Enmeshment

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Enmeshment is a huge factor in BPD.  Parents, pwBPD and their children all get caught in this unhealthy web of pathology.

My uBPD/uNPD H is horribly enmeshed with his adult children.  He treats his daughters like mistresses in my company, either painting me black (while painting them white) and treats his son, who is an alcoholic and drug addict, like a drinking buddy.  His relationship to them is very financial.  He doles out thousands of dollars in gifts to them and their children:  cars, rent money, luxury goods, rehab money and money for bail.  This gifting is in the thousands of dollars.  In order to keep the approval of his children, H must offer up money.  As teen and very young adults, his children routinely blackmailed him in order to get money or gifts.  This is now extended to the grandchildren who fawn on grand father, butter him up, and hint for money.

As with splitting, he can't both love me and his children at the same time.  This is like the BPD parent painting one child white ("good") and the other black ("bad.")  When I am with H and his children, I am either invisible and treated like I don't exist, or painted black and barely even given conversation.

H has confided our marital woes to his children, and they have told me to my face that they don't like me "using" their father.  H opened his mouth and thereby granted his children permission to have a measure of control in our marriage.  In a nutshell, their mother is mostly likely uNPD, a perfect foil for a BPD husband.  She filed for divorce after several affairs with the last one leading to her marrying her lover.  (The lover was also married with children.)

Does anyone else have a spouse who is enmeshed with his/her children to the point of pathology?

[AskingWhy]

Enmeshment is a huge factor in BPD.  Parents, pwBPD and their children all get caught in this unhealthy web of pathology.

My uBPD/uNPD H is horribly enmeshed with his adult children.  He treats his daughters like mistresses in my company, either painting me black (while painting them white) and treats his son, who is an alcoholic and drug addict, like a drinking buddy.  His relationship to them is very financial.  He doles out thousands of dollars in gifts to them and their children:  cars, rent money, luxury goods, rehab money and money for bail.  This gifting is in the thousands of dollars.  In order to keep the approval of his children, H must offer up money.  As teen and very young adults, his children routinely blackmailed him in order to get money or gifts.  This is now extended to the grandchildren who fawn on grand father, butter him up, and hint for money.

As with splitting, he can't both love me and his children at the same time.  This is like the BPD parent painting one child white ("good") and the other black ("bad.")  When I am with H and his children, I am either invisible and treated like I don't exist, or painted black and barely even given conversation.

H has confided our marital woes to his children, and they have told me to my face that they don't like me "using" their father.  H opened his mouth and thereby granted his children permission to have a measure of control in our marriage.  In a nutshell, their mother is mostly likely uNPD, a perfect foil for a BPD husband.  She filed for divorce after several affairs with the last one leading to her marrying her lover.  (The lover was also married with children.)

Does anyone else have a spouse who is enmeshed with his/her children to the point of pathology?

[WileyCoyote]

My Mother goes to my Older Brother's house (who is 46 years old, on his third marriage, with a 29yr old  ) and cleans his house up for him.  Not quite the same... .but geesh.

[Cat Familiar]

The closest example I could come up with was my late mother's relationship with my cousin, who is a couple of years younger than me.

In a nutshell, my mother decided that my musician cousin was much more attuned to her values than I was. He played right into that because his music gigs weren't enough to live on and he really didn't want to teach, unlike his colleagues. So he sucked up to her and she gave him money. And then she compared me unfavorably to him, even though I never asked her for financial help.

My thought was that he was worming his way into her heart so that she would make him the beneficiary of her assets after she died. It didn't work. After my dad passed away (and I think he saw my cousin's manipulation clearly), her dementia went into overdrive and I had to move her hundreds of miles near me.

Since I'd never gotten along well with my cousin, I didn't see the need to contact him and I figured if he were really interested in her, he'd find out her new address. All it would take would be to send her a letter and it would be forwarded at the post office. Didn't happen.

[jsgirl360]

Yes... .oh yes! I've read your previous posts and can relate completely... .almost eerily. My husband has one adult son who's a drug addict and another who was kicked out of the military.  Both sons have landed in jail at some point,  one hospitalized several times for self-harm due to BPD.

My husband's adult children blame him for the divorce.  Husband feels like the divorce is the cause of his adult children's dysfunction.  (Personally I believe growing up with a BPD parent may have contributed. )

It is the same way for me. If his children are white, I have to be black.  And the sons know this and take advantage.  Sadly,  other than money, his sons don't seem to have any use for him. (I'm sure husband's BPD behavior during their childhood could be a reason.)  They will go many months without contacting or acknowledging their father.  However, once they're in a bind and need some money or a place to stay, they're calling his phone repeatedly.

Despite this obvious lack of regard,  husband will give them thousands,  buy them cars, even open up our house for them to stay for months without first asking my opinion.  On top of that, BPDh doesn't have lots of money and is already thousands in credit card debt. Still, he will do anything for his sons. If I so much as raise an eyebrow,  it can lead to a dysregulation.

[AskingWhy]

Yes... .oh yes! I've read your previous posts and can relate completely... .almost eerily. My husband has one adult son who's a drug addict and another who was kicked out of the military.  Both sons have landed in jail at some point,  one hospitalized several times for self-harm due to BPD.

My husband's adult children blame him for the divorce.  Husband feels like the divorce is the cause of his adult children's dysfunction.  (Personally I believe growing up with a BPD parent may have contributed. )

It is the same way for me. If his children are white, I have to be black.  And the sons know this and take advantage.  Sadly,  other than money, his sons don't seem to have any use for him. (I'm sure husband's BPD behavior during their childhood could be a reason.)  They will go many months without contacting or acknowledging their father.  However, once they're in a bind and need some money or a place to stay, they're calling his phone repeatedly.

Despite this obvious lack of regard,  husband will give them thousands,  buy them cars, even open up our house for them to stay for months without first asking my opinion.  On top of that, BPDh doesn't have lots of money and is already thousands in credit card debt. Still, he will do anything for his sons. If I so much as raise an eyebrow,  it can lead to a dysregulation.

Wiley and Cat, it's sad how pwBPD become prey for others and, in turn, do the same to their children.

jsgirl360, I know uBPD/uNPD H's X W is most likely NPD herself.  As she had total custody of the children and raised them, they are all in the BPD and NPD spectrum.

When young adults, H's children all banded together and petitioned my H to divorce me.  To this day, any mention of his X W will cause H to dysregulate.  (She cheated on him while he was overseas in the military, so that is a sore spot.)

As with you, it's always about money and gifts, and H's children will play him like a violin and butter him up and gush all over him.  Then the wallet comes out.  After they get their money, they can't even send a Father's Day card on time.  They treat him like trash.  

 

[jsgirl360]

AskingWhy... .

My BPDh's grown children are the same way with Father's Day cards/birthday cards.  I believe one of them posted "Happy Father's Day" on his Facebook wall, the other didn't acknowledge him at all.

Another example of just how enmeshed he is with his adult children:

His younger son (age 32... .diagnosed with BPD... .multiple hospitalizations) has a habit of impulsively getting on planes and flying to 3rd world countries with little prior planning.  Once there,  he will stay a few months. Then when he ends up homeless, or in some kind of bad situation, he messages my husband demanding money for a plane ticket home.  Once he arrives back home, he expects my husband to house him, feed him, buy him a car, etc.

One of the times he took off, he deserted the military.  So he was considered a felon. Despite this, my husband continued to wire him thousands of dollars to fund his world travels. At one point husband asked me if he could get in trouble for knowingly wiring money overseas to a felon. I told him YES, but he continued to send money anyway.

This last time he left, he sold the (nice!) car that my husband had given him for a plane ticket to the Philippines.  He left without even a goodbye to his father. Actually,  my BPDh had to find out through hearsay that his son had taken off again.
In the past 6 months, he has sent his father maybe 2 short messages.  However,  as soon as he wants to come home, my husband will pay for everything.

Another thing in regards to enmeshment. Like many BPD's... .my husband doesn't have definite interests or opinions of his own (lack of identity). So instead, he adopts all of his younger son's opinions.  This includes religion and politics... .and his son has some pretty extreme views.  If tomorrow his son were to suddenly say he was converting to - just an example - Hinduism, my husband would be researching it and converting himself.

Wow I wrote a lot. It felt good to vent that out. Just know that you're not alone!

[AskingWhy]

.

Another thing in regards to enmeshment. Like many BPD's... .my husband doesn't have definite interests or opinions of his own (lack of identity). So instead, he adopts all of his younger son's opinions.  This includes religion and politics... .and his son has some pretty extreme views.  If tomorrow his son were to suddenly say he was converting to - just an example - Hinduism, my husband would be researching it and converting himself.

Wow I wrote a lot. It felt good to vent that out. Just know that you're not alone!

Thank you, jsgirl360, for validating my observations.  Like your H, my H also has no identity.  He looks up to his friends for many opinions, but at least his politics are stable.  He does not, however, have identity in other areas.  Cars, clothing and other decisions are made by copying friends, even down to the neighborhood he wants to live in.  Recently he went to a concert with one of his daughters (he paid hundreds of dollars for the tickets even though she "invited" him) and he ended buying a souvenir t-shirt and hat for her and himself.  He is wearing the hat almost every day now, and the shirt is worn several times a week.  Really?  Very silly, but it's as though he really can't decided who he is. 

[jsgirl360]

Thank you, jsgirl360, for validating my observations.  Like your H, my H also has no identity.  He looks up to his friends for many opinions, but at least his politics are stable.  He does not, however, have identity in other areas.  Cars, clothing and other decisions are made by copying friends, even down to the neighborhood he wants to live in.  Recently he went to a concert with one of his daughters (he paid hundreds of dollars for the tickets even though she "invited" him) and he ended buying a souvenir t-shirt and hat for her and himself.  He is wearing the hat almost every day now, and the shirt is worn several times a week.  Really?  Very silly, but it's as though he really can't decided who he is. 

I can completely relate to BPDh's lack of identity.  Once, during a icebreaker at a work training, he told me everyone had to answer questions about themselves (favorite place to travel, etc.) Husband told me he had given all my favorites as answers, because he didn't know what his answers would be. Very sad.

My BPDh doesn't have any close friends,  as he has such a difficult time connecting with people.  So everything is about is younger adult son, who he idealized.  Right now that particular son is in another country, so I'm sure he must feel lost right now.

Yes that is very silly about husband wearing a hat and Tshirt from a concert he wouldn't normally like. Still, I could see my BPDh doing the same exact thing.

[Cat Familiar]

My husband has started smoking expensive cigars because his friend gave him cigars and a humidor. Yuck... .

[Turkish]

AskingWhy,

It sounds very painful to deal with these dynamics. Wife and husband should be a primary relationship. Not kids, not exes, not parents.

I don't know how much this may help,  but I recently started reading this book,  got 75% of the east through it last weekend.  It may help at least validate your feelings;

When Parents Make Children Their Partners - Kenneth M. Adams, PhD

[AskingWhy]

Cat and Turkish, I know the dynamic clearly, but those trapped in it or perpetrating it are in denial.

My uNPD FIL is to blame for much of H's uBPD:  non-favored child, closer to his mother who is now dead.  Father is elderly and still alive, and H in denial.  H had admitted briefly that his FOO is "dys functional" and his F is "strange," but no more than that.

Turkish, thank you for the book link.  I doubt my H will be interested in this due to his denial.  I have a brother who is enmeshed with his adult son who is almost 30.  They do everything together.  My brother even manages his adult son's medical issues to the point where the son does not even know the medications and dosages he is taking.  The young man just blindly takes the pills that are set out for him.  

It is truly disgusting to watch the two of them sit side by side in a restaurant and eat off of each other's plates.  The son is the adult man's surrogate spouse.  My brother has not dated since the son was born; the mother was a drug addict who left when the son was still an infant. It's a very unhealthy situation.  In the meantime, my brother enables his son.  The son has quit work and dropped out of college and is now addicted to online gaming where he goes to bed at all hours of the morning and gets up at three in the afternoon.  On my brother's days off from work (he works full time) he is driving his son around shopping for games, clothing and expensive electronic gadgets.  It's unreal.

At least my H's children are all living on their own and out of our house.  The apron strings are still there but happily a lot longer.