit there - goodness knows she needs all the confidence she can get.  She says every day that everyone is jealous of her fancy new job, yet I wonder if she is more pleased with their approval of her job rather then the fact that she has a job herself. She has always sought approval from others. My other concern is that she has been laying around the house on the days when she does not have her son, crying all day over the last boyfriend who she claims to have loved liked nobody ever before. She hasnt been sleeping and still not eating much. I am concerned that the stresses of a new job will affect her even more. She may have some element of depression. Yesterday I asked her if she had a good day and she said no, that she had just cried all day thinking about the old BF. When I asked her if she could think of one single thing that she could do to help herself feel better she said no, there's nothing, I just want to lay here and cry. I could not think of anything to say so gave her a hug.

An ongoing worry that I have is my grandson and his transition with all of these changes. He spends 5 days at a time with each parent. At 2 years old, he is very attached to his Mom.  I have been very involved in his life since he was born, and babysit every two weeks. Usually when Mom leaves I can distract him with an activity and hes fine after a few minutes, but in the last month, he cannot tolerate her being out of eyesight. He clings to her and wants to be touching her every minute.  If she leaves he cries constantly until she returns. He's nonverbal as well which makes things a bit more complicated.  Mom taught him and myself sign language and he understands spoken language so I use both to reassure him that Mom will be back and we get to have special play time when she is away.  Thats not working right now, but I pray that as he gets a bit older he will tolerate separation better. The other challenge is getting him back on his schedule when he returns from staying with Dad.  His Dad doesnt care about bedtime (10 pm at HIS house, 8:30 here), regular meal time, nap time or discipline. All that is undone and needs to be restablished every time he returns here so that is an adjustment every 5 days. I remind myself that this is NOT my problem, but my heart aches for that sweet little boy.
 
That's enough venting for me -thank you both for posting and keep it up - I look forward to the support on this forum every day.