Hit, threatened, tormented, and I have no idea what to do PART 2

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Thank you Red, pearls, Cat, WW and empath. I think your advice is completely right in terms of holding on to hate and making direct statements about lost love. I have in fact recently begun imagining a place of serenity that I might make it to some day. I am starting to have hope that a better situation for me and my children might come sooner than I thought. She has her dream job. The pressure will be intense and the children no longer in her hands. I truly think she would put that job over living with me and kids.

I am more or less already starting to see myself as a single parent. I found a half-decent preschool for my daughter last night and plan to sign her up. I'll be most likely biking the two of them in kid seats to two different kindergartens early in the morning in 37 C weather, but oh well there are showers at my office and I can get some exercise. Life is getting harder and harder but more and more control in my hands. I am in the process of interviewing some nannies to give me support when needed.  

WW you are right in remembering that I come from a FOO that doesn't discuss emotions. But ironically, this is changing because of my situation. I think it's helped all of us to break through all the formalities and actually start sharing with each other. My brother let me know yesterday he got laid off and might have trouble making the rent. That was not the kind of thing I think he would have let me know before. I think my wife's BPD, which nearly destroyed my family relationships, have now in fact made our relationships better and closer!

~ROE

[RolandOfEld]

Thank you Red, pearls, Cat, WW and empath. I think your advice is completely right in terms of holding on to hate and making direct statements about lost love. I have in fact recently begun imagining a place of serenity that I might make it to some day. I am starting to have hope that a better situation for me and my children might come sooner than I thought. She has her dream job. The pressure will be intense and the children no longer in her hands. I truly think she would put that job over living with me and kids.

I am more or less already starting to see myself as a single parent. I found a half-decent preschool for my daughter last night and plan to sign her up. I'll be most likely biking the two of them in kid seats to two different kindergartens early in the morning in 37 C weather, but oh well there are showers at my office and I can get some exercise. Life is getting harder and harder but more and more control in my hands. I am in the process of interviewing some nannies to give me support when needed.  

WW you are right in remembering that I come from a FOO that doesn't discuss emotions. But ironically, this is changing because of my situation. I think it's helped all of us to break through all the formalities and actually start sharing with each other. My brother let me know yesterday he got laid off and might have trouble making the rent. That was not the kind of thing I think he would have let me know before. I think my wife's BPD, which nearly destroyed my family relationships, have now in fact made our relationships better and closer!

~ROE

[Radcliff]

Roland, that's fantastic that you've been drawn closer to your FOO and are getting good support from them.  I'm experiencing a bit of the same here.  It is good to reconnect!

Good luck with all the changes.  Does your wife start her new job in a couple of weeks?

WW

[I Am Redeemed]

ROE,

Just caught up on this thread... .wow, you really have been through it. I can empathize with what you are feeling. It is very hard at the phase you are in to go about your daily routine "pretending" that things are "normal" and hoping nothing escalates or blows up without warning until you can get every detail in place. In my case, I was not able to effectively plan, but nine months later I am still making it work. I am not where I want to be, but I am not where I was. Caring for a child all by myself is hard, and it was always the source of my greatest anxiety when i thought of leaving, how to leave, when to leave, where to go, who would keep s2, how was I going to work, how would I afford to pay bills alone... .but you know what, every day I have had my needs met and s2's needs met. I found an invaluable support system from my place of employment. UBPDh had spent almost a whole year trying to get me to quit that job. Now I am so glad I didn't.
Being on my own with a child is difficult, but it is not nearly as hard as living every day not knowing when the next abusive episode will take place, and feeling both guilty and powerless at the jeopardy my son was in by living in such an unstable environment. You can do it. I am glad you have some plans in place. Keep your resolve.

Also... .don't give up on your dreams of traveling for your career or singing or anything else you want to do. Concentrate on stabilizing your life, and once the dust has settled somewhat... .you will need something to do to get yourself back. Good luck.

Blessings and peace,

Redeemed

[SunandMoon]

Hi Roland

You are handling all this so well! I'm sure it doesn't feel like it right now, but I think you will look back at this time in your life and give yourself a pat on the back!

It's so good that you reached out to your family and pulled in support for yourself... .and now that connection is paying dividends. SO good! We both know how important support is, being an expat and a bit isolated. Now you know you are not all alone.

All the feelings (and anger) that you've expressed are totally understandable and normal. Being abused is something that no one should stand for and, when you can finally see things clearly, it's normal to be outraged at what you have endured.

So feel the feelings as they come up and use them to keep your forward momentum. We know you're a nice guy and will always take the high road 

Empath said something that resonates with me:

One of the things that I have learned in my own journey is that sometimes kids who are in abusive environments can show behaviors that are remarkably similar to ADHD.

I would think about this, as your little boy has also endured abuse from your wife. Her threats to leave him could spark a lot of insecurity and acting out in a little kid who doesn't understand that there's something wrong with mummy.

Keep an open mind with this, as the diagnosis comes from your counselor and she doesn't sound like the brightest bulb in the box. It would be interesting to see how he acts when things are more stable at home.

Good luck with your search for a nanny. I hope the Universe sends the perfect one for you!

Sending strength and hugs 
SaM

[I Am Redeemed]

I would think about this, as your little boy has also endured abuse from your wife. Her threats to leave him could spark a lot of insecurity and acting out in a little kid who doesn't understand that there's something wrong with mummy.

Keep an open mind with this, as the diagnosis comes from your counselor and she doesn't sound like the brightest bulb in the box. It would be interesting to see how he acts when things are more stable at home.

I agree, ROE, while my children were in state's custody my daughter was diagnosed ADHD and put on medication which caused her to not sleep well, lose her appetite and she promptly lost weight until she was rail thin. After she went to my sister's she stopped taking the medication and she is doing fine now. I do not believe she was accurately diagnosed. Children who have experienced trauma or instability in home lives can exhibit behaviors which may masquerade as disorders. I don't see how child services allowed her to be diagnosed with ADHD because there was no baseline of normalcy with which to compare her behavior.

Your children probably do have some behavior issues and confusion because it is very hard to maintain a secure, stable routine when one parent is neither stable nor secure. If you can find one in your area, a counselor trained to work with children who have experienced trauma or at the least an unstable home environment would be beneficial perhaps. I know that play therapy is used for children younger than five years old.

My kids had all sorts of behavior issues, and some still do, but over time it has gotten better. I feel that increased visitation time with me will help with some of the behavior issues that remain. Your family has all been affected by your situation, and you will probably find that your children may, over time, settle somewhat when the chaos is not ruling the household environment.

take care ROE,

Redeemed

[RolandOfEld]

Thank you, everyone for your support on the ADHD issue. It's been a tremendous stressor for me recently.  

She just confessed to me in tears this morning on the phone that she went out last night with some younger guy from the UK she met at a bar with her friend recently who calls himself "The Sex God". The intent was one night stand but she couldn't go through with it. She had lied to me last night and said she was out with her friend. I didn't get angry but told her I cared more about knowing why and she said "because our relationship hasn't been good, I was looking for care and comfort." Yes, it is hard for a relationship to be good when one is randomly hitting you in bed and controlling you from doing something you want to do. But of course this can't enter the conversation. Really no idea on how to navigate this one. She's asking for my thoughts. I don't know what to say. Not particularly hurt about the date but I think she wants me to be upset to show I care about her.  

~ROE

[Cat Familiar]

You believe that she's being truthful about not going through with it? She would like you to feel jealous as a sign that you care, but you're not particularly hurt? What does feeling that, or not feeling upset, portend for the future of your relationship? And might this signal a willingness on her part to cheat if she lives in an apartment away from you and the kids?

In many ways, it seems like she's making it easier for you two to go your separate ways. Do you feel like you might be emotionally numb after all she's put you through in recent weeks?   

[Red5]

She just confessed to me in tears this morning on the phone that she went out last night with some younger guy from the UK she met at a bar with her friend recently who calls himself "The Sex God". The intent was one night stand but she couldn't go through with it.

My first wife used to do this to me, things were really bad in the spring - summer of 1995, hair razing to be exact.

Three small children, and she was acting out, going out, and hooking up... .

I was severely codependent, I would have agreed to anything to get her to "stay"... .she even suggested an open marriage at one point, I said no, we'll divorce instead, then we agreed to a separation agreement.

Somewhere in there she was seeing a therapist to deal with her childhood abuse... .I was dragged into it on three occasions, .and pretty much told that I was going to have to share her with whomever else she decided she wanted to sleep with... .ugh !

To days later after we signed a do it yourself public lawyer separation agreement, .I caught her on the air station with her bf !

I filed for divorce two days later, .and she moved out, leaving me with our three children.

I remember those times fondly, yes I do, .I had decided that I was done being cheated on, and being in a dysfunctional marriage, at that time we'd been married for about eleven years.

I was very happy that she was gone, and it looked as though I would be starting over, she even told me that the children were better off with me, and that I should have full custody... .

I even started seeing a girl from back home (crazy times)... .she was gone, and we heard nothing from her for months, I was actually doing it, I was making it on my own, and taking care of the three little ones, I was still young and in the service at that time, "I had a plan"... .

Months passed, the divorce was just about to go through, and be finalized, and then she showed back up, in tears, a hot mess, .I rejected her, the kids started crying, my heart broke... .there were two suicide attempts, .I then let the recycle occur... .we reconciled, .that lasted about six months, we moved, I deployed, and she went right back to her old behaviors... .ugh !

I typed all that bilge to say this... .your wife is just playing your heart strings... .people who really love each other DO NOT treat each other that way, .period.

Dysfunction is dysfunction, leopards don't change their stripes.

Tread carefully Roland... .you are hearing ONLY what she chooses to tell you, I bet their is much more she is not telling you, she is seeing where your boundaries are, what your deal breakers are... .I will NEVER forget the day, I caught her with her bf, .after she told me that she "just needed some space"... .she lied to me, and it almost killed me... .the whole thing was heart wrenching to me, this was her third cheating scene later I found out, and not the last, I was being played like a cheap fiddle, she was "testing me" maybe, to see how much I would really take(?)... .I had completely resigned myself to starting over without her after that terrible afternoon I found "them" together, it was going to be just me and the children... .she even told me that, told my lawyer that, and off she went... .

Some eleven years later, 2006; she did it all to me again, exact same scenario... .this time, I went through with the divorce... .and did not let her back into my life, even after she played the suicide attempt card yet once again... .that was twelve years ago now... .I remarried seven years ago (interim), to another woman, after staying a single dad for five years... .but she, current u/BPDw; is BPD "lite"... .as Cat describes her relationship(s).

... ."I was looking for care and comfort"... .wow, so that's what they call it now... .in 1995, it was called "ladies night"... .

Be careful Roland !

Red5

[RolandOfEld]

Hi Cat and Red, thanks for the needed dose of reality. As of now I still believe she didn't go beyond a date, but letting in a little room for doubt on this. Regardless just as Red said it will definitely happen again in some form.

The end result was we talked it over and she felt very stupid and guilty and apologized, even recognized that I was a kind and supportive husband. I'm not sure if she really feels this way or if she just got really spooked at the idea of losing me. Today she got me a little present. I'm being nice but taking every with a grain (jar) of salt. These might just be measures to keep me around rather than genuine acts of love and remorse. I can't just melt back into being OK with her like I usually do when she turns the sad puppy eyes on me. That said, I also can't go around making conflict when I need to keep a semi-stable home environment for myself and the kids until other arrangements can be made. The book Splitting that WW recommended has been very helpful so far on imagining how this might go.

More on secrets... .

I am scheduled to meet with the social worker one on one later this month. I learned from our psychiatrist yesterday that my wife has been to see a different social worker. Not sure why she is going without me. Have to be careful. But the psychiatrist thought this was an ideal situation since we could each express our own views on the situation. I will bring my printed records... .

~ROE

[Red5]

The end result was we talked it over and she felt very stupid and guilty and apologized, even recognized that I was a kind and supportive husband. I'm not sure if she really feels this way or if she just got really spooked at the idea of losing me.

My ex did this too, I think, that when they venture out a little too far from stability, and safety, and they realize that they were about to commit a "deal breaker", .they may have a moment or two of sanity, .this won't last long, once they get a taste, they will return to it, their great adventure, .my ex called it, "living her life".

Today she got me a little present. I'm being nice but taking every with a grain (jar) of salt. These might just be measures to keep me around rather than genuine acts of love and remorse.

This is called "intermittent positive reward"... .this is what the pw/BPD, ie' the abuser will do from time to time, .to keep the Non around, interested, on the line, .whatever you want to call it (hooked)... .give the Non a little bit of hope, after the last beating... .like you are almost about to be smothered, lights out, and then they let you up for a minute or two, to get your breath, they tell you "I love you, sorry bout that", .and you think to your self, "there're back, oh' happy days, the marriage relationship is saved, its going to be happily ever after!"... .but no, then they put that pillow back over your face (metaphorically)_, and start smothering you yet again... .its a cycle, and it repeats itself over and over and over... .

I can't just melt back into being OK with her like I usually do when she turns the sad puppy eyes on me.

She is counting on this... .look and see now, remember the history (journal), her recent behaviors, .see how far from "center" she went, .and she hurt you unapologetically, and then maybe she got a little nervous, after she threw you under the bus, discarded you so to speak... .and was extremely mean to you... .and then, she came back; so to speak, .EXPECTING you to take her back after her admission... .the cycle is repeating itself?

That said, I also can't go around making conflict when I need to keep a semi-stable home environment for myself and the kids until other arrangements can be made.

Back in 1995, when my first wife took off, to be with her new bf, leaving me, and three little kids behind, and eleven years of marriage... .it made me take on quite the survivalist persona... .I cleaned everything up, became very independent, I "took charge"... .I started to get ready to move to my next duty assignment, .I made a plan, without her, .and I started to execute this plan, .and then she saw this, like the train was leaving the station without her, and all of a sudden her "new life"" was not so appealing anymore to her (?), she told me, (quote) "I had no idea you could be that strong"... .(?)... .so she tried to come back, ie' love bomb, intermittent positive reward, .but it did not work like it used to, I had "changed" a little, or so I thought, but she found my soft spot, which was our children, and the memory or else expectation of family; marriage... .for life, .she promised me she would change, and I believed her, .we divorced eleven years later, after she ran off with yet another man, and even got pregnant by him, I was in Japan on deployment, she even dumped our then teenagers off with my own mum, stripped the house, crashed the bank account, and she was off again, to "live her life"... .yeah, long story, this went on for a very long time.

I will repeat, be very careful Roland, only you can know what you need to do, a tough row to hoe my friend.

I was thinking about you this morning on the way to work, and I recalled how I used to think, well over thirty years ago now... .ie' marriage is for life, kids are everything, family is No.1 above all else, marriage vows should never be broken, and I thought my first wife and I would be together forever, no matter what, we could persevere, survive anything to include infidelity (serial), I thought I could "save her"... .that is what I was thinking, .I don't think that way anymore, .and that is kind of sad to me.

Keep posting,

Best regards Red5

[pearlsw]

Thank you, everyone for your support on the ADHD issue. It's been a tremendous stressor for me recently.  

She just confessed to me in tears this morning on the phone that she went out last night with some younger guy from the UK she met at a bar with her friend recently who calls himself "The Sex God". The intent was one night stand but she couldn't go through with it. She had lied to me last night and said she was out with her friend. I didn't get angry but told her I cared more about knowing why and she said "because our relationship hasn't been good, I was looking for care and comfort." Yes, it is hard for a relationship to be good when one is randomly hitting you in bed and controlling you from doing something you want to do. But of course this can't enter the conversation. Really no idea on how to navigate this one. She's asking for my thoughts. I don't know what to say. Not particularly hurt about the date but I think she wants me to be upset to show I care about her.  

~ROE

Hi ROE,

Oh my goodness! Oh my! That is just... .whew! My SO has said he is out with others at times (he even gave one of his "imaginary girlfriends" a name to make it very convincing!), online dating, getting an arranged marriage with someone from one of his home countries set up, etc. over the years in order to "make me jealous". I am extremely not jealous so his ploys have never worked and I don't know why he still tries them, but I digress. But "The Sex God"... .what the huh? Sometimes it is hard to know whether to laugh, cry, or just fly away!

I think it is actually a good, or at least interesting sign, that she was so (or semi-) honest about it. At least, she told you a version of it, ya know? I would take it as her testing how close to the end things are, the telling you about it part. She may sense your feelings are stale, which of course they are. It was likely also about her getting some "positive attention", though the kind that comes with no responsibility, but does involve risk, and is a no going back from kind of thing. Once she's taken that step it is taken and can't be undone. It probably did scare her because she realized this would change things in a way she/the relationship might not recover from.

Are your feelings totally gone now and you are just working to get away, protect yourself and the kids?

Sorry you are having to deal with all of this! It's not fair!

take good care! ~pearl.

[Cat Familiar]

My story with my ex is similar in that he would "confess" to his infidelities (at least the ones where he had no other plausible explanation for his absence) but minimize what happened. Sometimes he would say it "meant nothing" but then I'd learn later that he was seeing that woman again.

I had the "I'm so sorry, you're everything to me" apology fest, complete with tears and blubbering monologues begging for forgiveness. Rinse and repeat.

I have no idea how many times this happened over the years, but I could easily count at least two dozen. Undoubtedly there were more that I never found out about.

Sorry, ROE, if I'm a little jaded and suspicious. It may have been just what she said.

[RolandOfEld]

Red and Cat, please keep the wake up call coming. It is always the same. The sorrys and the puppy dog eyes and the presents and cooking me food I like. I'm royalty for 3 or so days after. Then back to neutral. Then its back to hitting / stealing / destroying town.

But this time I know what's coming. I am getting stronger and more independent here (her home country) and this is probably concerning her. I arranged my daughter's preschool and some babysitters completely on my own. My career is taking off. I don't really need to rely on her anymore. 

pearls I don't think my feelings will ever be completely gone. Romantic, more or less, but there is familial love there. She is the mother of my children and we went through raising them together alone. She can never be completely out of my life, and I suppose I will always help her to some degree. But yes, I think I am preparing for an exit of some kind. Next step will be my meeting with the social worker to see what resources they can arrange.

~ROE

[Radcliff]

ROE,

I'm glad your independence is growing.  As you said, she will notice this, and will feel threatened.  Use validation and other supportive behaviors to try to lessen her fears, while still being honest.

When does she start work?  When do you think you will suggest that she get an apartment?  (I'm not trying to rush you, I admire your measured and step-wise approach.)

A while back, you were at wit's end, pretty strung out.  Are you feeling any better now?  Are you sleeping enough?

WW

[RolandOfEld]

Hi WW, she starts work at the end of August. Both our kids will start kindergarten then. I will drop them both off and most likely pick them up. It's all arranged. So they are more or less no longer in uBPDw's hands.

For the apartment timing, I will watch for 1) how my 1on1 appointment with the SW goes later this month and 2) how things evolve after she starts working. She said to me the other day she was sure we could do it. But overwhelming new job stress + BPD + kids in new situation is not going to be a good mixture for any of us. I expect incidents and lots of them that may push the situation towards a natural climax and resolution.

Btw WW I bought Splitting and it is a terrific reference, thank you. I want to aim for the out of court solution they propose but will be ready for the opposite. I will continue consulting with a lawyer my father found with expertise in this country to be prepared for the worst. I have his unlimited financial support on this part if it comes to it.

Feeling wise, it's really minute to minute. I asked the doctor for some anti depression meds and am giving them a try. Sleep is never great with two kids but its been passable for the last few days. I'm extremely happy at new work and extremely unhappy at home. Every day when I make my way home it feels like a death march. I try to enjoy the good moments as they come.

~ROE

[Cat Familiar]

Red and Cat, please keep the wake up call coming. It is always the same. The sorrys and the puppy dog eyes and the presents and cooking me food I like. I'm royalty for 3 or so days after. Then back to neutral. Then its back to hitting / stealing / destroying town.

Exactly what I experienced, ROE, plus promises "I'll never do that again." Also he'd buy me my favorite candy bar. And then he thought we were all good again.

But this time I know what's coming. I am getting stronger and more independent here (her home country) and this is probably concerning her. I arranged my daughter's preschool and some babysitters completely on my own. My career is taking off. I don't really need to rely on her anymore.  

I'm so glad you're getting strong and independent and certainly that will be seen as a threat by her--might keep her on her best behavior?

pearls I don't think my feelings will ever be completely gone. Romantic, more or less, but there is familial love there. She is the mother of my children and we went through raising them together alone.

I understand this, even though I never had children with my first husband. No matter how awful his behavior was, I still wished him the best and appreciated the sometimes only tiny spark within him that was a kind, loving and good person.

After I ended the relationship, I kinda beat myself up for having stayed so long with someone who was so abusive to me. But all along, I still loved that small part of him that was good. Now, I'm just looking at those years as a function of habit and familiarity--and that I'm an incurable optimist.  

[Red5]

Afternoon Roland from the eastern seaboard of USA,

You sound a lot more stronger, this is good !

But overwhelming new job stress + BPD + kids in new situation is not going to be a good mixture for any of us. I expect incidents and lots of them that may push the situation towards a natural climax and resolution.

I have to tell you, once S2BexW was out of the picture, I felt a measurable degree of freedom, safety, and release, I remember those days all those years ago, taking care of my three little ones, cooking their meals, keeping the house up (apartment), .playing with them after work, taking them to the pool, getting them to bed, and then up again in the AM, and off to school, and me off to work, .wasn't easy, in fact exhausting, but I ate it up, it felt good!... .good to be finally free of her constant behaviors... .so when she finally left for good, some eleven years later, I was able to do it all again, for keeps!

I will continue consulting with a lawyer my father found with expertise in this country to be prepared for the worst. I have his unlimited financial support on this part if it comes to it.

I also remember this, finding a lawyer via personal contacts, and finally filing for divorce, .it felt good to have done this, self protection, .a measure of protection; peace of mind, .a new boundary from her demanding this and that, .ie' open marriage, destructive behaviors, and threats of divorce, constant manipulations... .I have often thought what my life, and my children's lives would have been like, had I stuck to my guns, and not allowed the eventual recycle that occurred, .water under the bridge now.

Stay strong Roland !... .and trust your gut my friend !

Red5

[Cat Familiar]

This song describes the feelings of a non dealing with an ex with a personality disorder. In no way am I meaning this as a “run” message, but rather it’s an excellent description of how heartbreaking it is to review such a relationship and think what it could have been, had our partner been emotionally healthy.

Feel free to change the gender in your mind:  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4HlnJgL3AwA

[Red5]

Tom Petty nailed it !

I remember getting lost in his music, .I used his music to self sooth after the kids were sound asleep so late at night, and it was just me and the little dog still awake... .

I remember letting my thoughts wonder off, and I would wonder where she was, and what she was doing, and why was this all happening, .two albums that are laser etched in my mind... ."Wild Flowers", and "Echo".

It still haunts me to this day when I hear his songs.

This ones on me Roland, enjoy !

https://www.you.tube.com/watch?v=_wcMYmNU3f8

Red5

[RolandOfEld]

Hi Red and Cat, thank you for the musical therapy. Found some catharsis in both.

Here is my anthem for the dad who is trying to do his best in a mess:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzJ2ORXoZA8


~ROE

[Cat Familiar]

Music has certainly been a huge support for me when in the midst of dealing with BPD crisis. When I was dealing with husband #1 and associated madness, I played Tom Petty's "I won't back down" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvlTJrNJ5lA and Incubus' "Drive" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgT9zGkiLig

[Harri]

This tread has been locked as it has reached the post limit.  Part 3 has been started and is located here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=328300.0;all