Secret Impetuous acts against neighbour

[Lollypop]

Hi

My son28 opened up to me about 6 weeks ago that last year he sowed dandelion seeds on my neighbours drive. This was in retaliation of her complaining to me because my weeds were seeding in her garden. I think she’s got OCD because she her efforts to keep things pristine include washing her wooden shed in the rain. Her garden is immaculate. We live in a semi rural area and there are weeds on the lanes so she is a bit of a busy body. My weeds were tall though!

When he told me I didn’t say anything. My face must have showed surprise and perhaps a little shock as he thought it hilarious. I shook my head in a warm way, as if to say “well, I know she’s a pain but you shouldn’t have done that”.

Even though son28 doesn’t live with us he uses a parking space at the front of our house. This makes it a bit awkward for my neighbour as she likes to reverse into her drive. She finds it irritating and openly expresses it politely. It’s our land and so there’s not much more she can do. She looks forward to son moving away.

Anyway, earlier this week a car was parked on the land. Son28 asked the neighbour if it was her and she said no.

It turns out that it was a hire car for my neighbour. She’s complained to the hire company for not following instructions to parking it on her drive and not checking the tyre pressures. She was livid actually.

When I mentioned this to my son he laughed, said but she told me the car wasn’t hers and then admitted it was him who messed with the tyres.
He secretly let air out of the tyres because he was annoyed that he couldn’t put his car where he wanted.

I told him firmly “you can’t do that, it’s dangerous and she was going on the motorway. Don’t ever do that again. This is not your house, you’ve moved out”.

I’m starting to understand what a horrible young man he can be. He’s blacked the neighbour. I know he’d never live with himself if my neighbour had an accident and got hurt because of his foolishness. He’s behaving like an idiot.

I’ve not told my husband who was away. He’d hit the roof. My younger son heard the conversation and said afterwards “it’s not right he keeps coming home for a shower”. He’s right and it’s got to be more regular as his relationship with his landlady is tense.

Any advice is welcome. Son28 feels our  home is still his territory.  

Should I have been more assertive?  Should I stop son using our facilities? If so, how can I explain that to him without him feeling rejection? I value the trust he has in us.

It’s time son moved away from us.

LP .

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[wendydarling]

LP no surprise to you I'm thinking interpersonal relationships reading your post.  

Yikes, I'm glad he was able to share with you how he reacts with acts against your neighbour, you've gained and value his trust dearly, that is surely something to protect, I get it. Do you think he got your message? Or might another conversation help? As you say he does not live with you anymore and his actions affect your relationship, your families with your neighbour and further. Has he accepted there are terms attached for the use of your car space? I also think you've got huge mileage ahead now he's opened up to you, painting the neighbour black.

As I see it, there are two separate issues his relationship with your neighbour and his relationship with his landlady, as you know well keeping issues separate is the way to go.

The increasing shower use, he's avoiding his landlady is impacting on your home life. What's happening there, what's the issue he needs to resolve? Move out? I think I'd explore that first, it's links to he needs to move away from you, he needs to be able to use his own shower and car parking space! He needs his own territory. Perhaps approaching this, looking at the long term solutions, big win-win for you all may help him not feel rejected, than if you brought up the shower use in isolation?

WDx

[Daisy123]

Hi Lp,
I’ve just a few minutes to write, I agree with Wendy, you have established a strong relationship of trust. You probably are aware of Cluster B personality disorders and how BPDp has traits in all 4 conditions found under this cluster. Your son knows right from wrong, but perhaps his impulse is difficult to deny. My thoughts are with you, I really hear your frustration,
Will post more later.

Daisy123

[Lollypop]

Thanks WD and Daisy

I felt better after posting. I need to brush up on my skills. I really don’t see son28 that much these days. He pops in and even if he has a meal he doesn’t hang around. He stayed for a talk on Sunday evening because he felt guilty about refusing to go with me when we got a takeaway. I don’t interact as much and my confidence and skills aren’t what they were. When he lived at home I used them every day.

I like the idea of keeping a long term view. It’s time he got his own place and this will happen at some point.

I think he got the message from me so I don’t have to do a re-do.

The issue with the landlady is she gets annoyed over the washer and dryer. She threw his stuff all over after having a rant about his stuff being left in there. He then got annoyed because he thinks he’s good to her - his rent is much more than it should be (he felt sorry for her at the beginning), he pays her early if she’s strapped for cash. She has a bath when he wants a shower. He’s a creature of habit, keeps yo his routine and is agitated if things don’t happen in the right order.

Basically, his biggest problem is interpersonal relationships. Particularly when he sees a lot of somebody.

Thanks for helping me see perspective.

LP

[wendydarling]

Thanks LP, I'm glad you're feeling better after posting, it's good to get it out there, as you'll see me doing below  . House sharing is difficult if ground rules are not agreed as we know well from the fall out of student living.  he'll get there, it'll help him work out how he does want to live, what'll make him happy. Perhaps sow a seed for him next time he complains about his landlady.

Interesting to hear you feel you need to brush up on your skills since you don't see DS as often, are there any that you feel particularly rusty with? To be honest I find I use my skills 'knowingly' more with others than my DD, we've kind of got it squared off, at one point I thought hey I'm not using my skills, when in fact I was, so it's all feeling quite normal these days. Do you get the opportunity to practice with others, uni, other family, or how about your neighbour 

Since this thread includes interpersonal relationships with neighbours, what would you do with my situation? 

Our neighbours moved two years ago after 30 years, they were family to us, the kids grew up together, we were blissfully happy. DD was very upset they were moving. Our new neighbours, W, H and 3 boys, 2, 5, 8. I knew the husband as we'd been involved in the same charity, I was really happy to hear he was moving in with his family. Here goes, the wife is verbally and emotionally abusive to the whole family many times daily and especially when she's trying to get them out the door to school and at weekends. Her rages are so loud (she's an actress, great projection  ) it's like she's actually standing in our home. I've never heard anything like it, it's deeply upsetting and disturbing, on occasion we've heard physical violence. Her husband apologises when I see him, he's also told DD that he's going to get a divorce. Live in au pairs leave within weeks. DD will turn up the music to drown it out. She's a loving devoted Mum when she's not being abusive. I've even avoided leaving my home when I can hear her raging in her front garden. I don't think she gives a hoot about anyone, sometimes people stop outside and watch her berate her husband in public what a useless piece of  and worse. Of course my sensitive DD has painted her black, avoids her like the plague because she could be a target, we've heard her lose it with delivery men, the way she speaks to some people etc …... over the smallest of things. UGH, I want my happy neighbourhood back! Probably hard for others to believe no one has ever shouted, raised their voice at me, then again I've never come across a situation like this. Outwardly to me the wife's all smiles and roses. I know it's out of my control but sometimes I just want to say ………… I think next time she's raging at her husband in her front path, or pavement (if on cue, that'll be tomorrow, Saturday morning) I'll purposefully go out (as though I'm off to the store) and see if she notices me and stops.

Happy Friday

WDx

[Lollypop]

Hi there WD

I do use my skills with others and sometimes even share a technique with a friend if they’re struggling with their teenager.

At Uni I had a conflict to deal with at the start of the academic year and despite me remaining calm and clearly expressing myself they took it the wrong way. I tried using DEARMAN but was faced against 3 people. Basically the reply I got was “it’s not my fault, nobody else is complaining”. She cried and played the victim, she got her own way and I got persecuted. I’ve raised myself above these playground tactics - we are ok together but I’m now ostracised by the maturer “in”  lady group. I’m out of the drama triangle though. I don’t get invited to join them - they are silently rude if you get my meaning. I’ve tried very hard to be nice and demonstrate behaviours I want to see in them and they’ve warmed up recently - I’ve done this for the sake of our studio community. The lady concerned is incredibly selfish, has a big ego and a booming voice - everything she has ever done is soo much better than anyone else.

I’ve got a passive aggressive neighbour. You’ve got a wicked witch. What a horrible woman? Poor kids. She’s obviously really  in an unhappy place and thoroughly stressed out.

Seems to me you can:

1. Ignore it and hope she’s the one to move out after the split.
2. Use DEARMAN to ask her to quieten down,
3. Dare I write this, try and be a friend and indirectly get her to understand how her behaviour is upsetting for everyone.

I’m sure you’ve used DEARMAN before. I read a perfect example years ago that stayed with me about a conflict over a parking space. The R reinforce words he used were “I think we could all could get along better if... .”

Just so the others who may read this here’s the first bit of DEAR:

Describe - facts only “you’re a noisy witch”
express - how you feel - “I find it upsetting to start my day... .”
Assert - what you want to happen - “I would like it... .
Reinforce - I love having you as my neighbour (maybe a bit too far, she’ll see through this big lie!) and We could all get along so much better... .

I wrote this and I squirm. I’m not sure wicked witch would respond well. I’d be a scaredy cat.

Remember to put on your girly boots on WD. You could always wimp out and say you’ve got a terrible unknown condition that gives you cluster headaches and need peace and quiet. Now that would break all our rules of assertiveness and limit setting.

My friend had to challenge a drug dealer single dad who’s son had broken her windows on the greenhouse. There was a big dog at the door too. Sometimes, we have to say something. I’m not sure I would have approached him to be honest.

What’s your thoughts? Surely, wendydarling skills would be like fairy dust on the wicked witch?

LP

Ps. I caught son at the end of a perfect work week for him, he lives his job - about a perfect flat that’s come available. He was like “wow, that sounds perfect”.  He’ll do nothing ... .patience!

[wendydarling]

Hi LP

Ps. I caught son at the end of a perfect work week for him, he lives his job - about a perfect flat that’s come available. He was like “wow, that sounds perfect”.  He’ll do nothing ... .patience!

Magic   good weekend feeling. What was perfect sounding for him?  I'm guessing things may have to get unbearably uncomfortable from his current digs to drive your DS into action.

It's nice to hear you share a technique with a friend if their teenager is struggling, that's exactly what us parents need, someone to listen and understand.

At Uni I had a conflict to deal with at the start of the academic year and despite me remaining calm and clearly expressing myself they took it the wrong way. I tried using DEARMAN but was faced against 3 people. Basically the reply I got was “it’s not my fault, nobody else is complaining”. She cried and played the victim, she got her own way and I got persecuted. I’ve raised myself above these playground tactics - we are ok together but I’m now ostracised by the maturer “in”  lady group. I’m out of the drama triangle though. I don’t get invited to join them - they are silently rude if you get my meaning. I’ve tried very hard to be nice and demonstrate behaviours I want to see in them and they’ve warmed up recently - I’ve done this for the sake of our studio community. The lady concerned is incredibly selfish, has a big ego and a booming voice - everything she has ever done is soo much better than anyone else.

You did well LP and yes I understand what you mean by silently rude, playground games, the lady sounds vulnerable, the lady doth protest too much. Keep warming them up, help them turn around, to think of and care for others, if they can. I'm sure your efforts have been noticed and appreciated by the studio as a whole. Did you feel it empowering LP? Have you felt a sense of calm?

Thanks for helping me think this through, it's going to take me time. See my response in italics.

Seems to me you can:

1. Ignore it and hope she’s the one to move out after the split. Yes I can ignore it, like I have. No way will she leave, she'll fight forever, it'll be long and protracted. The writing is there on the wall, if you know what I mean
2. Use DEARMAN to ask her to quieten down, I can re general noise but the noise is her abuse, this is what I'm trying to get mind round, I think I've let myself become caught up in it.  
3. Dare I write this, try and be a friend and indirectly get her to understand how her behaviour is upsetting for everyone. I like dares, this one is NO GO to get caught up in what's happening with the family, she'd tell me what a     her H is and lousy father ,

I'm back to DEARMAN, focus on the noise, not the content. I think the message is we can hear screaming, yelling as though they're all standing in our lounge word for word may help it be less personable, more effective. I have no problem with normal family noise, it's the abuse, it cut's me up, DD too. I think she's normalised her abuse towards her H and she'll justify her behaviour. I know he'd acknowledge the problems, if I asked him how he is, the flood gates would open. I've sensed many times he'd like to talk, I've been wary of 'getting involved' for very good reasons. The benefit of letting him share with me his situation, would be to point him in the direction of help and support he needs if he's not already getting it and for his lovely boys.

Thanks for helping me think, how. During the next raging sessions, I'll practice some scenarios with my big girly boots on, see how I feel.

WDx

[Lollypop]

Hi WD

Other options occur to me if their dramas are affecting your life then this is NOT on. I can see how difficult this situation is for you practically and emotionally. That pooir family. Poor you.

The next time it kicks off then you could:

4th option. Call the police anonymously. They can check on everybody’s safety. It might make these adults re-think. Do police actually turn up for domestic disturbances these days in cities? They do here.

5th option.  You knock on their door and say with genuine concern with SET. “I can hear that you’re in an argument and I totally understand. I’ve been  there myself and I know it’s none of my business. It’s just That it seems different to me today and I’m geniinely concerned about everybody’s safety. It’s easy for arguments to get out of hand. Is everybody ok? This is so upsetting and I want to do the right thing.

I’m just throwing it in there. She sounds horrible.

Hugs.

LP