Falling out of love

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I am no longer "in love" with my uBPD H.

The "good side" he showed me more than 20 years ago disappeared one year into our marriage after he love bombed and courted me.  At that time, he also showed me I was not his spouse and partner, but that his children from his first marriage to a uNPD W were the most important people in his life.  (They were all under 10 when we married, and the covert incest continues now that they are all around 30.)

H raged and dysregulated when I was going to go to an annual hobby club meeting.  H hates it when I am happy.  He started complaining about house keeping, so I got fed up and let him have my thoughts in no uncertain terms.  I spoke of his uNPD X W and how she treated him, and how she turned the children against him, all the while using the CS money for herself and her lover, whom she married.  I felt H needed a little dose of reality on what life was like with her.  In that moment of dissociation, H hated me for my poor housekeeping and depression, and seems to have forgotten married life the first time around for him: emotional abuse, adultery and taking the children clear across the country after the divorce.  (The children were then idealized and overvalued and learned to abuse and manipulate their father; they are all in some NPD or BPD spectrum.)

I did not hold my thoughts back.  If H had any fantasies about his first marriage, I corrected him.  H was raging and hollering, so I asked him if he wanted to throw furniture, punch a hole in the wall, or divorce me.  I continure to get ready for my club meeting.

In the past, I would be devastated by his rages.  For days, I could not eat or sleep, broken down and terrified.

Now, I really don't care.  My self esteem is such that I understand his rages are just the rants of a scared boy.  My FIL is uNPD, and it's disgusting to see an elderly man carry on like a toddler.  Although I understand why my H is like this, that does not mean I have to tolerate it.  I told him to go have a good cry.

It's clear in these moments of dysregulation that H is merging me with his X W, who is the same racial mix as me.  I am  convinced H courted me and married me because of this. 

Yesterday, I reached my breaking point and let H have some of my choice words and a dose of reality.  H seems to have pouted him self to sleep, and then went to work before I rose and went to work.  I have no idea what it will be like when H comes home.  Frankly, I am ready for whatever he has to say.  He can rage and I will ignore it for the tantrum that it is. 

[AskingWhy]

I am no longer "in love" with my uBPD H.

The "good side" he showed me more than 20 years ago disappeared one year into our marriage after he love bombed and courted me.  At that time, he also showed me I was not his spouse and partner, but that his children from his first marriage to a uNPD W were the most important people in his life.  (They were all under 10 when we married, and the covert incest continues now that they are all around 30.)

H raged and dysregulated when I was going to go to an annual hobby club meeting.  H hates it when I am happy.  He started complaining about house keeping, so I got fed up and let him have my thoughts in no uncertain terms.  I spoke of his uNPD X W and how she treated him, and how she turned the children against him, all the while using the CS money for herself and her lover, whom she married.  I felt H needed a little dose of reality on what life was like with her.  In that moment of dissociation, H hated me for my poor housekeeping and depression, and seems to have forgotten married life the first time around for him: emotional abuse, adultery and taking the children clear across the country after the divorce.  (The children were then idealized and overvalued and learned to abuse and manipulate their father; they are all in some NPD or BPD spectrum.)

I did not hold my thoughts back.  If H had any fantasies about his first marriage, I corrected him.  H was raging and hollering, so I asked him if he wanted to throw furniture, punch a hole in the wall, or divorce me.  I continure to get ready for my club meeting.

In the past, I would be devastated by his rages.  For days, I could not eat or sleep, broken down and terrified.

Now, I really don't care.  My self esteem is such that I understand his rages are just the rants of a scared boy.  My FIL is uNPD, and it's disgusting to see an elderly man carry on like a toddler.  Although I understand why my H is like this, that does not mean I have to tolerate it.  I told him to go have a good cry.

It's clear in these moments of dysregulation that H is merging me with his X W, who is the same racial mix as me.  I am  convinced H courted me and married me because of this. 

Yesterday, I reached my breaking point and let H have some of my choice words and a dose of reality.  H seems to have pouted him self to sleep, and then went to work before I rose and went to work.  I have no idea what it will be like when H comes home.  Frankly, I am ready for whatever he has to say.  He can rage and I will ignore it for the tantrum that it is. 

[Lucky Jim]

Hey AW, I'm sorry to hear what you're going through.  What would you like to see happen?  I'm unsure from your post.  What are your gut feelings?

LuckyJim

[AskingWhy]

Jim, I am not sure what I want at this point.

All I know is that I reached my tolerance level and let my H have an earful.  H was in a full rage, cutting me down for any and every reason he could think of.  His childhood with his uNPD F must have been frightful, but I was in no mood to be H's punching bag for the anger toward his F or his X W. 

I am glad I can account for myself with my head held high, no longer intimidated by holes punched in walls or threats of divorce.  I once used to love this man and married him.  It has taken more than twenty years of being a fifth wheel to his children and abuse to cause me to slowly stop loving him.

I am able to say, "I don't deserved this, and I deserve better."

[Notwendy]

I think you have been through a lot. I don't think we can expect to feel loving feelings for people who have treated us poorly.

You've tolerated this for a long time. Now you are starting to respond in a different way- letting him know you won't tolerate it.

This can hopefully start to change the dynamics, not necessarily a change in feelings on your part, but that you aren't putting up with this. He may keep doing this- old patterns are hard to change, but in time, he may realize that what worked for him before doesn't work now.

I don't know where this will lead for the two of you, but you don't have to tolerate being treated poorly.

[Lucky Jim]

Hello again, AW, No, you don't deserve to be treated poorly, as Notwendy notes.

My BPDxW punched holes in the walls, too.  She also broke down doors, threw wine bottles at me and destroyed my personal items.  It's not OK and I find it unacceptable today.  It all starts with loving and accepting oneself, in my view.  Nowadays, I care too much about myself to ever be the object of anyone's abuse again.  Maybe that could be a goal for you, too, to get to that place.

LJ

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear AW and friends-

I am so sorry you’re feeling like this, and so very sorry you’ve felt pushed to your limit.  This is NOT a “run” message, but have you considered a therapeutic separation- a brief time for yourself?  Some quiet time to sort out your thoughts, feelings and interactions with your H?

It seems that lately your emotions have run at a more heightened level, and I’m not sure how healthy that is for YOU.

In our relationships, there is enough pain to go around.  We all understand this firsthand.  I too am a stepmom.  Or I was before I eventually “lost” my kids following my divorce.  Another story for another day.  But AW, the pain.  Yea the pain.  It adds up.  And we hold our tongues until we sometimes can’t. 

But we’ve got to be careful because we DON’T generally disassociate and forget our words.  We carry the guilt and remorse of the codependent and remember what we’ve said.

I don’t think we enter our relationships “unwounded”... or we would not have stayed, bewildered by it all.  However you are now stronger and have the understanding of your H, his past, his pain and his illness.  You’ve gained your own strength and self esteem.  You are “capable” in every way.  In every single way.

And with this, YOUR strength, you have no reason to fear taking whatever steps necessary to take space for yourself; improve your marriage; improve interaction with the s-kids... because YOU are the one with the insight.  You. 

You are the one who can be clear enough to see choices.

Maybe it’s the moon... but the last few weeks have seemed trying.  I don’t know if “falling” in love with my uBPDbf was a choice; but continuing to love him IS my choice.

Your thoughts?  Anyone’s thoughts?

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Notwendy]

I don’t think we enter our relationships “unwounded”... or we would not have stayed, bewildered by it all.

This is a key point for me. Someone with emotionally healthy boundaries may initially date someone with BPD, but I think as they get to know the person, they don't feel a match with someone who is constantly violating them.

On the other hand, I do know a narcissistic man, who is initially so charming that he has won over women without them having any idea. He was engaged to a friend of mine for a while and then the relationship became abusive. Since I wasn't more than a casual acquaintance, I didn't see this side of him. However, even as initially charming as this man can be at first, his relationships don't last so who knows. I think one can marry someone and not know there's disorder, but I also think in other situations there were signs and someone- the other person chose to ignore them or didn't recognize them.

I know that for me, growing up in a family where I was both loved ( by dad at times ) and emotionally abused,  I had a confusing idea of what love is. My BPD mother is severely disordered and I would not recognize more subtle situations.

Love isn't a feeling but a verb. We choose to love someone. There is initial chemistry at the beginning of every relationship but that isn't something that can last without choosing to love the other person. Our FOO, our own emotional wounds influence that feeling of "chemistry". Although that feeling of love can guide us, if we have our own "wounds" that can also guide us to match with dysfunctional people.

Freedom- comes from dealing with our own emotional "wounds" in or out of a relationship.

We do have the choice to love someone. Love can be at different levels. At the least, there's the love a person because they are humans- a charitable love, but that's not the whole of romantic love. It is a starting point though. The other person has their own issues, their own hurts, they are human. If that is all I can do at the moment, then that is a start. For some people, that's all of the relationship.

Then there is self love, which is essential. The same start- I am a human and I don't have to tolerate abuse. The other person can decide to continue abusive behavior or not. I can't change the other person. I can choose how to respond. I don't want to love a person romantically who continues to abuse me but I can still acknowledge that they are human. It is possible to protect ourselves without causing additional harm to someone via our own anger and resentment. They may not be happy with our decisions, but we don't have to increase the drama with insults or hurting back.  Empathy for them doesn't take away from my own self love.

You don't have to be in love with someone to have empathy and basic "love your neighbor" love, but I think self love is essential in any relationship. With self love, you will be able to make the best decisions for yourself with regards to a relationship.

[AskingWhy]

Thank you, NW, LJ and Gems.

It is clearly my FOO which caused me to make these poor choices in spouses.  My first H was also uBPD.  When he devalued me and suddenly left (saying he never loved me after 5 years of marriage), I was shocked and devastated, to say the least.  One day, he just left, moved out and I never saw him again.  I was simply served divorce papers from a town hundreds of miles away.  He was such a mess even his T (the one I found for him and encouraged him to seek help) confided to me he had many issues.

My current H is uBPD, and I have now seen the pattern and how I played a role in these choices.  I agree with my own woundedness.  My FOO had one parent uBPD and the other was supportive but died while I was still a child.  I was raised with inconsistency and abusive rage with that parent--one day kind and loving and the next day destroying my toys and telling me I should never have been born.

I am now filled with my own anger (having read Bancroft's books on abuse.)  Anger is a normal reaction to awakening to abuse and the empowerment that follows.  Bancroft advises to use the anger to move forward for positive change. 

As for the love I feel for my H, I do love him still.  I care for him but not with the romantic love I once felt.  I have no desire anymore for physical intimacy.  (One cannot blame me.)  I love him as a human being who is horrible messed up, as for a lost child.  He gets drunk because deep inside he hates himself and his own horrid FOO (far worse than mine), and this soothes the pain for awhile.  When he is hung over, I look after him.  Again, not as a wife, but more like a care giver.

Yesterday, H was giving mixed messages about my hobby weekend.  As you know, I have a disability and cannot often drive.  H was shamed into driving me, and yet harranguedd me all the way to the event:  complained about the traffic, how he hates the traffic, how he has to drive in traffic during the work week, etc.  in essence poisoning the favor of the ride.  To come home, I was so fed up that I took a ride share.

H verbally punches me for being depressed, but then encourages me to go to the hobby meetings.  Go figure. Mixed messages.  When I come home happy and enthused, H scowls and complains about the house work that is not done.  These are double binds common in pwPDs.  (Shades of my uBPD parent!)

I have to keep H's insanity in the back of my mind, and keep telling myself that I am the sane one in the R/S.  I want to cry and then tell my self, "Why?  You are not the crazy one here!"  I  give myself my own pep talks and it allows me to go forward.  (And then there are those days when I reach my breaking point and give H a dressing down.)

In all this, I no longer allow my H's moods and rages to reflect on my own self worth.  It's all on him and his FOO.

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear AW-

First, I am very sorry that you lost your dear parent as a child.  That is so painful and traumatic; and you were left with another parent who constantly fed you mixed and painful messages, longing for consistent love.  Sadly we, all of us, go toward what we know... what is familiar to us.

And I am sorry for the impact your first marriage had on you.  And now for what you’re enduring with your BPDh.  But now AW... now... I think it’s time for YOU to heal.

When we finally identify the “it” of IT, it’s often after we’ve endured a whole lot of IT.  And you bet we can become angry.  I know I was.  When I was struggling terribly last summer, a very kind member here explained that anger knows no time.  That hit me hard - was a real eye opener.

My anger hit with full force beginning last spring... and ebbed and flowed ... rose and fell... and then peaked and stayed UP.  HIGH.  There was deep depression and SI thrown in there.   I raged at myself.  I had NEVER been able to display anger outwardly.  I screamed at the mirror.  At my mother.  At my very cruel uBPD sister.  At the neighbor who repeatedly molested me as a child.  At the man who raped me in college.  At my NPD ex-H.  At my uBPDbf... except it was all in the mirror, and all directed at me.  I hated myself.  I came here for help.  So lost...

Finally found a therapist.  I’ve had traits.  How could I NOT?  But I’ve always been self-reflective.  I always asked myself if I was crazy.

I operated in a world of disassociation.  During my marriage, when he would do the next horrible thing I would say out loud, “I have to remember I feel like this”.  And then I would forget.  Like it never happened.  That was my shield of protection.

And now AW, after facing all these things... I can remember.  I use these tools with uBPDbf.  I love him bravely.  He loves me back.  He’s no angel, but he’s a good man.  He’s NOT my ex-H.  He does NOT act out of malice.  If he did, I would leave.  That’s the difference.

What’s your difference?  Are you at your turning point?

How can we help you?  I know you can help yourself.  You are SO worth it.  And worth loving.  Your husband knows that.  I know there are answers to feeling better.

One final thing I want to say... as a stepmom.  For 19 years.  The things your h does or tries to do for his kids, to try to gain their love and attention and approval, are NOT against you.  If you can, please release those thoughts once and for all.  Yes, his efforts may appear out of whack and perhaps dysfunctional to you, but he knows no other way.  What he remembers is the pain of his x-W taking his young children away from him.  And he’s still trying to get them back.  He’s NOT trying to send you away.  It’s NOT one or the other.  It never was.  I lived this.

Let’s talk.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[AskingWhy]

My anger hit with full force beginning last spring... and ebbed and flowed ... rose and fell... and then peaked and stayed UP.  HIGH.  There was deep depression and SI thrown in there.   I raged at myself.  I had NEVER been able to display anger outwardly.  I screamed at the mirror.  At my mother.  At my very cruel uBPD sister.  At the neighbor who repeatedly molested me as a child.  At the man who raped me in college.  At my NPD ex-H.  At my uBPDbf... except it was all in the mirror, and all directed at me.  I hated myself.  I came here for help.  So lost...

Finally found a therapist.  I’ve had traits.  How could I NOT?  But I’ve always been self-reflective.  I always asked myself if I was crazy.

 

Gems, anger is a part of healing from an abusive R/S.  Bancroft's, "Should I Stay or Should I Go?" talks about being in abusive R/Ss (without the clinical discussion) and how anger towards the abuse and the abuser is a path toward healing.  

Partners of pwBPD have a right to our anger.  Dr. Northrup discusses this in, "Energy Vampires," and Patricia Evans in her, "Verbal Abuse."

Too many times anger is said to be a bad thing, but Northrup talks about "righteous anger" at being abused by a person with a PD.  Anger has its place.  

I am there now with my anger.  I am working on forgiving my uBPD parent who emotionally and physically abused me, and who destroyed my childhood self esteem.  I understand that person was abused by NPD or BPD parents, and am in the process of moving on.

Being attracted to BPD men was part of my repetition compulsion.  Now I have stopped the process in my life.   I am now healing myself and dealing with a uBPD H who gets on my nerves.  If I cannot tolerate who he is, and the way he is (he is not in therapy nor has a clue he needs it) right now, I may have to move on.  I have read Eddy's, "Splitting," on divorceing a pwBPD and am ready for the turmoil I will have to endure on the way to sanity for me.  

[Perdita]

AskingWhy,

I am sorry you're dealing with another blow out. The only certainty in a relationship with bpd partner seems to be that we will be blamed and resented for something no matter how hard we try to keep the peace.

I so hear you on falling out of love.  I have been going through the same thing this entire year.  It's sad, but I think probably a good thing as it can lead to more control over our emotions which means that they don't have the same hold over us that they once did. Mine had breakfast with his old crush yesterday morning and I suspect they went to the beach together today. I don't care quite enough anymore to care.  She's a right royal slag and he's a fool.  They only make themselves look bad while thinking they are outsmarting me. It's like you said, you are not the crazy one in the relationship. I too find power in reminding myself of this.

As for him making the ride so unpleasant.  Been there many times myself.  I can honestly say that I know what you're going through. I too have to rely on mine for rides which means I rarely get to take care of things I need to.  I am now working towards changing this, but estimate it will take a full year to accomplish.
 

[AskingWhy]

This evening H dysregulated.  He turned in early and one of the cats got him up and wanted to leave the bedroom.  (We have a little zoo in our bedroom.) 

He got up angrily, let the cat out and then slammed the bedroom door, scaring the other cats and the dogs.

H is just like a cranky toddler who needs a nap.  When one of our old little dogs was dying, I wrote, H dumped her out of her bed in the middle of the night when she soiled herself, raging at the frightened little dog.  No empathy.  I raged back at him, saying he would never do that to his beloved and adored infant grandson.  (With NPDs and BPDs, children and grandchildren are seems as extensions of themselves.  I cannot see H raging at GS if he woke up crying.  Instead, H would be cooing the child back to sleep.)

Of course, I raged at H for scaring all the innocent animals, told him to get a grip and stop acting like his F.

[Notwendy]

I agree with you that anger is a normal emotion, not judged as bad or good, but necessary for survival. I also agree that you have reason to be angry at your H.

However, anger also has a biological effect by activating our fight or flight system and in the moment, can cloud judgement sometimes.

Humans, unlike some other animals, have the ability to choose how we respond to emotions, not just anger, but since anger is one that can cloud our judgement, it is one to pay attention to.

You have the right to rage at your H, but I wonder what, in the long run, do you want to accomplish in your relationship? You don't love him but you are both still living in the same house. Is it possible to achieve some sort of co-existence where you are not constantly raging at each other? Of course he should not be abusing you or the animals. I don't know what to suggest. Does he like the animals? Should you have separate bedrooms and you sleep with the animals? Is there a way to manage this besides raging at him?