Need advice

[Summerdaze12]

Hi, new here. I am at a loss. My adult DD has not officially been diagnosed, however, she meets all the criteria and I am certain this is what we have been dealing with for years. The  biggest problem that I am having and just don't know how to handle is her accusing me of things that never happened, but I know she truly believes they have.  I find these issues come up when she is stressed and I do believe she over medicates on medicine that she is prescribed, however they are controlled substances.  She had a bad breakup several years ago, and she still insists that my husband and I were involved along with a local sports team? It just makes no sense to me. I find lately that when she starts going on about things that aren't true and are completely off the wall, I end up telling her I love her and hanging up.  She usually ends up calling a few days later and she is fine.  I guess I feel guilty hanging up on her.  She has lost so many good friends , as she has accused all of them of being in on it as well.  Is there a better way to handle her calls?  I have read and re-read all the recommended books, and it does help when she is more herself, however, when she gets in these rants, nothing seems to help.  Any advice would be appreciated!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Jen2020]

My DD18 does same.  She will twist everything I say into some extreme criticism of her.  Simple example, if I say "I need you to help out a little around the house and not pile up dirty dishes in your room", it comes back as "So you think I am just a worthless pig and and a bad person."  Not exaggerating.  It makes you terrified to say or attempt to call out accountability for anything.  In the process of trying to figure out how to deal with having rational discussions and the most basic limits with a child - well 18yo-  that is not rational.   She also destroys her friendships in similar ways to what you describe. 

Sounds like your daughter is not living at home anymore?

[Summerdaze12]

Thank you for sharing your experience, it makes me feel like I am not alone.  Our daughter is older-  30 -and out of the house, which does help.  It is exactly like you said tho, I am not sure how to have a rational conversation with her.  She texted last night, and is so dysregulated that what she was texting didn't make any sense. I chose not to respond at all, but then I feel like I am not giving her the validation that she needs, but honestly I don't even know how to respond at this point.  I think with her too, she suffers from delusions. What she is saying could potentially be true, but it is so far fetched and unrealistic and at this point I think she is making these bizarre connections to fit what she thinks happened.  If that makes any sense. I am doing my best to be loving and supportive because basically I am the only person she has left that has not alienated her- even her siblings have steered away from her.  She does see a psychiatrist, but refuses any counseling. She was in counseling a few years ago, and as soon as the therapist challenged her beliefs about her delusions she decided she didn't need to go anymore. It is so sad, I miss her so much, and she is there, I see it every now and then, which keeps my hope up that one day she will get the help she needs for the peace that she is searching so desperately for.

[Ione]

Thank you for sharing!  I too have an adult daughter, age 34, that twists everything I say into a negative.  She doesn't keep any close friends and has been married twice and many boyfriends, that have all left.  She has a drinking problem and is very promiscuous.  She told our family to "f" off on December 31st and it's been one roller coaster after another.  She would email or text everyone outlandish things in the middle of the night.  I would email her every few days just to let her know we love her and thinking about her, but she would only respond back with mean, horrible words.  Although the last time she told me to "f" off was Easter and I haven't emailed her since then.  She said I'm the gatekeeper and I won't let anyone talk to her.  Really?  What?   

I'm not sure how people handle this - I am trying, but sometimes the stress of it is very overwhelming. 

There are some very strong people in this group!

[Atlmags]

I can certainly relate to what you are saying and I feel for you. My grown daughter also twists my words, is paranoid, and blames me (and others) for anything that goes wrong in her life. She never NEVER takes the blame for anything. It is crazymaking. I am so sorry you are going through this.

[Summerdaze12]

Thank you Ione and Altmags for sharing your experiences. It does help hearing others stories and knowing that I am not alone in this.  Right now I am trying to decide how to respond if/when she calls again tonight.  She has called the last two nights very angry, hurt, demanding, accusing etc..she kept asking me if I was "ready to tell the truth".  I stayed calm, tried to ask more questions, validated, and because I wasn't telling her what she wanted to hear ( admitting that I knew and was part of the conspiracy against her and had installed cameras into her house), she told me to F&^* off and she hated me and I was out of her life. Other than validating her feelings of anger, frustration, etc...what else could I have said? I can't validate the delusion that she has, and that is what she wants. It's been 3 years of this conspiracy against her, and I am so tired of going over this over and over..does it ever end? She does seem to cycle with this behavior- she can go weeks, a month, without mentioning it, then she seems to spiral right back to it.  Last night I told her that I would talk to her when "things" settle down and hung up. I was calm when I said it, she tried calling back immediately and I didn't answer and she left it at that. Thinking about the next phone call has my stomach in knots.   

[livednlearned]

I am trying to decide how to respond if/when she calls again tonight.  She has called the last two nights very angry, hurt, demanding, accusing etc..she kept asking me if I was "ready to tell the truth".  I stayed calm, tried to ask more questions, validated, and because I wasn't telling her what she wanted to hear ( admitting that I knew and was part of the conspiracy against her and had installed cameras into her house)

It sounds like you're doing a lot of things right. You are validating her and setting limits and showing tremendous patience when she recovers and acts like nothing happened. For some people with BPD, it can feel like nothing did happen, except to find a safe landing pad for all that emotional distress. Unfortunately for her, this particular loop isn't effective for building good relationships and you are left stunned and devastated.

I think it's Valerie Porr's book where she says that validation is only half the sentence, and that it must be followed with a change strategy. Validation is like a key that unlocks doors to emotional communication, a type of generous listening, and ideally it provides a balance between acceptance and change.

Your daughter responds to acceptance as an affirmation that she's on the right track (paranoia), so you have to pull back on the acceptance and dial up on change. Which it sounds like you did ...

she told me to F&^* off and she hated me and I was out of her life. Other than validating her feelings of anger, frustration, etc...what else could I have said?

Not agreeing with her delusions, choosing to hang up -- those are measures that protect her as much as you. It will not help her to keep talking about something that adds to the frenzied emotions she is riding out.

In other words, she may be trying (unconsciously) to regulate her feelings through you. It doesn't sound like she can do it on her own, so the best you can do is to wind things down and give her some time and space to return to baseline. That might mean doing exactly what you did when you said let's talk in a few days.

Sometimes, a person with severe emotional dysregulation cannot be soothed because the horse is out of the barn, at which point this ball of pure emotion is barreling hell bent in your direction and it's more about setting limits so you aren't trampled.

Last night I told her that I would talk to her when "things" settle down and hung up. I was calm when I said it, she tried calling back immediately and I didn't answer and she left it at that

This is how NEA-BPD Family Connections advised my support group to do exactly this.  

I am so tired of going over this over and over..does it ever end?

I wonder if she (unconsciously) may be using this story to soothe herself when she's overwhelmed by emotions that make no sense to her. It's a story that explains feelings that she is unable to process or understand in another way. Without this particular tidy explanation for how she feels, it might feel terrifying.

One way to accept/change her way of processing these feelings is to ask "what can we do now to improve our relationship?"

If she can't get off the topic, then it's not in her capacity in that moment to problem-solve, so being clear how you feel (sad, hurt, etc.) is appropriate and probably necessary, followed by what you will do (give yourself a time out, hang up, etc.), and how you may need some time for self-care.

Honestly, you sound like a wonderful mom doing a really good job. I know it's hard to be on the receiving end of conflict. My husband and I had a rare argument last night and I was so exhausted and stressed from everything we have going on at the moment that all I could manage was, "I'm trying so hard to use my skills right now."  

It felt awful to have a fight with him and neither of us have BPD. But that's how fights feel -- it got a little easier when I acknowledged to myself that discomfort is a yucky feeling and I don't like it. I kinda just rode out those feelings and said very little because by this point, thanks to what I've learned from my BPD loved one, sometimes it's best to wait until those waves have subsided before trying to solve the big things.  

[Summerdaze12]

Thank you Livednleard for your valuable insight.  You are so right about the horse out of the barn and the fireball of emotions, and I had never thought of the possibility of her regulating her emotions through me- but that makes so much sense. I do not believe she is capable of regulating herself when she is so emotionally distraught.
I love your suggestion about asking her "what can we do not to improve our relationship?", and for strategies I can use when she can't get off topic.

I am sorry to hear about your argument with your husband.  My husband and I rarely argue either, so I think we can be that much more sensitive to one when they do happen. I hope today you are both feeling better, and that the waves have subsided

You mentioned a book by Valerie Poor- do you happen to know the title? It sounds like a book I should read!

Thank you again, you have no idea how much better I felt after reading your post!

[livednlearned]

You make a good point about how rare fights can make us feel even more sensitive. I hadn't thought of that. It was an epiphany for me to realize that a lot of what we go through with non-BPD people is similar to what someone with BPD deals with, but at such a less intense degree.

You mentioned a book by Valerie Poor- do you happen to know the title?

Overcoming Borderline is the title. Her book and Shari Manning's Loving Someone with BPD are my two go-to books. Every time I brush up on them I learn something.

Having a Daughter with BPD by Loebels (I think that's the author) is also really good, especially if your daughter has siblings who are impacted. I feel like it's the only book that really pays attention to the family as a unit and how BPD can impact people individually.

 

[Modesty68]

Hello everyone in this thread

It seems that there is a problem to get our loved ones to seek/follow up the treatment that they need. Does anyone have some good ideas about that?

I think it is really important to find a person that is really patient and who understands that it is reaaly important to build trust before setting up to hard demands.

But when the loved one som many times have been met in a not so good way; how to make them try again?

[Summerdaze12]

Hi Modesty68,

I too struggle with trying to get my daughter to see she needs therapy. I think a lot of people struggle with that, but I think we have so much trouble because it is exactly as you said-when they have been met in a not so good way, why keep trying..why bother?

I realized recently that all the times I was pushing my daughter towards therapy were the times that I was upset and frustrated. She has told me over and over that "therapy doesn't do anything, it doesn't help." And I realized, there is truth in that statement for her- she has tried it in the past, and it didn't work for whatever reasons, so for her it doesn't help.

I decided instead of pushing my agenda on her ( therapy), that I would instead focus on my actions/words to help foster our relationship and build more trust, and hope that one day she will come to the realization that maybe therapy will help in some way.  Until then, I have completely backed off.  I also realize that she has to want it, not me. Pushing her to go won't help her, it will make me feel better, but it's not about me.

I also found that listening to these 2 podcasts were very helpful.

https://www.borderlinepersonalitydisorder.org/recordings-for-families/

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders