Kid's reaction to separation

[WantToBeFree]

Hi everyone, I am not sure if this is where this thread should go.  Please direct me elswhere if not.  So I finally did it, and told my uBPD husband that I needed a separation again, but this time I made no promises of reconciliation (we were separated for 3 months last fall/winter).  He begged and cried as usual, but it went so much better than I expected, and he left for his parents' house without incident.  My D4 was at my dad's, so once he left, I went to pick her up.

It's now been about 3 weeks since he left the house.  I am doing fantastic.  This separation is so different from last time, where I cried every day and felt like someone had died.  He pushed me into that one, had a big fight, he asked if we were done and I said yes.  But I clearly was not ready.  So anyway, when I got home with my D4, she didn't say a word about daddy not being there.

Same story the next day.  The third day, she went to my inlaws house like she always does once a week, and of course, saw her daddy since he is staying there.  When he brought her home, we told her that he would be staying at Nana's for a while and she whined (but did not cry) that she'd miss him, but all the while clinging to me.

Since then she seems fine on the surface, doesn't really talk about daddy or him not being home, but pretty much since he left she has wanted to sleep in my bed with me.  She's slept exclusively in her own room since the very first night home from the hospital.  With the exception of a rare nightmare here and there, she's always been great about sleeping in her own room, so clearly, this is about the separation.

She is not very close to her dad at all, he's been pretty absent from her life, and when he was around he yells at her a lot and spends almost zero one on one time with her.  She and I are very very close, but nonetheless, I know she loves him, and the mere fact that he's not here when he always was (at least physically) her whole life, it's got to be difficult for her.  

I am guessing it's just wanting extra comfort, and maybe worrying that daddy went away, so I will too.  Though I come to bed much much later than she does, she is perfectly content being alone in my bed for hours before I come to bed, so I am guessing my room/bed just makes her feel close to me.  When he first left, she wanted to sleep with me every third or fourth day, but tonight is now the 4th night in a row.  I did manage to get her to have quiet time/nap in her own room this afternoon, but it was a struggle, and I just didn't have the energy to fight her tonight.

I have zero problems with her sleeping with me, especially knowing she is probably just upset and needs me right now.  But is it good for her?  Am I creating a monster that will be very difficult to break later?  I can recall many times as a kid where I slept with my mom for a few days to weeks, and going back to my own bed was awful, but after one or two nights I was fine.  

What do you think?  Let her do it for now, or break her of it and make her sleep in her own bed?  I've tried talking to her and telling her that mommy will never leave her, but words tend to do little in these situations.  I'm seeing my T this week, so I will ask him his opinion as well.  Thanks!

[DogMan75]

Personally, I don’t think it’s usually a big deal under normal circumstances, but under these circumstances, I’d be wary myself.

I do know that for those kids where it does become a problem, it often helps to first move them to a mattress on the floor by your bed, then start moving it incrementally towards their room every night.

Once you do get them into their own room, it’s important to get them to go to sleep on their own. Falling asleep with you there, and then waking with you absent produces a lot of anxiety. They need to learn to self-soothe themselves to sleep.

In this case, after just a few days, I don’t think it’s a big deal, especially during such a traumatic time, but run it by your therapist and see what they think.

[Harley Quinn]

I wouldn't worry about this right now.  It is early days.  You're absolutely right that she is seeking more comfort and that's totally normal for kids this age around a change, especially one where a parent is no longer at home.  She wants to be close to you and your allowing that will be soothing for her.   

My S4 was only 1 when myself and his father split up and he clung more at the time, which was to be expected.  I find that he can regress a little around times of change and this year when our parenting schedule altered he wanted me to lie with him and cuddle on his bed for a while before leaving him to sleep.  Occasionally he would nod off in my arms and I had the same worry as you but now he is feeling more secure I no longer need to lie down with him after story time and he's fine when we go about our usual bedtime routine.  Hopefully she will bounce back and be happy to return to her normal habits when things are settled and if not, there are always things that can be done to help her get there.  Personally if you don't mind her sleeping in your bed, I'd go with the flow for the moment.   

My advice would be to continue giving her lots of reassurance presently and imagine the types of things that go through a child's mind when a parent leaves.  She needs to know that you're not going anywhere and that she will still see her dad.  She may be wondering why he has gone and whether it has anything to do with her.  Lots of kids believe it is because of them.  It may be helpful to let her know that it was grown up reasons that you have both decided to live in different houses and answer any questions she has.  I explained to my son that some mummys and daddys live separately because they are more happy that way and that both of us still love him and that will never change.  Also give her lots of opportunities to talk about her feelings when they seem to be showing on the surface.  Just let her know you care and will listen if she has a worry.  Plenty of cuddles and reassurance will definitely help her to feel secure and safe.  She's going to see you as her place of safety and the stability you're able to provide will be really valuable in restoring her confidence. 

Do you have a schedule in mind for contact with her father?  Does he want to be actively involved in parenting since the split?  Having a structured routine in place goes a long way to help them know what to expect. 

I'm going to move your thread to the family law and co parenting board, where you can get input from other separated and divorced parents on what has helped them in their experience of supporting the children.  You're doing a great job and don't forget that.  We can carry a lot of internal pressure as parents to get everything right all the time and the main thing to remember is that she is safe and loved and those are the most important things we can provide our kids.   

Love and light x 

[kells76]

Hi WantToBeFree;

I wondered the same thing with DH's kids:

Am I creating a monster that will be very difficult to break later?

It seemed like every weekend they were with us, they both wanted to sleep in our bed both nights. Two kids in the bed equaled nobody getting good rest; plus, even if it was just SD12 (though she was ... .let's see... .this might have been when she was 7 thru 10?), SD10 (then 5 thru 8) is such a follower that she would also want to sleep with us.

I definitely worried about setting a precedent. I don't know if the relaxation tools that work for SD12 now would have worked back then, but we have hit on some really good ones for her. Some of them do take a 12-year-old brain (mental word games, list games, etc), but we also do a full body relaxation exercise that will knock her out... .YESSSSSS! It could possibly work for a 4 year old?

Basically start with "noticing" her breathing, in & out, and there's no right or wrong way to breathe -- just noticing it. Then see if any body part or parts "feel like moving or shaking", and let them move, and when they don't feel like that any more, you will notice them be still. Then "notice" how feet and ankles are feeling, where they are, then "see what it would be like" to relax any tense parts of them. And on up through knees, legs, torso, shoulders, etc. Helps to do it in a dark room (or maybe a nightlight), with soft tones. You can prep your kid for you leaving the room by saying they will "notice" some changes in sounds, touch, door opening, etc, but they can just "notice" that as they breathe.

Anyway, she still needed the mattress on our floor the other weekend. It's a lot less frequent, though. She tends towards anxiety, and has a hard time managing her emotions when she's sleep-deprived (like all of us).

Maybe you can think of this time as "front-loading" a lot of affection, support, tools, and snuggling, so that down the road D4 feels really secure and can sleep on her own. I think, looking back, I wish I'd been more flexible about just saying Yes to the beds on the floor in our room, instead of rigidly believing that the kids "should" be old enough to sleep on their own. Maybe if I'd "front-loaded" that a little more, the phase would have been shorter. Oh well, live and learn.

I suppose if SD12 is still doing this when she's, I don't know, 17, then we'll talk... .     I just have to remind myself that she probably doesn't have good models for self-soothing anxiety at Mom's house, so she needs a lot of help building tools -- or seeing DH and I use tools for her -- that she can do herself later on.

I think you'll be OK.

[ForeverDad]

I'll tell the story how my son reacted when my ex was out of the house.  (Police had come and I ended up with a temp protection order and possession of the home.)  He was ajavascript:void(0); little over 3.5 years old.

Well she came by with a police escort to get some of her things last night after she got out... .  She also came by today with a police escort to check on our son... .  It seems like she is staying away for now though, which is good.  The kids never ask about her at all.  I was terrified that she was gong to try to move back in... .  It has been so nice having some peace and quiet at home, its been along time since I could sit down and relax without being screamed at.

That's exactly what happened to me.  When the police took away my then-spouse, we had about 6 days before she popped back in our lives.  Her absence was palpable.  The silence was deafening!   My preschooler awoke during the first couple nights and asked where she was and then went right back to sleep.  Never asked again.  After a few days we were making cookies and I mentioned her, thinking to be "fair"  but he refused to talk about her, pulled me back into mixing the batter.  Of course, when she popped back into our lives, she kept saying how much he missed her.

That wasn't the end of the story.  After our mutual protection orders were dismissed a few months later, she blocked all father-child contact for over three months.  Meanwhile, I filed for divorce and got some help from court at the temp order hearing.  Once the magistrate, same one we had months before, verified from her that she had blocked my parental contact for 3 months he then remarked, "I'll fix that."  He used the same alternate weekend schedule for me.  No consequences for her.  No make-up time.  Insult on top of injury, she managed to convince the magistrate to delay our reunion by at least a day since she was going to be out of town Saturday for a religious event and wanted to take son with her.  (How critical was the event for a 4 year old to go with her?  Why couldn't she have gone and let me have my full weekend?  He hadn't seen me for over three months!)

Well, once he was with me we had a good time.  He was daddy's boy after all.  All too soon it was time for him to go to the exchange.  Oh, my!  He locked himself in his room, I had to carry him out to the car literally kicking and screaming and sit next to him while my brother drove.  He was sobbing, refused to look at me and eventually fell asleep.  I realized only then that he thought he was going to live with me and felt betrayed.  For the next few years exchanges had a pattern, he would come running to me but be fussing, resisting and even sobbing on returns.  In time the exchanges became the norm and by the time he was 9 years old he was okay with them.

My advice to you is not to bring up the disordered parent, let her do it at her pace.  You shouldn't "make it all better", likely she knows something is 'off' even if she can't put it into words and if you gloss over things you could end up invalidating her observations and perceptions.

[livednlearned]

It might be a good idea to talk to a child T, in addition to your (adult) T.

I did both throughout my separation, divorce and beyond and the child psychologists are often much better at focusing on what is best for the child at the specific developmental stage she is at.

I've tried talking to her and telling her that mommy will never leave her, but words tend to do little in these situations.

I wonder if these reassurances could have the opposite effect, because they suggest that the only way to handle her fears is if someone she has no control over never leaves her.

My son wasn't bonded to his dad, and didn't blink an eye when we split up (age 9). He regressed emotionally during the split, and seemed to go through similar backsliding at different developmental milestones. The real troubles began when his dad began parental alienation, a form of abuse that is pathologically entwined with personality disordered parenting.

The best antidote is to learn everything you can about emotional validation, so that your daughter can identify her own emotions, name them, and use them to help her with reality testing when her dad tries to distort it with his own troubled emotionally driven sense of reality.

She can recover from sleeping with you periodically during a time of stress. She will have a harder time recovering if she isn't sure how she feels, why she feels that way, and whether it's ok to feel that way.

":)o you feel sad? Or scared? Or lonely?" is a good way to help her figure out what she's feeling.  

This might be something to ask a child T, but validating how she feels, and then encouraging her to work through difficult feelings, could be the most amazing skill you give her.

"You feel sad about sleeping alone? Sometimes I feel sad too."

"What are some things you do when you feel sad?"

"When I feel sad, sometimes I sing to myself. Sometimes at night, I cry because it's quiet and my feelings come out because it's safe. And then after I cry, I feel better. Do you ever feel better after you cry?"

That might be more than you want to say to a 4 year old   but that's the general idea. Letting D4 know it's ok to feel sad, and that you feel sad too, and sometimes feeling the feels is how you work through it.

I read somewhere that it isn't our unmet needs that hurts us, it is our unmourned needs.

You can give D4 something even better than you being there for her. You can show her how she can be there for herself  

The bed is a symbol 

[Turkish]

My kids' mom left when they were just 4 (son) and then D2. She was still in the crib in her brother's room. 

It was a 3 year struggle to nix the co-sleeping (I was and still am single), mostly with our daughter.  I thought i would screw them up by allowing them to sleep with me. Now 6, only about 6 months ago,  D stopped coming into my room in the AM to cuddle. That she's a girl makes it foremost on my mind.

Over a year ago, they would power trip on me by taking over my bed. Sometimes I'd sleep in their room.  D usually found me in the AM. Currently, S8 will stay in his bed of I tell him to.  D6 usually does... .the last night I had with them I was like "fine!" And we slept in the same bed.  I've grown past being so worried about it. D is less and less coming into my room in the AM. Queen bed, an 8 year old who's as big as an 11 year old and his sister... .it's a wonder I don't fall off.

I think what livevedandlearned said is right,  that your bed is a symbol.  Encourage independence, but realize that at 4 he needs comfort. The separation is still
living raw to him.  Falling asleep with him in his bed first can help.  My ex said that it helped her deal with it. 

[WantToBeFree]

Thank you all for your input.  I'm so sorry I am just now replying, things have been very busy.  D4 is still sleeping in my bed most nights, but we did have some progress this past week.  She slept in her own bed two nights in a row.  The first night she didn't even mention sleeping in my bed, and the second night she asked if I would come crawl in with her and when I said we'll see she left it at that and didn't protest when I never came in.

I was so excited that we were making headway.  Then last night she wanted to sleep with me again.  But she and I went out with her dad to a fair, so it may be coincidence, or it may have been seeing her daddy made her slip back a bit and she wanted to sleep with me.  I'd love if she could sleep in her own bed every night and be magically adjusted, but I think for now I will encourage her own bed, but allow her to sleep with me when she really really needs to.  Thanks again all!