Some thoughts on Jekyll and Hyde and BPD

[stolencrumbs]

The Jekyll/Hyde reference comes up on this board pretty frequently. I'm currently getting the ST (which I'm pretty grateful for, actually, as it gives me some time to think about the bigger picture and not be stuck in an immediate crisis), so I decided to take some time and read "The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde." I'd guess that I had not read it since high school, so obviously I'm reading it with much different eyes now. It was interesting.

The thing that struck me the most (and maybe this is obvious) is that Jekyll and Hyde are the same person. Or, maybe to put it another way, there is no Hyde. Not really. There is just Jekyll, and then there is this other part of his personality that normally stays beneath the surface. Mr. Hyde is not some alien that takes over Dr. Jekyll. He is not an outside force or something different from or at odds with Dr. Jekyll. He is Jekyll. Or part of Jekyll.

I know when I talk about my wife being Jekyll and Hyde, this isn't the way I tend to think about it. I do think of her Hyde as some kind of alien force that takes over her. But if I take the story seriously, I think this is wrong. It is part of her. In this way, I think BPD is different from some other mental illnesses. My wife has struggled with depression on and off throughout our life together. We have had success dealing with that by, in part, treating the depression as a kind of intruder. We even gave it a name. It was an "other" in her life and in our life, and we were on the same team against it. That doesn't work with BPD, I don't think, because it isn't an other. It is not something separate. It is part of who she is.

And the story isn't just about some people. It's about human nature, and all of us. So we all have a Mr. Hyde. We are just better at keeping him below the surface than our partners are.

I'm hoping this will help with how I relate to my wife. I struggle with getting annoyed, getting angry, and being dismissive with her when she is dysregulated. Part of this is that I see her dysregulated self as not really being her, and so I can dismiss that person and wait for my wife to come back. But it is her and I need to treat her as such. Her dysregulated self is not some monster that I can't possibly relate to. I have a Mr. Hyde, too. I should be better at recognizing that and being more empathetic and less dismissive and annoyed. She has not been taken over by an alien being. She is a human just like me, displaying all the complexity us humans have. I want to do better at keeping that in mind. When I'm angry or annoyed or dismissive towards Mr. Hyde, I am angry and annoyed and dismissive towards her. There is no sharp divide.

That doesn't excuse or justify things she does. It doesn't mean we can be together and live happily ever after. I hope it does mean that I don't just relate to her Mr. Hyde by being angry, annoyed, and dismissive. The end result may be the same in terms of action, but I hope those actions can come from a place of better understanding and compassion.

tl;dr - Jekyll and Hyde is a good story that'll make you think. Go read it.

[Bnonymous]

Hi StolenCrumbs,

I've nothing to add to what you've said at the moment. I just wanted to say that it was a great pleasure to read your post and I think it's very insightful. Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with us!

And I've never actually read the book, but I will try to find time to do that soon - thanks for the tip! I think one of the great things about literature is how it speaks to something almost universal in human experience, and yet, at the same time, we can all find our own personal layers of meaning in it too. I really enjoyed reading your thoughts, Stolencrumbs.

[once removed]

I struggle with getting annoyed, getting angry, and being dismissive with her when she is dysregulated. Part of this is that I see her dysregulated self as not really being her, and so I can dismiss that person and wait for my wife to come back.

i struggled with this too... .not to let myself off the hook here, but earlier in our relationship my ex had suggested i not take her seriously when shes like that. so i took it to the point that id dismiss anything she said that i didnt like or didnt agree with. not a constructive conflict style, with anybody.

It's about human nature

and we all have a perspective that is informed by who we are, where we come from, our experience - no more or less valid than anyone elses.

and we all have needs and complaints. our partners struggle in communicating theirs... .and sometimes we do too. its not always easy to listen, and to understand the heart of the matter - far harder when our partners are dysregulating and more prone to distortions. what do you do in those cases?

[stolencrumbs]

far harder when our partners are dysregulating and more prone to distortions. what do you do in those cases?

Yes, absolutely. And that's the million dollar question, and not something I have an answer to. I think I've been pretty bad at figuring that one out.

I guess for me part of what makes it far harder is that the dysregulation and distortions make me angry and dismissive, and that can and does make me self-righteous. And once I'm at that point, I'm not really trying to understand her. Instead, I'm telling myself all the ways I've been wronged, and how crazy she is, and how wrong she is, and how I don't deserve this, and etc. I think all of that is very natural. But being natural doesn't mean it is healthy or helpful.

In the moment, I suspect what I do is the same. I don't engage when she's dysregulated. The question for me is what I do after that, and it seems to me I should do less complaining and criticizing to myself and others, and do more to try to understand.

 

[stolencrumbs]

Hi StolenCrumbs,

I've nothing to add to what you've said at the moment. I just wanted to say that it was a great pleasure to read your post and I think it's very insightful. Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with us!

And I've never actually read the book, but I will try to find time to do that soon - thanks for the tip! I think one of the great things about literature is how it speaks to something almost universal in human experience, and yet, at the same time, we can all find our own personal layers of meaning in it too. I really enjoyed reading your thoughts, Stolencrumbs.

Thanks, Bnonymous. It's open source if you want to give it a look. https://www.gutenberg.org/files/43/43-h/43-h.htm

[Red5]

Hey' stolencrumbs!

What a great thread, thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.

I remember seeing this on the tv quite a while back... .

Yes, I can concur with your analogy of Jekyll verses Hyde, and I agree that "Hyde" is not some kind of possession, ie' she has been taken over by an outside entity... .but Hyde is in fact part of her, and she is Jekyll, .Jekyll and Hyde are one and the same, like the front and back of a quarter... .tails you win, heads you lose... .but same quarter, and when its tossed into the air, no one knows which side will come up the "winner'... .hmmm,

Like Forest Gump's 'box of chocolate's'... ."you never know what you're going to get"... .

The book was on our high school reading list, senior year, 1983-84, I do remember reading it, and I think now I should read it again... .an eighteen years old perspective verse a fifty-two years olds... .may be quite different... .after thirty-five years have passed... .

I have looked it up again due to curiosity, and it says it first published: Jan 05, 1886... .so wow, look at what the population / populists at large was thinking even way back then eh'... .wow !

I heard a person on a YouTube video say the other day... ."she, or he does not 'have' BPD, like having the flu, or a cold, .no;... .they 'are' BPD, that's who they are... .they are BPD"... .

So as you say, our pw/BPD does not "change" as it were, its always there... .that is who they are, and when it becomes "unbearable" to cope, they dysregulate.

The dysregulative behaviors... .are their defensive mechanisms... .what are the corner stones, underpinnings of BPD(?), two things... ."fear of abandonment", and fear of "engulfment"... .

"I hate you don't leave me like this"... ."I love you don't leave me"... ."I hate you I'm done, I'm leaving you"... ."its all your fault"... ."leave me alone"... ."don't call me anymore"... ."I can't live without you"... ."anybody except you"... ."I loath you"... ."I'd be lost without you"... ."you can't get rid of me"... .

^everyone^, exact quotes from my own uBPDw, .every single one ; (

Crazy making... .its always there.

Then there is all the rest of it, .the spectrum, the high functioning, the mid-low functioning... .the quiet ones, .the "invisible ones"... .on and on and on.

Great thread stolencrumbs,

Red5

[stolencrumbs]

I heard a person on a YouTube video say the other day ... ."she, or he does not 'have' BPD, like having the flu, or a cold, ... .no; ... .they 'are' BPD, ... that's who they are ... .they are BPD" ... .

This seems right to me, though for me it's important to frame that more as "they aren't just BPD." My wife is who she is, and that includes a whole host of things that fall under the label of BPD. She is those things when she is dysregulated, and she is those things when she's not. She's also a whole bunch of other things all the time, too. I guess I worry that I fall into my own version of black/white thinking on this, and I want to resist that. When the coin flip comes up dysregulated, she's not all bad. She's still her, and this is part of her. When it comes up roses, the bad parts are still there, too. That was my takeaway from the story this time around. There aren't two different people here, the good one and the bad one. There's just the one person.

[takingandsending]

I'm hoping this will help with how I relate to my wife. I struggle with getting annoyed, getting angry, and being dismissive with her when she is dysregulated. Part of this is that I see her dysregulated self as not really being her, and so I can dismiss that person and wait for my wife to come back. But it is her and I need to treat her as such. Her dysregulated self is not some monster that I can't possibly relate to. I have a Mr. Hyde, too. I should be better at recognizing that and being more empathetic and less dismissive and annoyed. She has not been taken over by an alien being. She is a human just like me, displaying all the complexity us humans have. I want to do better at keeping that in mind. When I'm angry or annoyed or dismissive towards Mr. Hyde, I am angry and annoyed and dismissive towards her. There is no sharp divide.

What you say here is true. I used to wrestle with how I saw my xw (when we were married and even now). I am Buddhist, so i believe that she is inherently buddha nature. But in dysregulation, and my own reaction to it, it is very difficult to recall that. I think you have to be careful here. It was very easy for me to see similarities in all of our human natures and normalize things that, frankly, weren’t normal or healthy or sustainable. I was self critical of my own feelings of anger or disgust while rationalizing her behaviors. In retrospect, this was poor boundaries, FOG and low self esteem within me. I did receive a benefit from the RS, namely that I could be compassionate and the good guy, while not really addressing how bad I felt about myself. For me, my kids were the tipping point of deciding I needed to learn self care to give them a loving father. I thought I could do it and stay with the abusive and controlling behaviors of my xw, but it really became a matter of resources. Time and energy are finite within us. Be careful that you are spending some of your time and energy on you. It is so very easy to focus on your wife and try to normalize what is not fair nor good. I hope you find your balance and way forward in a way that supports you.

[stolencrumbs]

What you say here is true. I used to wrestle with how I saw my xw (when we were married and even now). I am Buddhist, so i believe that she is inherently buddha nature. But in dysregulation, and my own reaction to it, it is very difficult to recall that. I think you have to be careful here. It was very easy for me to see similarities in all of our human natures and normalize things that, frankly, weren’t normal or healthy or sustainable. I was self critical of my own feelings of anger or disgust while rationalizing her behaviors. In retrospect, this was poor boundaries, FOG and low self esteem within me. I did receive a benefit from the RS, namely that I could be compassionate and the good guy, while not really addressing how bad I felt about myself. For me, my kids were the tipping point of deciding I needed to learn self care to give them a loving father. I thought I could do it and stay with the abusive and controlling behaviors of my xw, but it really became a matter of resources. Time and energy are finite within us. Be careful that you are spending some of your time and energy on you. It is so very easy to focus on your wife and try to normalize what is not fair nor good. I hope you find your balance and way forward in a way that supports you.

Thanks talkingandsending. I really appreciate your perspective, and I take this advice to heart. When I write it all out in newspaper form, there is plenty that is not normal, healthy, or sustainable in our relationship, and I don't want to fall into rationalizing or normalizing that. I also don't want to fall into consoling myself with thoughts of being the good guy, and failing to look at what's really going on with me. I don't have kids, but I see my time and energy being directed away from other things that matter to me--family, friends, students, colleagues, etc. Time and energy are finite resources for sure. Thanks again for your response. I'm hoping to find balance, too.

[once removed]

that's the million dollar question, and not something I have an answer to. I think I've been pretty bad at figuring that one out.

a healthy time out, when we are getting frazzled ourselves, can really help. its best though not to use as punishment (easy habit to get in).

[Cat Familiar]

I had my quarterly appointment with my P yesterday. Things are going along well enough in my relationship, so we spoke about Cluster B disorders in general.

Something she said really seems applicable here. And that is the value of “therapist outrage” to let people know that certain behaviors of their SO are totally unacceptable.

“She did what?” said with a disbelieving look. Or “He said that to you and you said nothing?” with a raised eyebrow.

Her point was that partners of people with PDs often become so numb that these outrageous behaviors become normalized, and it’s the job of the therapist to point out that those behaviors should not be swept under the rug and accepted as just a quirk of that individual.

Those behaviors should instead be considered completely unacceptable and in the therapeutic relationship, strategies to deal with them should be considered.