Tinder trouble with uBPDw

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hello,

It's been an interesting road the last couple of years. My family issues with my uBPDw and my sisters have been largely resolved (thank God!). That was hell going through that but I have to give my w credit on being willing to do some counseling with them to resolve the issues.

Now I have another problem. I have noticed our sex life has dwindled over the last couple of years. She has seemed like she doesn't desire me very much in the bedroom and made it clear that it takes her a long time to be happy with it because of her anti-blood clot medication. That's another story but anyways. I found out perhaps part of the reason.

About a month ago, I discovered an app called Kik on her phone. It happened one day that I saw a message from someone that did not look like an ordinary notification from an app. She was using it to message other men and get turned on by them. I know she LOVES getting attention and I think she has a high sex drive because she takes care of it in other ways at home (too much information I know). We have an understanding about that part at home and it's not a big deal.

I confronted her a couple weeks ago and told her that I was disappointed she was using Kik to message other guys. She tried to play it off and be innocent like it was just flirting but I mentioned a specific conversation where she not only basically had cyber s** with the guy but she was very insulting about me to him regarding my job, and how I was in the bedroom. She apologized and I forgave her because I didn't want to make things worse in our marriage and I genuinely want to improve our lives and I know sex is a big part of it.

Fast forward to last Thursday. I made a habit of checking on her phone because I plain and simple don't know if I can trust her at this point. I find a Tinder app, which is worse than Kik because she's messaging other guys around our area and sure seems like she's trying to hook something up. She caught me looking at her phone, she said "what are you doing" and I said "oh just checking out your Tinder account". I told her she messaged a guy that she had a fling in 2014 which seems awfully specific but she denies doing it. She later apologized, said she deleted the app, and she remarked that she sometimes does that when she's feeling stressed about money which was also a little odd.

This morning, she had reinstalled Tinder and had messaged a couple of new guys on there. She also gave out her phone number to text her and I know she deletes whatever messages she gets.

Any ideas on how to deal with this from those who have dealt with something similar?

[guitarguy09]

Hello,

It's been an interesting road the last couple of years. My family issues with my uBPDw and my sisters have been largely resolved (thank God!). That was hell going through that but I have to give my w credit on being willing to do some counseling with them to resolve the issues.

Now I have another problem. I have noticed our sex life has dwindled over the last couple of years. She has seemed like she doesn't desire me very much in the bedroom and made it clear that it takes her a long time to be happy with it because of her anti-blood clot medication. That's another story but anyways. I found out perhaps part of the reason.

About a month ago, I discovered an app called Kik on her phone. It happened one day that I saw a message from someone that did not look like an ordinary notification from an app. She was using it to message other men and get turned on by them. I know she LOVES getting attention and I think she has a high sex drive because she takes care of it in other ways at home (too much information I know). We have an understanding about that part at home and it's not a big deal.

I confronted her a couple weeks ago and told her that I was disappointed she was using Kik to message other guys. She tried to play it off and be innocent like it was just flirting but I mentioned a specific conversation where she not only basically had cyber s** with the guy but she was very insulting about me to him regarding my job, and how I was in the bedroom. She apologized and I forgave her because I didn't want to make things worse in our marriage and I genuinely want to improve our lives and I know sex is a big part of it.

Fast forward to last Thursday. I made a habit of checking on her phone because I plain and simple don't know if I can trust her at this point. I find a Tinder app, which is worse than Kik because she's messaging other guys around our area and sure seems like she's trying to hook something up. She caught me looking at her phone, she said "what are you doing" and I said "oh just checking out your Tinder account". I told her she messaged a guy that she had a fling in 2014 which seems awfully specific but she denies doing it. She later apologized, said she deleted the app, and she remarked that she sometimes does that when she's feeling stressed about money which was also a little odd.

This morning, she had reinstalled Tinder and had messaged a couple of new guys on there. She also gave out her phone number to text her and I know she deletes whatever messages she gets.

Any ideas on how to deal with this from those who have dealt with something similar?

[Longterm]

Hi guitarguy09.

I have unfortunately dealt with a lot of this. I understand how it makes you feel and I very much sympathise with you.

I'm my book, it is cheating, plain and simple. I believe that these type of thing should not happen in a marriage.

My advice is talk to her about it and explain how this makes you feel, then I would lay down some very firm boundaries in regards to what you find acceptable. This could very easily get out of control and escalate to a much more damaging level.

LT.

[guitarguy09]

Hi Longterm,

Thanks for your response. I believe that is emotional infidelity/cheating and it hurts me. It does help that we are usually pretty busy and she doesn't have a lot of time she can get out of the house as a stay at home mom. I think she was back using Kik yesterday but caught me looking at her phone and I made up an excuse, then she probably deleted it before reinstalling Tinder.

I feel like half the reason she does this is to satisfy that need of hers to be desirable at her age, and we're in our 30s so not old. She takes pride in her looks and is very good looking but probably puts too much stock into it. She has told me repeatedly that she would never sleep with another guy but her messages suggest otherwise. I have taken pictures of several conversations with my phone so I have proof if I need it later on.

I'll have to do some thinking of how to approach this. I haven't shared this with anyone else and I mean anyone else and her parents would be devastated to learn about this. Her dad would hit the roof.

[Longterm]

I believe that is emotional infidelity/cheating and it hurts me.

It does hurt, I understand.

Do you have any initial thoughts on how best to proceed?

LT.

[guitarguy09]

It does hurt, I understand.

Do you have any initial thoughts on how best to proceed?

LT.

I know a lot more than I let on about her phone/tech life. I know she's also on a dating app called Hinge and the OK Cupid website. I have access to her email and she knows my password too so she can check mine anytime. Which means I have checked her contacts and she has several suspicious names, a lot of them only first names, but I have looked them up and it doesn't look on the up and up.

I thought after the last time I confronted her I could just let it go because at this point sadly we couldn't afford to get divorced, not that I would necessarily want to right now. But I'm not sure now. I don't make enough money without her staying at home to put our younger kid in daycare and pay for the house too. So I feel like I'm stuck. Another thing she bugs me about is how I don't make enough money, but she has been better on that lately and I thought things have actually been going well in the last week.

Realistically, I would have to tell her what I've seen and what I know and that that behavior is unacceptable and hurtful, and define what is ok and what is not ok in our relationship like you mentioned. I just don't want her to think I am so all-knowing about her activities that I'm stalking her. I know she has a wild side but I respect that and try to take her to concerts every now and then and am trying to do what I can to spice up our love life. That has actually been better in the past week as well.

[Longterm]

Realistically, I would have to tell her what I've seen and what I know and that that behavior is unacceptable and hurtful, and define what is ok and what is not ok in our relationship like you mentioned. I just don't want her to think I am so all-knowing about her activities that I'm stalking her.

It's difficult. You want to be heard/respected but are fearful of the consequences, unfortunately very common for the non.

Have you ever experienced this kind of behaviour from her before? If so did you notice anything that maybe triggered it?

LT.

[Cat Familiar]

I sympathize, guitarguy. My ex did things like that and it really damaged my trust in him. You've already told her that doing this is unacceptable in a relationship. Do you think she's likely to cheat should she have an opportunity?

[guitarguy09]

LT -

I ordered a new phone yesterday because I've been having issues with my old one, but I found she was still logged in under her account. I found there's a way to check her call and text history. I confronted her about one number she had texted over 100 times, she claims she was texting for a cleaning job. I know she was actually looking for one but it seems suspicious that it would be that many times.

I relayed again what I don't want to have happen. She says because of financial stress she chats with men online, she says it would either be that or drinking herself to death. I'm not sure which is worse.

Cat -

Thanks for your nice reply. She again swore up and down she would never do anything stupid and cheat on me, but if the situation was right and the person didn't have a lot of partners I think she would if she had the time. That's my gut feeling. I'm trying to get a new job but she partially blames my lack of a new job for her chatting with these guys. She says the last guy she talked to had had a lot of partners and she wouldn't want to get an STD. Well yeah... but I was hoping for "I would never cheat on you period no matter what". I'm getting fed up with her but at the same time I believed her a little bit. Frustrating.

I feel like I'm really stuck because of finances, we're doing ok but not raking it in. And I know this shouldn't be a consideration for her but she uses it as an excuse. I told her how would she feel if I was chatting up girls because I was stressed about money. She didn't have much to say about that.

[guitarguy09]

I should add I really don't think she would leave me, most of the guys she talks to are probably just looking for a quick hook up. Not that that helps much.

[Enabler]

Hiya,

It's a bit depressing to think of an adult in this way, it's normally reserved for dealing with Children... BUT... with some adults you can't rely on their conscience to guild them. What you've done is provided her conscience with enough information such that even the most blind ignorance adult should be able to deduce that this fooling around is not only visible but hurtful and frankly bang out of order. However, my guess is she stopped listening to her internal voice which screams shes BAD BAD BAD a long time ago, now she just looks for things that feel good, and avoids things which feel bad. Her internal voice is constantly telling her she bad, why listen to it.

So, sadly, there has to be consequences. If you want her to stop, there needs to be some downside she might want to avoid. At the moment she knows that she can have her cake and eat it and you'll not do anything. You'll see these things and "believe" her lies and allow her to continue her life without any downside to her hurtful actions. I don't know your wife but I think the apologies are empty, manipulation if you will... just to make you drop it and shut up... and it works.

Enabler   

[Cat Familiar]

You mentioned that financial issues currently make divorce impractical. If that changed, would divorce be a consideration?

If she ups the ante and begins acting out these flirtations, what would you do?

[guitarguy09]

Hi Enabler,

Thanks for your post. I have been thinking about that too. I think I need to come up with a little more proof but I will have to lay out serious consequences. I know at the moment she thinks she can do whatever and to some extent that's true. I hope she's scared enough to not actually go out and cheat on me at least.

Cat,

If she began to act out these flirtations and actually meet these guys, etc. I don't know if I could put up with it. One thing that would terrify her is if I told her mom and dad (who are divorced and remarried but we're in contact with them regularly) that she was messaging or meeting these other guys. She has already admitted to her mom and stepdad that she met a high school classmate for lunch one weekend. Her mom was really unhappy because my w suggested she was thinking of throwing in the towel on us. Luckily this guy had enough sense to run the other way because she just liked how accomplished he was, what a nice new car he had, etc. I can't help but wonder if she was genuinely trying to make an effort to leave or if she was trying to get me to get a new job. I was pissed and I told her that was never to happen again.

But back to her parents. She has a great relationship with her mom, and I talk to her on a regular basis because she is a non BPD and has trouble relating to my w, her D. If her mom found out and especially her dad, they would be livid and her dad has been helping us with a few things including tuition for our old kid, and he might threaten to cut her off which God knows what would happen then.

So bottom line, if I told her I would tell her parents the next time that happened it might work or she might call my bluff and I would have to let it have consequences.

[guitarguy09]

I forgot to add, yes the financial side would make it difficult to divorce. If finances were better, ironically the stress would somewhat go away but I think that would only temporarily make things better. I think she has a constant need to find fun or excitement in her life, and honestly I could have seen us getting divorced years ago had finances been a little better. But at the same time we do love each other, so it's complicated. And I do still like her after all these years but obviously makes it difficult with her acting out like this.

[guitarguy09]

Update: I do have some positive news. The number I was talking to her was for an online business she was interested in being a part of. That was the number I was most worried about but it doesn't look like she's texted that one so it's likely she was just asking the person questions about the business.  So she was telling the truth about that which is good.

[guitarguy09]

Sorry for all the replies, but after some further digging, I don't know that this just was a business relationship. Ugh. I matched his profile picture on facebook to one on her Tinder. So I will be on the lookout but I texted the guy yesterday and I don't think he'll be contacting her again (nothing too bad just to let him know I saw the text records). He played dumb but he knows he texted her.

[Longterm]

Sorry for all the replies, but after some further digging, I don't know that this just was a business relationship. Ugh. I matched his profile picture on facebook to one on her Tinder. So I will be on the lookout but I texted the guy yesterday and I don't think he'll be contacting her again (nothing too bad just to let him know I saw the text records). He played dumb but he knows he texted her.

Post away guitarguy09.

Is this guy really the problem here? Do you plan to contact every guy she texts? Are you avoiding confrontation with your wife?

LT

[guitarguy09]

Post away guitarguy09.

Is this guy really the problem here? Do you plan to contact every guy she texts? Are you avoiding confrontation with your wife?

LT

Not really, I mean it's not his fault she's being loose with her morals. I don't plan to text any others because it would ultimately be a fruitless exercise. I thought he would text her and she might feel a little embarrassed. I hate invading her privacy but at the same time know in my gut something isn't quite right. Sorry if I'm all over the place.

[guitarguy09]

I should add that it's our birthdays coming up next week and that's part of the reason I don't want a big blow up right now. And one of our kids had to go into urgent care today which turned out to be fine but a big stressor.

[Still Here]

Hey GG:

This sounds terrible.  I'm sorry.

A couple of questions, and I'm just spit-balling here so please don't take offense if I'm way off or otherwise indelicate.

1)  Do you think that part of the allure for her is knowing that you are checking up on her and constantly "catching" her?  It does not seem like she learns from her mistakes when she is caught - maybe she wants to be caught.

2)  Do you get anything out of monitoring her and catching her?

I ask because it seems like an incredibly painful spin cycle that is allowed to continue.  No judgment.  I think most of us on this board have some kind of similar revolving pain inflicting spin cycle weather it's sexuality, money, kids, the remote control, anything.  I have found that there are times when I get something out of these repeat infliction on me by my W.  That realization came with a lot of shame, but it was also empowering because I was able to recognize my own part in the cycle.  Again, I could could be way off, and I hope I am, but I thought I would just raise it.

[Longterm]

I hate invading her privacy but at the same time know in my gut something isn't quite right. Sorry if I'm all over the place.

I can empathize here guitarguy09, it's really not a nice place to be and It's understandable that your feeling all over the place. It really is tough, it seems like you keep digging and unfortunately our gut instincts are often correct. What if this cheating did or has become physical, how do you think you would proceed if divorce is not an option right now?

LT

[Enabler]

I get digging (or truth management I like to call it), I truly do and think it's utterly fair play when someone is so deceitful.

That said, I am also conscious of how this can be flipped round to be accused of being 'controlling'. Do you feel like you're saving her from herself or do you feel you're just motivated to manage your own perception of the truth.

Here's the rub... she'll lie to you, that's what she does. When you tell her or show her her shame, she'll likely just try and hide that shame from you going forwards. I do find it odd that she gives you free reign over her phone to see all this info, does she want you to see it, else why wouldn't she just put a password on her phone! By confronting her with the information you are in essence trying to control her... rightly or wrongly. Attaining the truth and then deciding what YOU want to do with that information sits better with me. She is dishonest, you seek your own truth, YOU act on that truth... rather than She is dishonest, you seek the truth, you tell HER SHE needs to act on that shame.

Enabler

[guitarguy09]

Still here -

Thanks for your response. I should clarify something, when I say she tells me I have free reign over her phone, she doesn't just leave it lying around or offer for me to check it. But she has not changed the passcode and knows I know it at the same time. I thought of asking her "can I check your phone" sometimes when I know she's up to something but like Enabler said she's even more likely to hide the truth about what's going on. So when she's checking on the kids or taking care of them in the bath or even late night sometimes I will check it when she's fast asleep. Last night I saw she had deleted her Tinder and Kik apps which was great, and maybe that is a positive, but she might just be putting those back on when I leave for work in the morning or something. I'll probably wait a couple days then check again.

LT - If this did become physical or if it becomes physical later on, I feel that the next time I need to warn her about it anyway I will say if I find that you're cheating the first people I will tell will be your Mom and Dad which would be devastating to her. She has a small circle of people who really respect her and her parents have been there rooting for our marriage from the start. If it continued after that I would have to consider if the marriage is worth keeping or at the very least some marriage counseling.

Enabler - Thanks, I have seen on Reddit some guys who have "spied" on their women get judged very harshly even though they knew there was something wrong. I agree, I feel turnabout is fair play in this case. I have put together some information and could call her out on how she texted that person, but you're right, I should come up with an action plan of what to do with what I've discovered.

[I Am Redeemed]

This thread has reached the posting limit and is now locked. Part 2 is here:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=338358.msg13066228#msg13066228