How to stop something from happening: she seems more and more interested in me

[Shawnlam]

I didn’t know exactly which section to post this in but I figured those in this section have more experience in dealing with what I see coming.Without going into my whole story ,I’ve been separated from my ex for over a month now .Ive been feeling a lot better and understood that getting back into any relationship with someone with BPD is not a good idea.With that said we have both met a few times after the break just to catch up since we were friends prior to our relationship.( in other words we are going back to before ) or at least I’m trying to .It seems these last two weeks some red flags are coming my way.I received a few texts like “I’m thinking of you too much” , “ just wanted you to know I’m thinking of you”.I got one that said baby , so now I’m getting worried? She told me she’s in therapy , and she’s understanding much more about what she is and why she does things which is great ,BUT
How do I encourage her,be friendly and nothing more without ruining her progress or present great emotional positive state? She even mentioned last weekend that her previous ex’s were not husband material and could never raise a family.She did mention in her goodbye text to me I was husband material oddly .I overlooked this comment on purpose during the dinner just to not have to go down that road “ pretended I didn’t hear it”. Any tips on how to very carefully tip toe out of my predicament while always making sure I don’t hurt her?

[pearlsw]

Hi Shawnlam,

Have you ever had a chance to take a look at this tool? SET

It seems like this could help.

I’m no expert on this, but perhaps we can practice!

If I flub it perhaps someone more astute will come along and offer corrections!

Let’s take a quick look: (quoted from that page)

Support

Support refers to an initial statement which indicates the loved one supports the person with borderline personality. It is a statement that begins with “I” and demonstrates concern and a desire to help. It can be anything that establishes a foundation for the relationship or interaction: “I want to try to help you feel better,” “I care about you,” or “I am worried about how you are feeling.”

The support statement is meant to reassure the BP that the relationship is a safe one, and that her needs matter even during this difficult moment.

Empathy

Empathy refers to communicating that the loved one understands what the BP is feeling, and focuses on “you.” It is not a conveyance of pity or sympathy, but instead a true awareness and validation of the feelings of the BP: “I see you are angry, and I understand how you can get mad at me,” “How frustrating this must be for you.”

It is important not to tell the BP how she is feeling, but instead put her demonstrated feelings into words. The goal is to convey a clear understanding of the uncomfortable feelings she is having and that they are OK to have, thus validating her feelings. Without such a statement of empathy, the BP may feel that her feelings are not understood. It is important to use feeling words, as in the examples above.


Truth

Truth refers to a realistic and honest assessment of the situation and the BPs role in solving the problem. It is an objective statement that focuses on the “it” — not on the subjective experience of the BP or Non-BP. Often the BP may seem to be asking, or demanding, something impossible, not taking an active role or responsibility in resolving the issue, or even presenting you with a “no-win” situation. The truth statement is meant to clearly and honestly respond to the difficult demand or behavior of the BP, while placing responsibility appropriately: “This is what I can do…,” “This is what will happen…,” “Remember when this happened before and how you felt so bad about it later.”

How about this?

Support: I care about you.

Empathy: I see you are feeling positive feelings towards me. I understand that the therapy is making a difference.

Truth: I am very interested in us being friends like we were before.

Would anyone else like to help us here? All corrections, thoughts, discussion, suggestion to try other tools welcome!

warmly, pearl.

[Radcliff]

Excellent questions!  I'm really quite impressed that you've asked for help with this.  Breaking up with compassion, and attempting to re-establish a friendship, requires some tools.

Just to make sure I'm on the right track, can you describe a bit about what you valued in your friendship before?  How long were you friends before you started a romantic relationship?  How long was the romantic relationship?

What kind of boundaries do you want around the new relationship, in terms of how often you see each other, what circumstances you see each other in, how often and how you communicate, etc.?  Do you want to have her as a friend-friend while you are free to pursue romantic relationships with others?  I want to make sure I fully understand your goals before offering any advice.

WW

[Shawnlam]

We knew each other for 5 years prior to our 6 almost 7 month relationship.We met at my old employer where she still works .The friendship we had before was mostly going to dinner here and there,shooting club (I think she did that to get interested in something I enjoyed to be honest).Presently when we meet now it’s for a meal and we communicate either through text or email (work emails). I appreciate her as a person and her kids are great to.I enjoy talking to her and I enjoy helping her when she brings it up only to not pry in her life.She asks the same type of question towards me as well so it’s an easy flowing conversation.I would like it to stay this way but obvious this isn’t only about me and I fear she may still want more out of us? She even mentioned she didn’t remember leaving me even though I have the text ? She also was upset when I didn’t reach out for over a month and she said it upset her ? So besides that things have been going friendly well except her I’m thinking of you texts and the baby texts have me worried.There were other signs in our dinner as well that’s leading me to believe she may not just want to be friends.

[Shawnlam]

My only goal really is remain non physical,normal friends as I don’t want to get intimately/emotionally attached again.I already love her which wasn’t there during friendship but I can surpress and deal with those feelings myself .

[Radcliff]

My only goal really is remain non physical,normal friends as I don’t want to get intimately/emotionally attached again.I already love her which wasn’t there during friendship but I can surpress and deal with those feelings myself .

Well, it sure does seem like she might have something else in mind.  That could make it a challenge to navigate a friendship. 

How often would you like to have dinner with her?  How often would you like to communicate with her?  (What I'm looking for here is where you draw the line between "friend" and "girlfriend" as far as frequency of eating together and talking/texting goes.)

The most obvious thing to do here is to just tell her how much you value her friendship and say that's where you want to keep it, and see if she can be on the same page as you.  I know with a pwBPD we spend a lot of effort figuring out what to do because the most straightforward thing seems to fail so much, but sometimes it's best to start with the straightforward approach and adapt from there.  But you know the situation best.  What do you think the best approach would be in this situation?

WW

[Shawnlam]

I’m afraid if I tell her I only want to remain friends like before she may take it personally but it’s come time to do it anyways .I think leasing anyone on is worse in the long run VS coming clean .

[pearlsw]

Hi Shawnlam,

That sounds good - you need to do what feels authentic to you!

Do you have an idea how to word this so it has the best chance to go over well?

take care, pearl.

[Shawnlam]

I’ve written several versions to try and sound the least selfish in my words.I think I nailed down one version that should do the trick.I also spoke to her yesterday so we will speak Saturday about it.

[Skip]

Any tips on how to very carefully tip toe out of my predicament while always making sure I don’t hurt her?

What is the predicament, exactly? I'm not sure it is clear.

As a general rule, trying to become friends this early after a breakup is not so easy... .there typically needs to be more separation. Conversely, if you are trying to rehabilitate a relationship that, cloaking the relationship as a friendship and using this quasi relationship state to demonstrate improved relationship skills, can be very effective way to reconnect.

Are you truly wanting to be friends? Is this a stage to re-connection? These are questions you should ask yourself.

As for supporting a person in therapy, studies show a predictor of therapy success is the patient having a strong supporter... .someone they trust and know will be there no matter what. It can be a mother, it can be a best friend, it can be a husband.

It is not a good role for an ex boyfriend or a boyfriend in transition. The reason being that the minute you withdraw emotionally, the trust will shatter and it will affect the relationship and the therapy.

Do you feel she is reaching to put you in that place?

To answer your original question, I think the answer is to keep the relationship intensity/frequency down and to not morph (or be drawn into) into the role as safety net. Again, a hard thing to do this close after a breakup. I might even broach the topic about the role and how her mother is doing in it.

Lastly, if you truly want to be friends, slowly start to inject small hints regarding your dating life. Very subtle - especially at first. For example, do not be available on weekends for get togethers or calls or emails... .focus you communications with her on Sunday late through Thursday.

Where do you really want to take this?

[Skip]

I would like it to stay this way but obvious this isn’t only about me and I fear she may still want more out of us? She even mentioned she didn’t remember leaving me even though I have the text ? She also was upset when I didn’t reach out for over a month and she said it upset her ?

If I remember, the two of you got together in May. She said she was busy and wanted to get together in the early part of June. When she didn't contact you the first week, you went into emotional withdrawal (and NC, sorta).

I can see why she expected you to follow-up. This is not too surprising, I hope.

I think there is a deeper question here for you and it relates to "attachment styles" that you might want to explore (probably not in this thread). You have an insecure attachment style. When you feel less loved than you want, or you get some level of rejection, your go to emotions are destructive. You withdraw, get angry, bully, drink, etc.  I applaud you (!) for not getting angry and bullying or drinking right now and I think it is really helping you slowly rebuild trust (as a lover, friend, or amicable ex). I think you can see that working. I think would have worked in January, too.    But I think it will help to see that the root of these behaviors is "withdrawal" and the root of that is in your attachment style.

Knowing this about yourself (ask your therapist about Bowlby's attachment theory) and seeing yourself in this light might help you substitute better reactions. One question now is whether your distancing right now is driven by a secure attachment reactions or an insecure one.

I'm glad to see all of this on a better track than it was this Spring.

 

[Shawnlam]

Well oddly enough we had a good long conversation today about how things were going both in her life and mine.We decided to have a small outting together Saturday and have a face to face chat about “us” and where we stand now and going forward so it’s easier for both.Obviousky the talk of relationship will come forth just as much as remaining friends as well .I spent a lot of time of time just paying attention to what she seems to want as well as how she’s feeling now.Shes moved,is more confident,her therapy is also giving her confidence in herself.She told me a lot about herself and the changes she’s working on.She seems to be conscious of a lot of issues she has it’s almost alarming to see such a flip.All in all so far so good we communicate much better now than before ,no finger pointing ,we just tease each other jokingly now .She seems happy I’m back in her life and she knows I’m happy she’s back in mine... .this weekend will be on how we shall proceed together again.

To answer your questions : I don’t believe she sees me as a safety net or a therapy mentor .I never felt that from her in her words ,emotions when speaking on the topic or actions at all.She is pretty independent to say the least raising two boys ,manages her job and home well.She seems in a much better place mentally as well ,much much better.She also has one friend less that was a bad influence on her and she has always been easily influenced (her words not mine).She does pick what seems like a two party system of people in her life , good caring or careless users again (her words not mine) ,I just listened to what she had to say and kept comments to myself as it wasn’t my place to comment on her life. I think but am not yet sure that she may still love me because all in all besides my bad traits and attitude during our hardships ,over all I may be considere stable and nice (her words again not mine). So long story short I myself am going through an in-depth thought process before the weekend.I definitely said to myself (listen first to what she would like from you and “us”, then just be honest with what you also would like and “us” , maybe it will match by itself?

The one and only mindframe I’m using on the weekend is simple :go in and listen ,don’t go in wanting

[Skip]

The one and only mindframe I’m using on the weekend is simple :go in and listen ,don’t go in wanting

That's good.