Don't want to visit my Dad today ( just a venting)

[Swimmy55]

HI,
 Just a small venting here.   I had recently put 2 and 2 together through this board and realized my 87 year old Dad has undiagnosed BPD.  He had an explosive episode with me roughly  3 weeks ago  of rant.   Due to his age, his rant episodes diminished in frequency probably because they take a lot of energy out of him.   I am going there with my brother tonight because we are trying to keep up visits to  at least every 2 weeks.   I am dreading it.  Like with most BPD , he can be pleasant and affable , but then turns in a matter of seconds.  there is a good chance he won't rage for a while since he has had his episode already, but I still have major defenses/ hackles up with a dash of resentment. 
I usually post more  on the Child having BPD board due to my adult son being diagnosed with BPD.  My Dad and I have already been through hell with him, now I just want peace, not for Dad to pick up another hell and run with it.  we should be coming together, right?  I know this is fantasy, but I want a family network,! Ok i am done with the venting, thanks for listening.

[SadtimesAZ]

Not necessarily bpd. Could be dementia, schizophrenia, bipolar. For some it's just depressing getting old and there's no one to vent to, kinda like you are doing.

[Methuen]

Hi Swimmy55,

 

I know this is fantasy, but I want a family network,!

Hmm.  I just this summer have accepted that I will never have what I want, which is a rational normal mom ("family network").  Since accepting that I will never have my fantasy mom, I feel more emotionally detached.  For me, this is healthy because since finally hitting my bottom with her behavior, I have accepted that I am the one that must change, because she just is never going to.  Now, I'm learning how to communicate with a BPD person, and set boundaries.  It's a work in progress, but at least I feel like I'm moving forward.  L/C has also helped settle the "fear" of her I had 24/7.  My counsellor said yesterday, that fearing the future leads us to anxiety, and remembering the past leads to depression.  Better to live in the present. I'm finding it a fairly big learning curve, but I at least feel I'm slowly moving forward and not "stuck". 

I hope your visit with your dad goes better than you expect  

Just do your best during your visit.  That's all we can do.  Don't get emotionally sucked into the black hole of conflict, regardless of what he says. It's his illness that's saying those things, and behaving that way.  You can calmly say that he is hurting you by saying those things, and ask him to stop, and say something positive, or you will have to go take a walk to look after your own well being, and come back when everyone is calmed down.  Then go for a walk and a coffee.  As the children of BP's (or any other mental disability), it's not our job to be abused, or feel guilty about setting up boundaries.  They are accountable for their behavior, and we have to look after ourselves.  It's so hard for us to do.  I'm just in the early stages of learning and accepting all this.  Sometimes I wonder if it's easier to support someone else with the same problem, than to do ourselves what we can see is right for others (if that makes sense).

As SadtimesAZ said, even if its not BPD but maybe dementia, we still need to look after ourselves, and give ourselves permission to do that.  Have you discussed it with hospital staff?

[Swimmy55]

Thank you for your responses.

He has always ranted and raged as early as I can remember throughout my life , so it's not dementia.
The only reason I suspected undiagnosed BPD  in my Dad is that he has used the same tactics, even said things the same way as my BPD diagnosed 25 year old son. The same manipulative, circular ranting , emotional blackmail, the same problem with alcohol,( although my son is now into hard drugs).  It could well be bipolar, so maybe I am being hasty. 

He is not in the hospital, he lives independently ( which is a true blessing and we should be celebrating that instead of me bracing for a rage event).  He gets medical checkups and comes up aces ( even though he has smoked for over 40+ years and was addicted to alcohol. )
Your words have helped me Methuen. 

[Harri]

Hi Swimmy.   

Ugh... the visits can be tough especially if you are not in a good place emotionally.  Is your brother a source of support?

[Swimmy55]

Thanks Harri
I am sitting in the car getting nerve to go in. My brother isn’t coming so it’s me.  Wish me luck ...

[Swimmy55]

So other than some mild gaslighting from him, the visit wasn’t bad.  Harri like you said, I am not in a good headspace due to bpd son and dreaded any further bpd like behavior from Dad. 

[Harri]

You got through it!     I knew you would, but I was still hoping it would be relatively easy too.

What tools can you use for self care before you visit next time?  I used to make sure I was okay emotionally and would do a lot of self talk, reminding myself about projection, splitting and boundaries.  Would that help?  It is hard when you are dealing with it from multiple levels.

 

[secretgirl]

HANG IN THERE.
Recently dating my ubpdbf has actually opened my eyes to a lot of BPD symptoms in my MOM. and NARC symptoms in my DAD> LOL so to say the least, I feel the exact same as you but you know what? It's almost like the other replier said in this thread, once you KNOW or REALIZE theres something wrong, it's almost like a calming affect because you know they just have issues.
I know it sucks having to deal with the rants but I grew up with it all my life from my mom. the constant mood swings, and as a kid, I learned to shut up and retreat because I knew it's the only thing that worked with her
I'll never forget the time where we woke up (and every day was a diff. mood for her and you just NEVER knew what you were gonna get that day ) and she flew off the handle about how we never help with dishes (untrue-she never asked and when we offered, she refused our help), and that we never helped cook and we are ungrateful spoiled children blah blah blah. then literally 5 min after he episode, she came into my room being like "so honey, what do you want for dinner tonight?" LMAO
It's almost like a comedy movie. So I guess the main things I learned from my mom can apply to your dad:
1.) just learn to detach, and control YOUR feelings because like you said, they aren't changing (proven by the fact my mother and your father lack self-awareness) and probably won't ever want to.
2.) just kind of find a comedy about it to help ease your anxiety... even if it's AFTER the venting... Maybe think back to something your dad said? Did it seem funny? Sometimes I pick apart my ubpdbf's PLEASE READ and although it hurts in the moment A LOT, after I laugh at some of the stuff he says.
3.) always prove through ACTIONS you're there for them regardless. BPD people don't care about words. Like my mom, offering to "help with dishes" didn't work. I just learned to just DO THEM. And sometimes even then I'd get punished because she would say I didn't wash them well enough or how SHE liked it. which then I shrugged off and was like "meh I tried. can't say I didn't try". and I just KEPT trying. and more consistently than not, she would appreciate it.


They're just fearful and projecting. Just remember the comedy thing... maybe it'll help you as much as it helped me see the light in the darkness? *hugs*

[Swimmy55]

Thank you Harri and Secretgirl.  I have become a victim and I have to remind me that I am not.  I also must read the readings anew with my Dad in mind now.  Thanks for the support and reminders.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Swimmy55, 

Returning to the trauma over and over is super tough. Even though you might have an okay visit here and there, the tough thing with BPD or someone with the traits of BPD is that we are on our best and highest guard due to past experiences, aka the trauma. Our bodies remember, even if our head wants to say it will be okay.

My T has a set of rules that he constantly reminds me of: get out, get safe, and stay safe. This can be physically, emotionally, or whatever form that safety is. For me, it has often been the necessary reminders to keep my little ones, my inner children, safe.

Do you know how old you feel when you go to see your dad? What reminders are there from a certain time frame in your life? Pondering on this may offer you some clues as to the way to process and protect yourself in the future.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts! I hope you are doing okay today. 

Wools

[secretgirl]

Thank you Harri and Secretgirl.  I have become a victim and I have to remind me that I am not.  I also must read the readings anew with my Dad in mind now.  Thanks for the support and reminders.

Of course! You're so welcome... just remember we are here for you to talk to and vent to... sometimes you just wanna vent and have someone like us be there and say "yah well that SUCKS" and just to sympathize. I only have empathy because I was in very relatable situations but I can't imagine how YOU feel because you are you and have unique individualistic experiences. Are you still nervous for your next weekly visit? What will you do to prepare for it next week?

[Swimmy55]

@Wools- that is terrific what your T stated about get out, get safe, stay safe. I actually wrote that on a post it and stuck it on my desk at work. I feel like a bad 10-15 year old ( I'm almost 57) whenever I am around  him. Lots of food for thought I have to journal about.
@Secretgirl, you are right I have to prepare for the next visit and have a strategy for myself.  Maybe I will read some more on this site about Wisemind, and SET,  I am not certain I have grasped those .    I also plan to hit a CODA 12 step meeting on Saturday( Co dependents anonymous).   Maybe I also need to look in the library on this site for books on parents that are BPD ( I only read Walking on Eggshells so far. 
Thank you

[Harri]

Hi Swimmy!

Check out this book review from the library

Understanding the Borderline Mother At the bottom of the first post you will see a link to the free audio book on youtube.

I know you are dealing with a dad with possible BPD but you can extrapolate the info and apply it to your father.

[Swimmy55]

Thank you Harri

[Panda39]

Hi Swimmy,

A couple more book suggestions...

Surviving a Borderline Parent: How to Heal Your Childhood Wounds and Build Trust, Boundaries, and Self-Esteem
by Kimberlee Roth, Randi Kreger (Foreword by), Freda B. Friedman (Joint Author)

Review/Library link from this site on the above book...
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=68021.0

And related to what Wools was talking about...

The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma by Bessel van der Kolk

Review/Library link from this site on the above book...
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=301413.0

Knowledge is power...keep digging and learning.

Panda39

[Swimmy55]

Thank you Panda
I will check these out.

[zachira]

I hear why you don't want to visit your father with BPD. You don't feel safe with him, never knowing when he will suddenly go into a rage without any real apparent triggers. You are limiting your visits which can help yet you probably wish you did not have to endure the never ending abuse again. When we have family members with BPD, the challenges just never seem to end. We are here to support you and help in any way we can.

[secretgirl]

Hi Swimmy, how are you holding up?
Sorry, been dealing with my own ubpdbf problems so couldn't reply sooner... how are you feeling now?
have you figured out a way to approach him on the next visit?
I know it doesn't sound good of me to say this but the silver lining here is that you don't have to see him much to have to deal with it ALL the time... that's another positive to focus on now that he's older and he's not living with you etc. 

[Swimmy55]

Thanks @Zachira
@Secretgirl, no problem   at all. I agree with you heartily about Dad and I not living under the same roof.  I haven't hammered out a complete strategy yet for the next visit, but plan to get some reading under my belt with the book suggestions given here.  And I am a wimp, I am hoping my Bro will visit this week alone since he missed last week . 
I am really glad you all are here...

[secretgirl]

Thanks @Zachira
@Secretgirl, no problem   at all. I agree with you heartily about Dad and I not living under the same roof.  I haven't hammered out a complete strategy yet for the next visit, but plan to get some reading under my belt with the book suggestions given here.  And I am a wimp, I am hoping my Bro will visit this week alone since he missed last week . 
I am really glad you all are here...

Awe ! You’re doing great. I’m super happy you’re all here too... this is the best place to vent when others can relate or understand our situations . I hope the readings help you and I’d love to hear what strategy you end up coming up with ... hopefully your brother can go alone this time so you have some time to yourself to recover from last time and think about your approach for next time . Always take care of yourself . You’re #1.

[TelHill]

Hi Swimmy,

I like your goldfish. S/he is a cutie!

Do you have to go when your brother can't make it? Skip it.  Dad may be angry at bro (a guy) and taking it out on you since you're a woman? Don't know if that's the case but it's been known to happen that way for many of us.

Do you involve your dad with your son's issues? Not sure if I read that correctly.If so, at that age he may feel helpless to assist. He's reminded that he's elderly.

I don't tell my dad about household maintenance issues and problems I have. He used to do a lot of the work for me. Now he can't and gets mad when I vent to him about problems with contractors, shoddy work.

[Swimmy55]

TelHill,
 Your post hit me between the eyes and provided more insight to me on what could be going on.  He has major problems with my Bro and who he married.  I mildly asked a question about the problem back in Oct. 2018, and apparently it has been festering and twirling in his mind until the blow up this summer with me.   
It involves prejudice on my Dad's part to the new daughter in law.  DIL also has her own kids from a previous relationship.  So I gently asked a question about it appears he has a problem with the DIL.  Dad is angry at the Bro and at how dare I question him.  But yes, I am the safer target . Wow.
And the maintenance issues!  I can't win with those.  I don't tell him , he comes over and sees the new furnace, he asks questions about it and then roars on how I was taken for a ride on the price, he could have negotiated better, but he guesses I did the best I could as a lone woman handling such a situation.  Then I went the other way and included him on another home improvement issue last October and that is when this convo happened that he has held onto and conflated into a blow up this past summer.  When I include him, he spins .  When I don't include him he roars.  So the heck with it, the current home improvement issue I am just hiring contractors and getting it done.  He knows about it, because he spied new paint on the gutters and asked.  I told. You are correct though, he popped up yesterday to inspect.  I am sure this will be another blow up before too long.  But thanks, Telhill, your post is spot on.
Very thought provoking on maybe sometimes I don't  have to visit him and will just do a phone call.  It's funny that choice was always there but I didn't see it.  Thank you.  I am starting to read the Body Keeps Score and Surviving a Borderline parent at the same time.  I'll settle down with one book at a time if it gets too overwhelming.