Is food a trigger for anyone?

[formflier]

Notwendy

It's interesting peeking into the world of others.  Is your hubby an acts of service guy?  (love language)

I'm wondering if you couldn't use the food thing to butter him up from time to time? 

Also... I've got a "dare" for you.  Instead of bringing it up to him again and have him said (quite accurately) "I'm doing nothing... "... .I think you should give him the book

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Red_Hen

Let the story talk to him... instead of you. 

Then... when he sees kids and other people that have "helped" make the (fill in the blank) and those that don't help... .(do nothing... get nothing)... .he might connect some dots.

Circling back to the butter him up idea.  Have you ever tried to cut a deal with him.  In exchange for you doing dinner exactly like he likes it... .he will do (blank) exactly how you like it (something that matters to you that isn't happening to your satisfaction right now)

Thoughts?

I'll tell food stories from my FOO and house a bit later... .I like this thread!

FF

[Cat Familiar]

I don't think my husband realized how much work it is to cook every night until we started doing that meal delivery service. The amount of work is minimal compared to planning meals, shopping for ingredients, cooking from scratch, etc.  Instead, though we get fresh veggies, meat or veggie proteins, also included are a variety of sauces, interesting exotic seasonings and spice blends, and unusual ethnic ingredients that would take a lot of hunting to find locally, if even available. So the actual work of making a meal has been minimized.

Still my husband will huff and puff and complain about how "hard" it is, yet in my mind, they've really dumbed down the process so that anybody can do it and be successful.

I do all the chopping and prep work, and as he's cooking things on the stove, I clean up and put as many of the dishes as possible in the dishwasher. By the time that dinner is ready, there's almost nothing left to clean, other than a pan or two.

Since I had worked in restaurants, I learned how to clean as I worked, which was really irritating to him when we used to try and cook together in the past. It unnerved him that I would clean up when he was nearby, as if I was intruding on his personal space. But if I didn't participate on those few occasions when he would actually try and make dinner, there would be nearly every pot and pan sitting dirty on the counter. It was truly a marvel how someone could make such an enormous mess for such a small amount of cooking.

But having participated with me for several months on this collaborative meal making, he now is learning to put his dirty dishes into the dishwasher, rather than just leaving them on the counter for "later". It was one of those areas when trying to talk about "kitchen strategies" just incited angry replies, but he's learned by watching me instead of listening to what I was saying.

However we've gotten to this point of peaceful cooperation, I'm truly glad. It was a real bone of contention not long ago.

[Red5]

LoL ! 

https://m.you.tube.com/watch?v=3kaI3jQ6W8w

Red5

[AskingWhy]

Early in my marriage to uBPD/uNPD H, over 20 years ago, I noticed that some of his rages centred around food. 

One time, he left a half of a sandwich in the refrigerator for several days.  Thinking he did not want it and not wanting it to go to waste, I ate it.  When H went looking for it and learned I ate it, H flew into a rage.  The rage was way out of proportion to the incident.  Really?  Rage over half of a sandwich?

At times I got home from work earlier than him, but there were small chores to do (cat litter boxes, for one), mail and correspondence to sort through, and dinner was not always ready when H walked in the door from work.

H would fly into rages when food was not ready for him when he walked through the door after work.  On the times when I would cook meals in time for him to come home, he'd snarl he wanted a cocktail first, and said heating food is what microwaves are for.  (Contradictions/double binds are common in BPDs.)

I noticed the rage was correlated to whether or not H had lunch or not, and must have been hungry.  He frequently works through lunch (he's a masochistic workaholic) and won't eat when he's on a project.  I have tried to give him snacks to keep in his locker, such as crisps or candy nut bars, but he chooses not to eat them.  As BPDs are emotionally infants, they can get cranky when they are hungry, I have concluded.

Now when H launches in a rage after work, with threats of divorce and personal insults on me as a wife, I simply reply, "You must have skipped lunch because you're b*tchy.  Knock it off.  Now."  Then H is silent.  I fix him a small appetiser to keep him until dinner, such as cheese and crackers.



o

[Red5]

Tonight I made porkloin, bake (microwave) gold potatoes, and seasoned okra/corn/beans (out of the can), with Arizona ice tea to drink... .it was good, and my Son always eats whatever I put in front of him,

As myself and uBPDw are now practically separated but still living under the same roof, I did offer but she declined the chow I fixed up, .there are enough leftovers for lunch tomorrow, for me at work.

I still need to go in and clear it up, as there is not enough to run the dishwasher... .I’ll jist wash the few dishes up in the sink... .

It’s going to get down to freezing here tonight... .so I need to move few plants off the back porch and into the garage... .

I also went to the grocery store after work for a few “sundries”... .

I still need to prepare my Son’s lunch for his day program before I go to sleep tonight... .so the morning is not too stacked, also need to put the coffee on for in the morning,

I have been wanting to put on a pot of beans for a while now... .maybe I’ll do that in the morning, if I soak them tonight I could put them into the crockpot in the morning... .

Need to put some more would in the fireplace... .I still got a few pieces on the back porch... .I’ll need to get some more in from the wood pile after work tomorrow... .

Yeah, beans and cornbread for supper tomorrow maybe,

I like this time of the night, it’s quiet and peaceful... .

When uBPDw and I were dating she claimed to love my cooking, but soon after we married that changed... .and as long as I was not split black she would cook for me and the boy... .but it was... .and still is “sporadic”... .

We do (well we did) order out a lot too... .

Ok, almost time to get ready for bed... .one of the stray cats has claimed my couch : )

I’ll have to “move” her... .the old stray dog and the both the stray cats really love  the fireplace... .

Need to go and soak them beans too!

Better get up off my butt and get movnin here!

Red5

  

[defogging]

These stories are interesting to hear, as always it's so nice to know I'm not the only one dealing with this stuff!

I can add another common thing in our house that centers around dinner, it happened again this evening.  uBPDw took the girls to dance, and had our son too.  They get home at 6:30, and I usually have dinner made for the kids.  They walk in tonight, and say "oh, we already ate".  Sometimes they get fast food and don't tell me about it, it happens about 20% of the time.

In the past this would make me very upset, due to lack of communication and lack of respect.  I've tried to get uBPDw to communicate with me.  I've asked her to let me know if they go out to eat and she never does.  I've texted her and asked "will you guys need dinner tonight?" and get no reply.  If I get no reply, she'll still get mad if I don't have dinner for them when they arrive.

Tonight I decided to change my tactic.  I calmly told uBPDw that I'm just as busy as she is, and my time is too valuable to make a second dinner that won't be eaten by anyone.  I'm happy to make dinner, but from now on I'm going to assume they have eaten already unless I hear from her that they need food.  I will follow through on it too.  Her poor communication has been an ongoing problem, usually her FOO is much more aware of my family's schedule than I am.  I can't play the game anymore.

[SweetCharlotte]

Interesting topic. I can understand how power struggles over food preparation and being served or not served can be a big thing for notwendy and others involved with pwBPD.

My uBPDh struggles with binge-eating and the resulting weight problems as part of his self-destructive behavior, so food is an inescapable issue. We have a long-distance relationship, and in his household he doesn't keep food around, because he would immediately eat it. I don't have that choice, even when he is visiting me, because I have 2 children (S21 and D15). So I must always stock food, and prepare meals several times a day. This drives him crazy. He will get up hours before I do and start eating everything.

I try to help him by stocking less fattening foods that he likes. But he eats those in addition to the others! It's a health issue with him because he often verges on obesity, and has very high cholesterol. So he accuses me (or the relationship) of making his health worse.

In addition, when he visits me he doesn't get his exercise, so his weight goes up because of that too. The only exercise he likes to do is walking for miles and miles in the city where he lives. He doesn't enjoy walking in my suburb at all. I have a health club membership, and he could use the treadmills or other machines there, but that is not to his liking either. When he is in my home, most of the day he sits in an armchair and watches Law & Order reruns (he doesn't have a TV in his home).

We are on the outs, pretty much NC, and haven't seen each other in two months. He did email me his weight chart the other day, and he has been steadily losing weight. I'm glad, but this means that if he were to visit me again, he would gain weight and blame it on the visit.

[Notwendy]

Rather than the Little Red Hen, the book that I thought of is an old gag book called "Porn for Women" (G-rated) with pictures of good looking men doing dishes, vacuuming, and other tasks. People are critical of it now, calling it "sexist" which it actually is but I can see the appeal. Reading some of your posts- you guys are those men, and I am sorry that your efforts don't seem to be as noticed by your wives. However, I think you are investing in your children and I think that is commendable. They will notice and remember that.

Cat, I am glad you have come to this place with your H. Perhaps that will be a possibility when my H retires. For now, he does work hard and if I am home at meal times, which I usually am, I do cook dinner. I want to feel as if I am contributing. I would say his love language is acts of service for him. The resentment came in not from doing these things as much as feeling they didn't make an impression- not able to fill a bucket with a hole in it. It was the rages when I didn't do something, or when I asked for help on occasion that took away the pleasure in these tasks. I like to cook, but I not cooking to "keep the peace" if that makes sense.  I've done some work on my own co-dependency. I feel I did go overboard in people pleasing and so became sensitive to doing that. We are doing much better since I got a better handle on the co-dependent behavior. Yet, I still think I default to that during holidays when everyone is home at one time and not busy with usual routines.

This is interesting as I thought the two most difficult issues in a marriage are sex and money and didn't consider food, but these posts remind me that my BPD mother has food issues- binge eating and also being controlling about food. Food is connected to memories and emotions so I can see how it could become an issue.

[BetterLanes]

Hi Fie,

Thanks for picking that up. My H just about manages not to say those words to my DD's face, although he will tell her that she needs to snack less and exercise more. He will say them to me when she is out of the room, and blame me for her weight. She is overweight, like I was as a child. However there is a family history on both sides of teenage disordered eating, including myself, my mother (probably), and my H's sister, so my H's proposed solution of "She just needs to eat less" is not the approach I want to encourage. She has just started at secondary school and is taking more responsibility and interest in her food (packing her own lunches and doing cookery lessons) so my plan is to encourage her to make increasingly healthy choices.

Hi Red5,

It is pretty shocking, isn't it. You are a gentleman, and the men in your family/culture were raised to be gentlemen. The behavior you describe is the behavior of a gentleman. Sadly that's not universal and in the UK these days it is pretty rare to find a man who was raised that way below the upper social classes. Most can do polite when in company/public, but that aspect of specific consideration for and protection of females has gone missing in the name of equality. I know ours described on here are particularly bad examples, but in the case of my H I think if he had had that attitude modelled to him he might have been able to keep it up to a certain extent.

Hi Notwendy,
I agree it is a routine and control thing, and I was reading about "expectation violation" as a particular problem with pwASD. My H will show some distress if the meal isn't what he thought it would be, or if I have served a different kind of accompaniment to usual (mashed instead of baked potatoes for example). I am also totally with you on this:

Notwendy >> It was the rages when I didn't do something, or when I asked for help on occasion that took away the pleasure in these tasks. I like to cook, but I not cooking to "keep the peace" if that makes sense.

- I love to cook and it is really the nearest thing I have to a hobby, but when the responses are demands, criticism, complaints, and helping only ever on their terms (with complaints throughout as you say Cat Familiar), it is hugely offputting over time. My rule of thumb was that the more effort I would put into cooking a dish, the more likely my H was to have a major complaint about it. Our menus are now very repetitive, I think in the last two years I have tried out one new main course recipe, and I don't make cakes, cookies, etc. for DD and my H except for the holidays. The old saying is "Kissin' wears out, cookin' don't"... .well the cookin' has worn out so I don't know if that saying goes anywhere else afterwards

BetterLanes x

[formflier]

So... ."food issues" in my house are relatively minor compared to stuff in this thread.

I've had to (we all have) make adjustments for D7.  Macroni and Cheese are her "go to" along with a peanut butter sandwich with some Nutella ("tella"  is how she says it).  She is our 7th child and the first one we've had to alter our "food rules" for.

For us... .food is about respecting the person that prepared it.  That means trying everything and not wasting food.  Cleaning your plate used to be the "rule".  Or... the plate got plastic wrap and go to fridge... .thus becoming your next snack.  Said another way... .I don't demand people eat a certain amount at a sitting... but you will eat what is prepared now or later (your choice) and express thanks to the cook.

My P has been a big help understanding a "stubborn child" D7.  Transitions can be tough for her... .so heads up is really... .really important.  "Hey... .we are going to eat dinner in 5 minutes" (this goes well).    Just announcing time for dinner with no heads up doesn't work well.  She is our "picky eater".  P has helped me understand this is not an area to have a power struggle.

I'm an only child and there was plenty of food when I grew up.  That means I could almost always count on going to the fridge for another taste of a favorite thing from a few days before.

I still make the mistake of saying outloud "Hey... where is that piece of (fill in the blank)"... to which any other person in the room starts snickering and saying it was in their tummy a few days ago or something like that.  We consume a lot of food in our house... .it's rare stuff goes to waste.  

I love to cook and cooked in a college cafeteria when I was in high school.  My favorite meals were when we had a group of 10 to 20 to cook for (some special meeting) because we would cook and "plate" the meals before servers took them in.  I occasionally still do stuff like that when we find a special deal on something.   For instance... we picked up some marked down fillet mignon at Sams a couple weeks ago.  Then went and bought some brandy so I could do the steaks in a "flaming pan"... .then reduced all the juices and stuff to a very "bold" peppercorn sauce to put on top of the steaks.  S10 was my main helper... .her really enjoyed torching off all the stuff in the pan...

https://youtu.be/3tA0Pd5C4TQ

That's what I made and how I made it.  And yes... I enforced that we have to have "outrageous french accents" the entire time we were making a steak "a soft as butter... ."

Cost per plate is a big deal in a big family.  We often have the older kids plan a meal where everything is new.  Even if green beans... perhaps a new way of fixing them.  Then we all sit around and act like food critics and figure out which ones are keepers and which ones "we'd rather not do again" and why.  We usually find one or two that are keepers.

Everyone gets it that food is a big deal and we try to do our best.  S18 has cooked a lot... but it's not his "thing".  So... .he was visiting family who then got sick... so he was trying to prepare the meal.  He calls Mommy and asks how to make mashed potatoes... which elicited a lot of derision from her.  He actually knew the basics of how to do it... .just didn't ask very well.  What he was trying to make sure he had right was the amounts of "goodies" that we often add to make them special.

Usually whoever cooks is immune from cleanup, although we (like Cat) practice clean as you go.  D13 is horrible at clean as you go.  In fact we banned her from solo cooking for a while because kitchen would turn into disaster area... .(I'm being polite here... it was bad... )

I suppose the one area there is some "dysfunction light" is me regularly preparing meals and having them ready the second my wife walks in the door from work.  I'm the SAHD now, but in reality have tons of other stuff on my plate as well (MBA work, real estate work, caring for disabilities).  So... often the meal is me supervising kids pulling something together, rather than doing it myself.    My wife will sometimes grump that I'm being lazy or "sitting around all day"... .but the core issue there really isn't the food and she makes the same comments in other areas of life too.  (note... these have died down a lot... since I really don't engage on them.  Plus... .my wife is a really good teacher and is getting lots of praise at work for how wells he does things.)

Anyway... .great thread... keep it up.  

FF

[formflier]

I suppose this question is for Notwendy and Betterlanes... perhaps to a lesser extent Cat Familiar.

Please understand... this comes from a my staring at these situations in amazement.  

Relevant history.  Early in our marriage (when things were "normal") I came home and the meal appeared ready on the stove, since I had to run back to the squadron for a night flight... .I grabbed food and started eating.  It was a bit crispy... .(some kind of chicken "helper" meal) and a bit "overdone".  Yet I consumed it.  My wife came in the house as I was finishing and I thanked her for the meal.  

She starts hugging and kissing on me... and kinda laughing because she thought she burned it and ruined it.  

It's a rare day for an unsolicited complaint to show up about food.  We do regularly solicit input on food.  "Hey... .I think there was too much of (fill in the blank) flavor in these ... what do you think?"

I guess Notwendy kinda did a boundary when she stopped or reduced cooking... .but I have to wonder what choice they would make if the choice was "eat and be thankful or be hungry and grumpy"  (or cook it yourself to your liking).

Another way of saying the complaint store is closed... .or at least you won't be listening or participating in complaints.

I suppose there has been a time or two when we enforced a kid being at the dinner table... quiet... with no food because of some crack or complaint they made.  I get it... forcing an adult to do that just doesn't work.  But... the mindset could be the same on the preparer side.  I don't serve food to ungrateful people.  Period.  No nuance... .I just don't do it.

Note... .I suppose this shows my same thinking... because as you guys know... my wallet doesn't open for ungrateful (or demanding) people either.  

Thoughts?

FF

[Enabler]

Great thread guys, highly amusing in parts.

For some preparing food is stressful, it involve co-ordination and as Notwendy pointed out earlier in the thread executive function. Also and I think this is the most critical bit for my wife, it attracts judgement... .is it good, is it bad, is it big enough, is it seasoned well, is it too spicy. I think my W hates cooking for me now, I've never been ignorant enough to not have a view on the food I eat so positive reactions tend to be ignored whilst negative reactions are the end of the world for her.

I freakin' love cooking, it's a culmination of all a persons adult training all rolled into one... .from financial considerations, to planning and shopping, timing, precision, handling weaponry, taste and execution... .when it all lines up boom boom boom it's awesome.

Here's a guess... .Non's are clean cookers and pwBPD are messy cookers. I'm pretty much washed up and wiped down by the time I served... .tidy kitchen, tidy mind.

Enabler

[formflier]

 ... .when it all lines up boom boom boom it's awesome.

 

Absolutely!  Exactly!

And it's easy to redeem yourself.  Every so often an effort falls short.  So... .try it again next week... .then compare.

FF

[Red5]

Here's a guess... .Non's are clean cookers and pwBPD are messy cookers. I'm pretty much washed up and wiped down by the time I served... .tidy kitchen, tidy mind.

Yup ! 

Red5

[Notwendy]

I'm a messy cook

But I do clean as I go along and clean up- as mostly I'm the one who cleans up, so sometimes I do it on my own time.

If we are done with dinner and I want to watch a show, I leave some pots/pans for myself the next day. Otherwise, I would spend most of my time in the kitchen in the evening.

In the early years of my marriage, my H would sometimes say " take a break from dishes tonight and watch the show with me. The "break" would be me not doing the dishes tonight and then doing them tomorrow. Basically, if I didn't do them, they would stay there until I did them. I used to wonder how he thought postponing dishes was a break and tried to explain that but he was convinced it was.  Yes, the kids can help but often they had homework, other activities.

I clean up after dinner, load dishwasher,  but sometimes, if there are some pots and pans, I rinse them, I decide to do them later but no later than before the next meal. Since I'm my own "boss" when it comes to dishes, I do them on my own schedule.

If I am not home, and he does fix something simple for himself, he leaves the pots or pans for me. However, he supports us and when I have asked for help, tells me I can't help him with his job and so this is fair to him and he would feel resentful otherwise.

After our meal, he will bring his dishes to the sink and clear his stuff off the table. But he will not put them in the dishwasher, or empty it.

FF, it isn't about appreciation or complaining that gets to me. I think it is in part, my own co-dependency and wanting to pull my own weight in the family. I don't have his earning capacity professionally and can't contribute financially like he does. I don't want to be perceived as being like my BPD mom who didn't do much of anything while Dad worked. Since his mom did everything in the home and basically waited on his father, I don't measure up to that, so to him, I don't do as much no matter what I do. He didn't have much to do with the hands on child raising. It was pretty much all my job. He didn't complain about the food, it was the raging if I didn't cook or asked him for help with dishes so I just took it all on to keep the peace.

[formflier]

Notwendy,

I get things are much different now that when "things were bad" in your marriage.  Am I correct in assuming that rages are over about food... .or do they still happen from time to time?

I suppose as I examine my reactions to your story... most of my focus in on what the kids are being taught... or not taught.

My kids may very well choose relationships where one or the other does the lions share of the work.  That will be a matter of choice not a "I don't know how or I've never done that before"

It sounds like your hubby was raised... .honestly... .without an ability to do kitchen work.  Is that what he wants for his children?  Is that what you want?

To take the same thinking into other areas.  All of my boys understand how to run a farm, use hand tools and all that.  I guarantee you that my oldest will live in a Condo... .but it's by choice... .not because he is unable to do things. 

Hey... not at all trying to be critical of you... .just trying to think outloud about this subject.

FF

[Notwendy]

Good question. I also worried about the lessons my kids learned from me. Yes, the rages have stopped but Dad doesn't do much in the kitchen.

My kids, ( male and female) can fend for themselves. They can do laundry, clean, cook, clean up, grocery shop. They also appear to have better boundaries than I have or had growing up.

Being the almost 100% hands on parent had a hidden blessing- they love their father and he is good to them, but the long talks and time spent with them were with me. Fortunately I began working on co-dependency some time ago and stopped being a total doormat. I've also been honest with them about myself- I don't talk about my H, but they do know about my mother, and that I am working on co-dependency. I don't hide that. My H adores the kids, but his father was, IMHO, emotionally stunted and I don't think my H would have been a good primary care giver. He has been a good role model as far as providing for a family and has good values and behavior in that sense.

The kids have minds of their own. I don't think any of them want the roles in their relationships that we have had. In ways, I feel like I was molded into a version of my H's mother just to keep the peace, yet, I also have domestic interests and want to be a hands on parent. I just didn't want it done in the way it was, out of fear of rages, and that pattern has been hard to undo. Also there's the default - I did a lot due to his refusal. Kids need to be fed,  dinner needs to be cooked and cleaned up. I would have done most of it anyway but the dynamics between us put a damper on the joy of doing it.

Does my H want anything different for his kids as far as roles in the home? I don't think he even thinks about that. I do think he has contributed a lot of positives to the kids as a father. I don't think he sees our arrangement as anything out of the ordinary, and he doesn't think I do anything out of the ordinary for him.

The kids have seen more than they let on and they don't want the same thing. I've tried very hard to reinforce their boundaries growing up and I hope that their good boundaries lead them to choices they will be happy with.

[Cat Familiar]

If I am not home, and he does fix something simple for himself, he leaves the pots or pans for me. However, he supports us and when I have asked for help, tells me I can't help him with his job and so this is fair to him and he would feel resentful otherwise.

After our meal, he will bring his dishes to the sink and clear his stuff off the table. But he will not put them in the dishwasher, or empty it.

FF, it isn't about appreciation or complaining that gets to me. I think it is in part, my own co-dependency and wanting to pull my own weight in the family. I don't have his earning capacity professionally and can't contribute financially like he does. I don't want to be perceived as being like my BPD mom who didn't do much of anything while Dad worked. Since his mom did everything in the home and basically waited on his father, I don't measure up to that, so to him, I don't do as much no matter what I do. He didn't have much to do with the hands on child raising. It was pretty much all my job. He didn't complain about the food, it was the raging if I didn't cook or asked him for help with dishes so I just took it all on to keep the peace.

Pretty good strategy, raging to get out of work! Obviously he realizes that a tactic like that is only useful in the home, not in the workplace.

This "I make more money than you do" is a specious argument and a poor excuse for not being a team player.

1. He was unwilling to do his part in parenting, so that left all the work to you
2. You had to quit your job in order to take care of the children, the house, the meal preparation
3. Had you continued with your employment, you might be making more money than he does

IMO, he's had the luxury of "only" working, while you took on the lion's share of responsibilities for your family.

And finally, if you were to document all the time you spend, now working at your part time job, taking care of the kids, your household responsibilities, and all the meal preparation you do, I would suspect that you work nearly double the hours that he does. How is that fair?

It's no wonder that you feel resentful for not having your contributions to the marriage fully appreciated. Anyone would feel the same if they were in your shoes.

Time flies, the kids will be out of the house, and then you two will be empty nesters, and still these ingrained behavioral patterns will be expected by him. I've seen many women seething with resentment when their husbands retire and they are still expected to be the household servant, while their husbands putter around, doing only things that interest them.

[Notwendy]

The kids are mostly out now Cat. College but close enough to be home sometimes. And the patterns are changing when it is just the two of us. Holidays though bring us all back to the original patterns and that is what got to me this past weekend. You are right on with the resentment.

Yes, you are also right on with your observation of my work in the home, but he doesn't see it that way. He still thinks the fact that he is chief wage earner as his contribution domestically and doesn't see it any other way and that doesn't change.  He will say he does consider it, but emotionally I don't think he gets it. Emotionally- normal is his mom waiting on his dad for their whole lives.

I decided long ago it wasn't worth breaking up a family over, and much is good about the marriage. Trying to change this had awful results- rages, silent treatments. Going back to work has done a lot for me mentally. I can manage with boundaries when it is just us, but I tend to revert to old keep the peace patterns over holidays as the kids are here and I realize I walk on eggshells when they are.

We are in for an interesting empty nest time... .

[Cat Familiar]

I decided long ago it wasn't worth breaking up a family over, and much is good about the marriage. Trying to change this had awful results- rages, silent treatments. Going back to work has done a lot for me mentally. I can manage with boundaries when it is just us, but I tend to revert to old keep the peace patterns over holidays as the kids are here and I realize I walk on eggshells when they are.

We are in for an interesting empty nest time... .

It makes sense not to upset the apple cart during the holidays. However, don't sell him short about being able to change. So his mom catered to his dad their entire marriage. Well, times change and perhaps he needs to learn to flow with the changes and so do you. Yes, rages and silent treatment is not fun, but they've worked with you. When they no longer work, then he might be willing to try a new strategy, such as "helping". Wouldn't that be amazing?

Speaking from experience, resentment such as you're feeling, doesn't go away on its own. It's a sign to you that what you're doing, or not doing, isn't working for you. And IMO, will get worse over time.

You're not the same person you were when you had your hands full with little kids, diapers, and all your other household responsibilities. You have far greater personal power than you did then, plus the benefit of wisdom from experience. You also understand personality disorders and you realize that certain communication patterns that work with healthy people, don't work with people with PDs, even people with only traits of a PD, such as your husband.

It's never pleasant to make big changes where it's likely that unpleasant behavior will be triggered. But you're in a position where you're feeling a lot of resentment and at some point, it's likely that you will want to resolve that. And certainly it's not a black and white situation--you don't need to "end" the marriage, but it would be nice if your husband could be willing to lend even a modicum of help for some tasks, after all the years you've carried the full burden yourself. He might be pleasantly surprised at how grateful and appreciative you'd be.

[Notwendy]

Cat, I think you just helped me to identify why the holiday felt so uncomfortable for me.

We did not have these kinds of family times together when I was growing up. For Thanksgiving, we went to a restaurant. My H's family holidays looked like right out of a Norman Rockwell picture to me. They were the kind of holiday I only dreamed about as a kid.

I had no idea what "normal" was. What are holidays at my in laws? Basically, Mom works around the clock cooking, cleaning, and making a ton of food. Women in the family help. FIL either is eating or sitting in the living room. The kids have a a great time.

For holidays I basically turned into his Mom and he reverts back to his family patterns. I also realize his work routine is a stable factor and when he is home, he gets antsy and hyper. I am over sensitive to this and go into walking on eggshell mode- but that isn't what I want to do right now. It feels a bit trapped though as I don't want to deal with possible raging when the kids are home. I also want it to be a nice holiday and I like to cook great food, but it seems I get emotionally back into that co-dependent place. Maybe this is the first time I really realized it.


Does this make sense?

Maybe Santa will bring him a cookbook ;)

[Red5]

If I am not home, and he does fix something simple for himself, he leaves the pots or pans for me. However, he supports us and when I have asked for help, he tells me I can't help him with his job and so this is fair to him and he would feel resentful otherwise.

... .oh' boy and 'really' on that one... .wow!

I work too, since I was a lad... .and now I'm fifty two... .if I even were to leave something in the sink, I'd say, "I got the mess duty tonight sugar pop!, now you go and relax ok, what's on TV tonight, .can I get you anything?"... .

Albeit I used to hear a lot from uBPDw when she was working too, as I usually got into the house first... .in the last couple of years of her career before she resigned it... .like... ."WHY didn't you put your lunch box dishes into the dishwasher, .do I have to do it all" (?)... .so I'd retort... ."look, -I- unload in the AM early, then reload and run in the evenings late, after everyone's had their bathroom time (hot water discipline)... .so don't worry about it, I got it ok"... ."is there anything I can get for you dear"... .that's when the fight would start, pre-BPD discovered time frame... .

And there was another issue, some pots, and pans don't go into the dishwasher, and I wanted to hand wash them, so I'd wait till I had a "load"... .then sort, then wash... .but to her (uBPDw), I was being "stupid", and or "lazy"... ."so says the accountant to the aviation ordnanceman I'd tell her"  !... .yeah, that's what I'd tell her, and I did it just pissed her off even more... but by that time, that was what my intent was... .most times when she got home, she was on the edge of road rage, and or work related rage... name the subject, she was "pissed" about, and you'd win every time ( Alex Trebek  )... .

After our meal, he will bring his dishes to the sink and clear his stuff off the table. But he will not put them in the dishwasher, or empty it.

Again... .(wow)... .so I would try to intercede, if she cooked, I'd ask if she "needed any help", if I cooked, and she asked... I'd say "no I'm good to go speed racer, here is a glass of wine, go sit down and relax; watch the news"... .and after supper, Id say, "I got the mess duty tonight"... ."so you are not allowed in the kitchen until cleanup, and mess and maintenance is "secured""... .as in, we cant really do anything together anyways... so... ."I got it babe, why don't you go and call your mom, or your daughter, or your son, or your sister... or watch TV"... as in I would like to enjoy my time alone in the kitchen... .

Towards the end, she would come back into the kitchen and "re-load / re-stack" the dishwasher ... .

I spent a few daze onboard ship, .I know how to "get round" in the kitchen, err... ."mess deck"... .my Granny would be proud of me !

https://www.you.tube.com/watch?v=V7P2QY48xzs

I imagine leaving my tray and dishes on the table in the mess hall, .what would have happened, if the mess Sergeant saw that  !... .what was the line from Sergeant Toomey... .Christopher Walken's character from the movie "Biloxi Blues (1988)... .he said to one of the young Privates in the mess hall... ."we eat all we want, and we eat all we take, and we police ourselves accordingly"... .or something like that ; )

Red5

[Cat Familiar]

If you’re interested in changing this dynamic between the two of you, after the holidays, when the kids aren’t around, then maybe we could plan a strategy that might help him to adjust his expectations of you.

A big part of implementing a change in the household procedures is to ask yourself how much distress you can tolerate. And you definitely don’t want to fall short of your goal and introduce intermittent reinforcement for raging and silent treatment.

You’ve already cut back on some of your cooking and he has to figure out how to feed himself on nights when you work late. You know he doesn’t like it, but he’s capable of doing it. What you need to work on is detaching yourself from his negative reaction when he has to fend for himself.

That was, and sometimes continues to be, my stumbling block. I want everyone to be happy, and more than that, to be happy with me, so that they’re not undermining my peace of mind.

That is my weakness. And knowing that, I can address it and self soothe when my husband is grumpy or dissatisfied with something I’ve done or haven’t done.

Truth be told, he gets over it far more quickly when I just let him “stew in his own juices” rather than when I used to try and make things better. He’s upset? Fine, let him be upset. Go about your own business and keep an upbeat mood. He will come around when he’s ready, or when he wants or needs something from you.

So you don’t have to go all Lyssistrata cooking-celibate, but you can install a new rule. “I’ll make your favorite meal if you chop the veggies for the salad.” Or, “I’m tired after working all day. You can help me with the dishes.”

I know you will say he will blow up and rage if asked to help, but if he does that, then you stop what you’re doing and say, “If you want dinner, then you’ll speak politely to me. Otherwise, I’m not cooking.”

I know this may be a step too far, considering your long term history, but you can adjust these suggestions to what you feel you might be able to successfully pull off.

My biggest hurdle was getting over the idea that by asserting my right to be treated fairly, I’d be seen as a witch with a b, or that I was somehow being unkind or unfair to him. After I got over that, then I had to make sure that I was in an emotionally balanced place, not feeling resentful or victimized, and then having a strategy that I could stick with and if that wasn’t working, to be able to calmly disengage and stay centered.

Resentment can only be tolerated so long before it starts undermining your relationship. Address its root causes, make changes in the way you do things, and you might be surprised at how much better things can become.

[Notwendy]

My stumbling block is that I am over sensitive to someone else's distress and also to the fact that he supports the family. It may be as much my problem as his, but it is something he has used for leverage in the past, not as much now but it still is tough to have heard it. I am not the kind of person to take advantage of that, and I have been responsible with money. It's very triggering to have someone assume that I am not pulling my weight in the house due to my experience with BPD Mom. She has such a sense of entitlement and I likely have gone to the other extreme.

I also don't enjoy an identity as a  housewife who likes to socialize and shop or those stereotypes. I'm more of a nerd in that sense and love my job because it is intellectually stimulating. I love being a mom and do the child care/house work out of love of that job, but I do not love these so called "wifely duties". I actually love to cook- for a partner, not an adult  who wants to be fed and served and then do the clean up.  I think it is actually tougher now that I don't need to do all the mothering for small kids. If I'm cooking for a family, it's cooking a big meal for everyone. Cooking for two adults is different.

It's a tough space to be in because he works more and still longer hours and comes home hungry. It feels cruel to not want to fix a nice dinner for him and I do appreciate what he does for us as a family. I don't expect him to cook for me- I don't want him to do that as I am the better cook or even clean up after dinner all the time but I would like to do this as a team some of the time. It's really hard to put my finger on what bugs me. I don't mind cooking  but I don't like to be caretaking an adult. I think it is also triggering for me to "serve" an adult as I had to wait on BPD mom and take care of her. That is not his fault for those feelings. It's also hard because this is his love language- being fed, catered to and he does feel hurt and neglected when I don't. I don't want to be hurtful. He's a good person and a caring father to the kids, so why can't I just do it and be OK with it? It's somehow tough.

But you are spot on. If I don't do something, the resentment will be an issue.

[Harri]

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