suggestions as to timing & how to approach non-communicative adult undiagnosed d

[Parents! Get help here!]

As I'm thinking through things, I'm wondering ... .if my daughter has stopped communicating with me (A - because she has gone off on a nasty tangenty rant and I'm am to blame for why she is no longer speaking to me OR B because she has simply stopped talking to me, but I have not been told why by her) ... .

1.  how long should/could I wait before trying again to reach out?
2.  I know 'less is more', but what should/could I stay that is kind, honest, and least likely to elicit a nasty response?
3.  how often do I try?
4.  AND, sadly I guess, should I even be trying (I feel like I should, hence the question)?

Our primary means of communication is texting, but she has told us before that when she blocks us from messaging applications, we may communicate through email should we wish to contact her.  BUT she has also said that her therapist and she discussed things and she has decided that we are the cause of all her suicide attempts.  SO, out of fear that we actually are the cause (okay - now I'm less concerned, but my poor husband is taking that comment seriously) will not communicate with her (or in my case am hesitant to reach out when she has blocked) at risk of putting her over the edge again.

But then my not talking to her is not my style ... .so after I have 'enjoyed' a bit of a break and am rejuvenated, I think I'm ready to step back in and take another chance ... .When, What, How do I try?

I'm still always kinda afraid of where the conversation will lead or how it will go or WHEN it will blow up.  It's what I imagine is like a PTSD experience on a very basic/simple level.  So I want to try to protect myself, but still let our daughter know we're still thinking of her and we really are here for her.

Ace

[Music Ace]

As I'm thinking through things, I'm wondering ... .if my daughter has stopped communicating with me (A - because she has gone off on a nasty tangenty rant and I'm am to blame for why she is no longer speaking to me OR B because she has simply stopped talking to me, but I have not been told why by her) ... .

1.  how long should/could I wait before trying again to reach out?
2.  I know 'less is more', but what should/could I stay that is kind, honest, and least likely to elicit a nasty response?
3.  how often do I try?
4.  AND, sadly I guess, should I even be trying (I feel like I should, hence the question)?

Our primary means of communication is texting, but she has told us before that when she blocks us from messaging applications, we may communicate through email should we wish to contact her.  BUT she has also said that her therapist and she discussed things and she has decided that we are the cause of all her suicide attempts.  SO, out of fear that we actually are the cause (okay - now I'm less concerned, but my poor husband is taking that comment seriously) will not communicate with her (or in my case am hesitant to reach out when she has blocked) at risk of putting her over the edge again.

But then my not talking to her is not my style ... .so after I have 'enjoyed' a bit of a break and am rejuvenated, I think I'm ready to step back in and take another chance ... .When, What, How do I try?

I'm still always kinda afraid of where the conversation will lead or how it will go or WHEN it will blow up.  It's what I imagine is like a PTSD experience on a very basic/simple level.  So I want to try to protect myself, but still let our daughter know we're still thinking of her and we really are here for her.

Ace

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[once removed]

was this:

At 12:00, I reminded her "I'm heaind to bed now. It's been nice to talk to you. I hope he's (the friend she spoke of) got some recommendations for you to talk to people in the area or somebody does" ... .followed by "I'll hope for updates soon" at 12:01.

Earlier this morning around 7:00 am (she tends to sleep all day and be awake all night, so sometimes she's still awake as I'm getting up), I send her "Sending you love this morning and always."

the last exchange you had?

[Music Ace]

Yes - that was the morning of December 11th.  I haven't texted her again, nor have I emailed.  She is unavailable from the other messaging application.

Ace

[once removed]

what do you want to say?

[Music Ace]

There in lies the challenge ... .  WHY am I reaching out to her?  What DO I want to say?

1. I want to know she's alive.
2. I want to know she wants to talk to me
3. I want to know she loves me
4. I want her to recognize her behaviour (can you tell I'm a Canadian?) is not appropriate/helpful in our relationship
5. I want her to know that I love her
6. I want her to know that I care
7. I want her to know that we can and will help if she asks outright (not innuendo, but a specific request ... .please come fix my leaky window, not ... .OH MY GOD, MY WINDOW IS LEAKING, COULD ANYTHING ELSE GO WRONG ... .which may in her mind equal asking for help, but we've been burned before by offering unsolicited advice thus undermining her self esteem because we don't believe she can figure things out herself).

OK - so now that I've randomly thought through that (thanks for the short but thought provoking question @once removed) ... .I am now wondering why I feel the need to reach out anyway. Notice the order in which my thoughts popcorned out. She knows I care, down deep.  What is MY purpose of wanting to contact her?  Hoping to catch her on a good day so that we can have a conversation? (I wish - but that doesn't often happen - it's a dumb luck, crap shoot) Appease my own guilt? (Am I really a bad parent? Have I let her down? If I don't reach out daily, does that mean I don't care? How do I respond to my friends and family when they ask how she is - geez sorry, haven't spoken to her in 1 month, she's refusing to communicate, and nope, don't know if her house is sold, heck I don't know if she's alive?) Am I hoping that if she responds, her response will include some or preferably ALL I'm going to a residential treatment, I'm eating properly, my apartment is clean, I've made amends to my inlaws, and you and dad really are the wonderful people that everyone else but me says you are. 

THUS, through my own conclusion drawn from that simple 6-word question, what I want to say is likely quite self-serving and my expectations are unrealistic.  DAMN IT 

I want her to know we have not and would NEVER abandon her ... .but if she has symptoms of BPD ... .well ... .that is what she will feel, think, smell, believe whether I text her or not.  She has already come to her idealization of abandonment with regard to us. 

I want her to feel loved, by us (by anyone) ... .but ... .(see note above regarding my understanding of symptoms of BPD).

SO, if after once removed's soul searching question has caused my own enlightening self reflection ... .

my next question becomes

What do I do next after she doesn't respond.  BUT, this time, I am asking ... .what would help HER the best? What could I do, that would be most helpful to her?  How do I know what to say and when to say it and should it include a discussion (I don't think so) or a succinct love you kinda deal.

Can/Should I send a text ... .without knowing whether it would be seen.  "sending you a virtual hug"  with nothing more ... .does that trigger a BPD (if she is, in fact), does it help sometimes, or is it virtually meaningless with no other connection?  Do I just leave her alone until she reaches out to us again ... .angry or not.  I KNOW (today, at this moment, but my guilt will always return), I have not abandoned her.  I KNOW I have done the best that I can most times.  I KNOW that I made a lot of mistakes, but I can't turn back the clock. I KNOW that I have things that I need to work on and am working on.  I KNOW my characteristics, expectations, responses have not been helpful if she has always had BPD ... .but it's only now that I know that part ... .and that's what I'm working on is changing it NOW. 

As she works through her part of the journey, she has to grown to trust me again ... .and if she isn't making any changes, it's kinda unlikely she's going to be able to see and/or trust and/or work with me through MY attempts at change.  But that's not on me.  I'm just going to keep plugging along on my growth and hopefully when she is ready to work through things with me/us ... .I will have made changes for the better and been a contributing factor in rebuilding a positive relationship.  But, I can't do it all for both of us.

NEW Summary - what does a guilt text look like (like a text sent by a mom feeling guilty about NC not that I'm trying to make her feel guilty) and what effect might it have on my daughter?
AND what does a positive, guilt free (absolutely no intention of making her feel guilty about NC), empathetic, lovingly detached but still loving so she knows the lines of communication remain open from my end look like?

Thanks for allowing me to think this through. 

[Only Human]

Hi MusicAce,

I really like that you posted your thought process with us. I was reading and thought I could have posted the same thing. It's so difficult to know what's right in these situations.

In your other thread you posted that she responded to your validating text with, "I'll just set myself up for disappointment again. Like you guys might actually care about me." So it seems to me a caring text now, a few days since you last texted, would be welcomed by her and would show her you "actually care about" her and not just when she's accusing you of being terrible.

Your final text, "sending you love this morning and always" was lovely.  Can you think of something that could build on that?

~ OH

[Music Ace]

I tried this one, this time.

"Sending you a virtual hug knowing you've got lots of stuff going"  (I missed the word on ... .but I'm not going to send a second text, although that will bug me A LOT!)

Thanks @Only Human

[Only Human]

I love it! I also love that you left the "going" hanging even though it's bugging you =)

How are you feeling about sending the text?

~ OH

[Only Human]

I forgot to say WHY I love your text 

It's casual, it's loving, and there are no implied expectations of a reply. You're giving her space. Good job 

~ OH

[Music Ace]

OH - you asked how I'm feeling about sending that text ... .

I'm feeling that it's loving, casual and I have no expectations of a reply.

How'd I do    (I thought you described how I was feeling perfectly!)

I'd love a reply, but I'll not expect one. 

She has people in her life she is relying on right now.  They are drug addicts and leeches ... .but she will either decide she no longer wants these people directing her life and will distance herself from them OR her resources will dry up and they will distance themselves from her because she is worth nothing to them.  Perhaps, like her, they are good people apart from their addiction ... .but they are not currently helping (or able to help) her out of hers.  I have been chatting with her friend today and I'll reach out to her brother in law tomorrow (she no longer speaks to him either).  I will make myself available to them (they are both considering attending medical school in the next 2 years and must prep for their MCATS very soon) so I can be there for them when they need an external frustration/celebration rant ... .just like they were there for her when we 'weren't". I also have a previous student who has adopted me as her bonus MOM (her natural MUM approves as she is going through some seriously health issues) - I can offer my support to her as well.  My learning through BPD readings, have provided me guidance in my conversations with her (she's 15) and I'm doing an okay job bonus parenting this kid too.  I often wonder if this child came into our lives because I needed a do over OR to reaffirm that I have positive things to offer and I'm not a bad human being.  On good days, I know she's a gift to both my husband and I and that we're are awesome for her ... .on bad days, I know I've got a chance to have a positive impact on someone even though I can't help my own kid.

[Music Ace]

AND AND AND ... .Her reply was ... .

"Meh, I want to die, but that's usual"

My reply is getting sorted out but so far - after not reading it, and enjoying my evening out, then reading it and STILL enjoying my evening out, reading it again and then going to bed and sleeping for almost 9 hours, reading it again and still formulating a response is starting like this ... .

"You have so much to deal with and so much to do, I can't imagine how overwhelming it all feels.  What are you focusing on or working on right now?"

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Only Human]

Oh boy, It sucks that her response was so negative. Baby steps and silver lining: she responded without lashing out at you 

I'm glad you were able to enjoy your evening and get a full night's sleep, Music Ace   

Have you finished formulating your response? 

~ OH

[Music Ace]

I sent it as was written.  AND, I totally agree @OH, although negative, there was no lash out.  ACE FOR THE WIN (for the moment).

Her response 10 hours later ... .

"I MET THE GUY WHO SPREADS RUMOURS ABOUT ME!"

And ... .apparently, I'm back in.  She's now telling me about this guy who is a hard core addict.  He is low functioning and has no idea who she is or how much power she has in the scene. 

SO she's seems to be back to talking to me (careful what you wish for ... . ), but I will now get to hear about all the parties, drugs, and activities that she is involved in. I'll continue to work my careful conversation and enjoy any glimmers of her former self and the positive points of her new self.  AND, I'll take it as long as I get it this go 'round, though.   

(and seriously - I got what I wanted, my kid is talking to me, can I never be satisfied?   - G O L L Y!)

All in all, it's a good day.

[Harri]

Hi Music Ace! 

I am glad to hear that your daughter is talking to you again.  I am also happy to hear the humor in your post as it can go a long way in giving balance and perspective.   The response you wrote to here was good I think and validated her experience without being invalidating or validating the invalid.  Well done!

[Music Ace]

I was feeling pretty good about the whole situation too.  Obviously not perfect, but still the communication lines were back open.

SO, I thought I'd broach the Christmas idea since she seemed to be okay telling me her possible New Years plans.
"I'm not sure what your plans are for Christmas, and I know we talked about Ottawa a while ago, but I just wanted to let you know that we rented a 3-bedroom airbnb with a pull out couch (or two?). Your sister (I used her actual name) is claiming the couch or heading to her place if you can make it. Grandpa is able to come. There is no pressure at all, but if you'd like to come for one or two nights, it would be nice to have you there and we made sure everyone could have their private space too."

Her response  "I won't be there"

My response "Alright. Thanks for letting me know. I wasn't sure if the possible Brooklyn trip (this is the New Years plan she had told me about) might be the same time"  then immediately followed it with "Or that it might be tough to come too."

Her response  "Doesn't matter, I won't be there regardless"

My response  "OK"

This conversation MAY have taken place after a dance-filled, sleep-deprived, drug-filled, weekend (she may have gone out, but she may not have - I don't know) ... .and prior to my reading of an email she sent 50 minutes earlier that I had not yet read.  I knew it was there ... .but I wanted to invite her/remind her about Christmas without being jaded or scared off by anything that was in the email.  I wanted it to be from my heart and honest.  But I let it go with an OK, knowing that the email she sent could be a negative one.

It was another tough email to read, but it speaks volumes of the broken little girl who is searching and trying to find her place in the world and is looking for reason why she struggles the way she is.  If she truly never wanted to speak to us again, she would not bother sending us anything.  So as much as those emails break my heart and destroy my husband a little bit more each time, they are always are well written and thoughtful and so very very sad with grains of truth that I can learn from:   1. to be a better Mom 2. to communicate better; 3. to apologize/make amends for those things that hurt her as a child and continue to hurt her; 4. know that I can't do this for her, but I can try to understand her pain.  Because if she has truly experienced even a portion of what she is describing (my husband NEVER told her to kill herself; however, if she thinks he did - that would be horrid), even as a stable person, it would be devastating ... .now throw the challenges of potentially uBPD ... .she experiences these things 1000 fold more intensely. My poor, poor child. My poor, poor husband.

BUT, today, I'm doing okay.  

[Harri]

Hi Music Ace. 

I am glad you are doing okay today.  I think you were smart handling the invitation before reading the email.  It is hard when someone we love is hurting so badly. 

You speak of grains of truth.  I think the points you wrote out are quite significant and show love and acceptance and grief.  It is quite powerful really.

Thanks for the update ACE.