Boundaries question

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Howdy everyone,

Co-parenting has been quiet over the summer. But ... .a few days ago my D16 texted me while with UxBPDw asking if I could print some homework for her because UxBPDw was out of ink and at work and couldn’t do it. I figured it was her homework and no big deal so i did it.

Now tonight D16 texts me to say that she has to take a Lyft to school the next morning because UxBPDw can’t take her. D16 occasionally uses my account linked to my cc. D16 asks if she should pay for it or use my account. D16 has very little personal money. I say use my account.

I am beginning to feel taken advantage of. I take care of D16’s needs when she is with me, and I pay child support to help UxBPDw when she is with her. How do I handle communicating to D16 that when she’s staying with UxBPDw, UxBPDw is responsible for these things? Should I speak to D16 directly and say she needs to work it out with UxBPDw? Should I BIFF to UxBPDw that I will no longer pay for rides or print homework when in her care? Does this put D16 in the middle of the conflict? What would you do?

Thank you!

[RedPill]

Howdy everyone,

Co-parenting has been quiet over the summer. But ... .a few days ago my D16 texted me while with UxBPDw asking if I could print some homework for her because UxBPDw was out of ink and at work and couldn’t do it. I figured it was her homework and no big deal so i did it.

Now tonight D16 texts me to say that she has to take a Lyft to school the next morning because UxBPDw can’t take her. D16 occasionally uses my account linked to my cc. D16 asks if she should pay for it or use my account. D16 has very little personal money. I say use my account.

I am beginning to feel taken advantage of. I take care of D16’s needs when she is with me, and I pay child support to help UxBPDw when she is with her. How do I handle communicating to D16 that when she’s staying with UxBPDw, UxBPDw is responsible for these things? Should I speak to D16 directly and say she needs to work it out with UxBPDw? Should I BIFF to UxBPDw that I will no longer pay for rides or print homework when in her care? Does this put D16 in the middle of the conflict? What would you do?

Thank you!

[Panda39]

RedPill,

I don't know that sending a message to the ex is a good idea... .it's just likely to create drama.

This is hard, but I would let your ex and daughter work out what happens at moms house.  It's sucks when the other parent lets the kids down, but that is on them.  Mom needs to get ink for her printer, if she can't your daughter will need to be sure she has printed her own homework before going to moms, or go to the library, or ask a friend etc... .your daughter will learn to adapt to get her needs met when mom fails.  

Your ex is an adult, she is responsible for your daughters needs when she is over there, it isn't your job to rescue the ex from her own poor planning.

That said if mom fails at something really important to your daughter and her well-being (your daughter needs supplies to complete a final that is 50% of her grade for example) then yes you might need to jump in... .or pick up the pieces.  But having the tools to do homework and getting your daughter to school are basic parenting and to me don't rise to the level of urgent/highly important.

I would not engage your ex and the next request I would say no, that your daughter is a mom's and it's her responsibility to handle the situation. Put the responsibility back on her mother.  Be aware that mom will likely blame shift and put the blame on you... .your such a bad dad for not printing daughter's homework!  Well what about her inability to have the needed supplies on hand?

By putting this kind of behavior back on your daughter and her mother you have actually taken your self off the triangle (which is where this kind of stuff puts you... .rescuer) and puts the issue where it should be with the two of them.  You have taken your daughter out of the middle by removing yourself.

This is just one Panda's opinion, others may have other/better suggestions.

Panda39



 

[kells76]

That's tricky... .

On the one hand, it sounds like your D is doing the best she can to problem-solve. I.e., she's not just not turning in her HW or not going to school. She's trying to figure out how to get it done, finds out from Mom first that Mom doesn't have the resources, so turns to you. It sounds like she's trying to be responsible about it (asking if she should pay for the Lyft).

I get, though, the part about not "rescuing" D from Mom's lack of abilities, and not "covering" for Mom.

Is your D old enough where you could have a conversation with her about this -- something like "It's important to me that when you're at Mom's, I don't overstep into Mom's life (or something). I think you're doing a great job trying to figure out your school responsibilities when you're there. Printing the HW and using the Lyft got you through last time, and I've thought about it a little more since then. Let's work out some plans where you can: print HW at school ahead of time, work out a carpool with your friend when you're at Mom's, etc, etc. What do you think?"

Would that be a helpful direction to go?

Tough stuff. It can be hard to know when to step in and when to stand back. DH has bought groceries for the kids at Mom's house before.

... .

Added: I think this raises a bigger question for me, and probably for other members -- when the kids turn to us (non-BPD parents/steps) for resources after not getting needs met with u/BPD parents, what's best for the kids in terms of what we do for them? Isn't there some healthiness in the kids recognizing that they're just kids, they have needs that have to be met, and the healthy parent is the one to do it? I can also get the other side of things, that it's "rescue" behavior, but... .something doesn't sit right with me if the answer is "sorry kid, you'd better figure it out yourself" (which I know is kind of an overstatement, but you get it, right?)

[worriedStepmom]

I print my D12's homework all the time.  I have a color printer and her dad does not.  Often she will do the work at his house, email it to me, and ask me to print.  I don't see a problem with that at all.

In our case, whether a parent is accommodating depends on whether the issue is a) mom's/dad's poor planning, b) kid's poor planning, c) basic logistical issue.

My biokids and stepkid go to school in my district; their other parents live about 20-30 minutes away.  We have a basic logistical issue - the other parents work in the opposite direction of the school and have fairly rigid work schedules.  I work at home and my schedule is very flexible. So all the kids typically are dropped off at my house in the morning.  They either ride the bus, or, if they have an early activity, I drive them to school.  

A few weeks ago, D12 told me on a Tuesday night that she needed black volleyball kneepads for Thursday morning.  That was her poor planning.  I didn't have time at 7 pm on Tue to run out and buy kneepads with her.  She was with her dad on Wed night, and he had plans for them that didn't involve a run to the sporting goods store.  D12 had to figure out a solution (and she did - she borrowed a pair from a friend).

If it's mom's/dad's poor planning... .then yes, we often rescue the kids.  I've had to reschedule plans to take SD to an activity because mom backed out at the last minute.  I've also had to tell a kid, "I'm sorry, I can't take you to X because I already committed to Y and I don't have a way to get out of it."  For the most part, we do try to rescue, because they are kids and that's our job.  And, if we end up doing the bulk of the parenting during mom's time... .that's more evidence that maybe mom needs less parenting time because she can't handle it.

What other solutions could your D have looked for?  I have a hard time believing that Uber was her only choice to get to school if mom couldn't drop her off.

[Panda39]

Is your D old enough where you could have a conversation with her about this -- something like "It's important to me that when you're at Mom's, I don't overstep into Mom's life (or something). I think you're doing a great job trying to figure out your school responsibilities when you're there. Printing the HW and using the Lyft got you through last time, and I've thought about it a little more since then. Let's work out some plans where you can: print HW at school ahead of time, work out a carpool with your friend when you're at Mom's, etc, etc. What do you think?"

I like this.  Help daughter problem solve because frankly she's got to learn to negotiate her mom the best she can because she's going to need to do it as long as she has her mom in her life.

Added: I think this raises a bigger question for me, and probably for other members -- when the kids turn to us (non-BPD parents/steps) for resources after not getting needs met with u/BPD parents, what's best for the kids in terms of what we do for them? Isn't there some healthiness in the kids recognizing that they're just kids, they have needs that have to be met, and the healthy parent is the one to do it? I can also get the other side of things, that it's "rescue" behavior, but... .something doesn't sit right with me if the answer is "sorry kid, you'd better figure it out yourself" (which I know is kind of an overstatement, but you get it, right?)

It is tricky to me too... .that awful rock and hard place!  It's choosing what warrants stepping in and it's about boundaries at the same time.  Yes it's easy for Redpill to print the homework, yes his daughters school work is important, yes he could do it for his daughter those reasons and to avoid conflict. Maybe in this situation he does it or maybe he does it once or twice, but part of the concern here is that mom makes this a habit... .boundary busting where you give an inch and they take a million miles.  Mom learns that school work is leverage to get dad to take care of things that are not his responsibility and I agree his daughter can't always be left hanging in the breeze.  I think it is situational and when these situations involve meeting a child's basic needs it becomes even more complicated. 

There are also just natural consequences to things sometimes.


I like worriedStepmom's breakdown... .

In our case, whether a parent is accommodating depends on whether the issue is a) mom's/dad's poor planning, b) kid's poor planning, c) basic logistical issue.

Panda39

[livednlearned]

I am beginning to feel taken advantage of.

This sounds like a RedPill/D16 issue, with lots of room for the two of you to establish good validation habits (you toward her) and some limit setting to help her make her way without a fully functioning mom.

"Sure, feel free to use the printer here. Can you toss some money toward ink -- it's expensive to replace these darn things. If you're short on cash, let's think of some stuff around the house so you can earn money."

"The Lyft rides are becoming a thing. What's up?"

Let her explain what's happening and see if she (or both of you together) can come up with a way to manage it so that she takes responsibility with your support, rather than it turning into a dad-to-the-rescue program.

It's good you recognize something is off. There's usually a middle way that let's us model what it looks like to take responsibility while supporting them. My son is 17 and I try to think of what he would experience from a roommate so he isn't completely shocked by how others expect him to treat their stuff.

[david]

If the lyft thing becomes a regular occurrence I would make sure to have documentation. It may be possible to go to court to get it taken from support especially if it approaches a significant" amount.
IF it gets too large and you go back to court ex could turn around and argue you can afford it since you already have or that support should be increased. That needs to be run by an attorney.
My ex pays for our sons lunch at school. It runs 5 dollars a day so that totals near 900 for a school year. She sent me an email last year asking me to pay my half. I agreed provided she pay her half of the health insurance that I am paying. I never heard from her about it after that. I would have made out much better and she knew that. We never had these things spelled out in our court order and they simply developed. We have a precedent so a change could require more than one change.