Papers are now Field BDPW does not know Figure out what to do for serving.

[Serenitywithin]

So the papers are officially filed.  I am filing for sole custody with supervised visitation only. I have a lot of Guilt over her not knowing this is coming. I think she knows I am more upset with her than normal because she is not able to just reel me back in this time. She will taken by surprise when I have her served, and I am going to try to ensure that none of the kids are home when it happens. I am torn on whether I should be here when it happens to explain to her the reasons and try to let her know where it is all coming from even though I have been telling her for years, OR if I should head to My moms home or My Grandparents vacant home with the kids just before she is server, let her read and digest it, then communicate via phone with her to gauge her reaction to the filing. Then if she seems OK maybe allow me to go by myself with full recording capabilities in hand to Discuss it. or discus it via phone. to make sure see understands where things stand.
A. This is Happening
B, The kids and I can stay in the home while you stay with Parents and you cna come visit each day after school for a bit,
C Or the kids and I can move out and stay with my parents until we can figure out all of the details.
D, If you decide you are talking the kids and trying to go somewhere else, My lawyer will have to take steps that could possibly effect you at work which I do not want to happen.

She works at the kids' school so the Lawyer said if we have to file an TPO against her, she would likely lose her job as that usually means no contact with the kids without supervisor, and she works in all three of their buildings at the school district.

If she refuses to leave the current residence, the Kids and I may stay at one of these other places short term, but she works at the kids school Currently so my older two are afraid once she finds out that she will react poorly and make a scene at their school.

Conflicted about how to handle this serving of papers. Any input from folks that have been through it would be appreciated.

[kells76]

Hey Serenitywithin, sorry it has come to this. I'm sure this isn't what you wanted for your family.

Yes, keep the kids away from her when she gets served. That is wise.

I would keep yourself away, too. You may be perceived as the source of all the bad feelings, so she may not be able to interact with the real you in a safe way. You might embody all the "badness" to her and so it might not be safe or productive for either of you if you also want to inhabit the role of "explaining this to her" and "making it not so bad".

You could consider leaving a physical letter for her where she'll find it, and you could leave your email (or a new email) where you guys can have discussions. If it were me, phone calls would be "next best", and in person would be "way at the bottom". Email gives you a paper trail.

Can you get in touch with school counselors at the kids' schools now, and let them know what might go down? You can share it in a pretty neutral way that still gives them an alert: "Hey, sadly our family structure is changing, and the kids' mom and I aren't going to be together any more. I am concerned that this may impact the kids at school, and I want school to be a place of safety and calm for them. Can you keep an eye on them and any interactions with anyone they may have? Here's my cell # if there is an incident or emergency". Notice you don't blame or badmouth their mom, but you alert the school staff that "stuff might happen".

Sadly, overall, you might not be the best candidate for explaining all this stuff to her. She will struggle to see you as neutral. She may need to figure it out for herself, either on her own or by talking with her own family or by getting her own lawyer.

I would recommend against being alone with just you and her, from now on.

Hang in there;

kells76

[ForeverDad]

I agree meeting her in person would place you at risk of who knows what.  You don't want an incident where it is her word against yours.  When I called and police responded I almost got carted away despite not being aggressive.  The officer did ask me to hand my quietly sobbing preschooler over to his mother and "step away".  My son saved me by squealing loudly and hugging me tighter.  When I got a divorce lawyer, he told me he had been a policeman in his younger days and when on family dispute calls it was policy to separate the couple... and it was always the man who was put in the police car.

Any heads up to her or the kids' schools should be confidential.  Probably best to do it at the last possible moment, it at all, because someone is bound to let it slip, especially someone who might favor her over her husband.

Remember, her getting advance notice, however well intended for the school, could enable her to sabotage your plans.  This is a time of concern for the safety of yourself and the children first.  Sure, later you can have some level of concern for her but not at the expense of yourself and the children.

Remember, her getting advance notice, however well intended for the school, could enable her to sabotage your plans.  This is a time of concern for the safety of yourself and the children first.  Sure, later you can have some level of concern for her but not at the expense of yourself and the children.

Oh, did I repeat myself?  Good!

[PearlsBefore]

I'm trying to remember whether you were the one who had two houses on adjacent lots or not; if so, hope you figured out a way to make that work with NC. If not, forgive me, I have trouble keeping track of folks on here. With the school, you could perhaps invest an afternoon into quietly looking into alternatives for her to transfer, and then have a relative suggest them or just register SouthernOhioSchoolJobs@gmail.com and "anonymously" send her the list of job placements as though you were some corporation whose mailing list she's fortuitously ended up on just at the right time in life (and she won't email you back trying to re-engage)(obviously don't do this if you sought a NC order). It'll be a little less stress for her during what is understandably going to be a very difficult week/month for her.

I'd echo what the others said, don't serve them yourself - you can get a process server in most towns (including smaller towns) to do it for $100 which is the best, you can also just ask a notary if they'd do it themselves for $60 if there are no process servers, or ask a colleague who has a respectable position in society as a favor, but don't do it yourself in-person.

For what it's worth my ex tried to claim she hadn't been served the documents...the judge had zero patience for that nonsense. It's pretty obvious to (hopefully most) judges that the person filing for divorce has little/no reason to lie about trying to inform their spouse, and the unhappy spouse being divorced has lots/every reason to lie to the judge. So that whole process took an hour of driving time, and about ninety seconds of actual court-time, after which it was ruled that of course she was served...but I should email her a copy upon leaving court, which I did. (Judge probably assumes, perhaps rightly, that she tore up and burned the physical copy).

Do be careful, my ex tried to take the kids and run across a border believing that would somehow punish me into taking her back in order to ransom the children back to me. I'm sure it's not the most common response, but it does happen...and it takes a long time to untangle.

[Goosey]

I understand your wanting to “explain” your reasons for filing. When have you been able to communicate on any matter?
 When have your thoughts been heard?
My experience is that mutual trust and respect is just not there.
  So any explanation falls on deaf ears.
    Your dread is not unjustified. Make sure you and the children are at safe location and just let it happen. It’s an unfortunate part of the process.
   

[GaGrl]

I recommend that you take the children elsewhere and let her deal with her reaction by herself. This won't be a safe situation for either you or the children.

Provide her a way to communicate about the children and legal matters, preferably by email. Do not respond to communications from her about any other topic. You are past needing to explain yourself to her.

Wherever you go while she is served, make sure any appearance by your STBX is handled safely. If she is raging, have the police remove her. Make sure you have the divorce petition on you at all times.

Where is your thinking now?

[Serenitywithin]

Thanks for all of your replies. I still feel super guilty because to her this is going to come completely out of left field she has even asked me in the last week to start a couples devotional with her?

So a lot of wanting to explain I think can even come in the form of a recorded phone call with her once she is serve and I am not home. THat seems like solid advice and MY bro inlaw  who is a retired cop now said the same thing. He had to divorce a pretty disordered person himself before marrying my sister.

I am thinking all either go to my moms where We can stay for the weekend if I can work this out to happen on Friday. My son who does nto know will have to gently  have the whole thing explained to him that the divorce is happeneing and hope he is not too mad by the whole thing.. I think he will understand some of it but he is close with his mom becasue she uses him in her manipulations to go on the attack of the girls sometimes.

They other reason I was thinking on Friday is  SO they dont have to go to school for the net few days. My wife works in the school district and is now a para in the ELL program so she works in all three of their building each and every day. My daughters are both afraid of the possible scene she might make for them at school .

I have as someone recommended thought about contacting the school to let them know this is coming down the pipe, but she works with one of the counselors everyday so, I dont know how that will go. My wife is fairly high functioning outside the home and alot of people there may have a hard time believing how she is at home. Her direct Boss the Special needs administrator for the school is actually a good friend of mine and he know some of the situation as we talked about it a little over a year ago but I am not sure he fully understood how bad it was impacting my girls at the time. I have thought about reaching out to him, but I also dont want to cause her problems in her current job as she will need it if I end up with sole custody and wont be required to pay any maintenance? I am not looking to screw her over or leave her with no place to go so causing an issue at work is also not what I want to do for her at all. 

MY two older daughters know I have filed and are also worried about Moms reaction. My son who is only a little over year younger than the second daughter, he is 11 has always been her golden boy, and never the target of her rage, yet he is manipulated all the time does know that she lies a  lot but he does not vocalize it or show any hatred towards her like the girls do.

My lawyer also said that  I can leave with the kids and that is not an issue but then when I take them back to school since she works there and they usually ride home with her, she could also jsut grab them and duck out earlier and take them with her to her Grandparents home , which is probably where she will end up =, but if she does that, My Lawyer said last resort we file a TPO to get a temp order from a judge with the help from a GAL and the girls current Counselor.  But that would keep her from being anywhere near the children and keep her from even being allowed to go to work which would then of course cause her to lose her job.. My hope is I can talk her into moving in with her family while the kids and I stay home, and allow her to come and visit each day after school so as not to cut her out completely  in the short term and make the process a little slower especially for the 3 year old.

[ForeverDad]

I still feel super guilty because to her this is going to come completely out of left field...

My daughters are both afraid of the possible scene she might make for them at school...

...but I also don't want to cause her problems in her current job as she will need it if I end up with sole custody and wont be required to pay any maintenance? I am not looking to screw her over or leave her with no place to go so causing an issue at work is also not what I want to do for her at all...

My Lawyer said last resort we file a TPO to get a temp order from a judge with the help from a GAL and the girls current Counselor.  But that would keep her from being anywhere near the children and keep her from even being allowed to go to work which would then of course cause her to lose her job...

STOP worrying or obsessing about her.  She's an adult, just like you.  The kids aren't.  Focus on the the minors who need a stable, reasonably normal parent.  Whatever the consequences for her behaviors are, the court will have a hand in the outcome without any need for you to defend her.

My bro-in-law who is a retired cop now...

Can you trust him to stand up for good behavior rather than side with a misbehaving sister?  Sounds like he would be a good resource for you?  If so, then he might be a good companion so you don't see her alone, especially early in the case when she's likely to act out or try to frame you in retaliation.

My two older daughters... are also worried about Moms reaction. My son... has always been her golden boy, and never the target of her rage, yet he is manipulated all the time does know that she lies a lot but he does not vocalize it or show any hatred towards her like the girls do.

"The walls have ears."  That fact has been mentioned here in the past.  The kids, even the golden kids, know something's wrong.  However, since he may be more easily manipulated by his mother you may need to limit what you share of your plans with him

In your filing have you listed that you want the court to authorize the children getting counseling?  Courts love counseling.  If there is a risk mother will want to choose a counselor — or claim she should be their counselor — then make sure you've got a list of vetted counselors that, if court wishes, she can choose from.  That way she is not in control nor has the ability to pick an inexperienced or gullible counselor.

A few decades ago the book Solomon's Children - Exploding the Myths of Divorce had an interesting observation on page 195 by one participant, As the saying goes, "I'd rather come from a broken home than live in one."  Ponder that.  Taking action, as appropriate, will enable your lives or at least a part of your lives to be spent be in a calm, stable environment - your home, wherever that may be — away from the blaming, emotional distortions, pressuring demands and manipulations, unpredictable ever-looming rages and outright chaos.

A few cautions... Court typically defaults to joint custody in final decrees unless the circumstances are extreme.  However, the temporary order could assign you the temporary custody role.  Work smart for that.  Be prepared that initial hearings are often brief, maybe only a half hour.  That's not much time to go into details but make sure your summary and supporting incidents focus on the important child related issues you need in your temp order.  (My then-spouse was arrested for Threat of DV in one court but while it was pending she went over to family court and got a mother's default preference in my county, temporary custody of our preschooler.  Evidently the Threat of DV was adult behavior and didn't impact her theoretical ability to parent?  I was gifted alternate weekends.  Doesn't make sense but that's how it went down.  Sometimes it feels like like a crap shoot how it will develop.)

I must repeat.  You're surely one of us Good Guys and Good Gals.  You want the "least bad" outcome.  We understand that perspective, it in our nature.  But reality requires a focused stance and firm boundaries to ensure at least minimal standards of behavior.  But if you care too much about her, you will be sabotaging yourself and your kids.  Don't be men or nasty, but you have to put your kids first.  Believe me, court will give her plenty of defense and deference without any encouragement from you.  Look out for yourself and the kids.

[DefiantRaspberry]

My lawyer also said that  I can leave with the kids and that is not an issue but then when I take them back to school since she works there and they usually ride home with her, she could also jsut grab them and duck out earlier and take them with her to her Grandparents home , which is probably where she will end up =, but if she does that, My Lawyer said last resort we file a TPO to get a temp order from a judge with the help from a GAL and the girls current Counselor.  But that would keep her from being anywhere near the children and keep her from even being allowed to go to work which would then of course cause her to lose her job.. My hope is I can talk her into moving in with her family while the kids and I stay home, and allow her to come and visit each day after school so as not to cut her out completely  in the short term and make the process a little slower especially for the 3 year old.

Did your lawyer say what the grounds would be for a TPO? Just curious, as I don't want to go down that road either but the last thing I need is H turning up at the kids' school or something...

[Serenitywithin]

DR

Emotional Abuse suffered at her hands, I have 3 years of pretty intense notes and video and audio recordings of the types of things she has done, along with kids counselors recommendation that mom gets supervised visits only. She works at the kids school though so if I have to do that, she will lose her job and not be able to even go there. I have not discussed it at length with the Lawyer yet though because I want that to be a last resort. I also want to try to keep the kids at our home with me  and even allow her to come by and see them after school each day if she is capable of being civil/// If that is not possible i am ready to do what needs to be done to protect my kids though.

[DefiantRaspberry]

DR

Emotional Abuse suffered at her hands, I have 3 years of pretty intense notes and video and audio recordings of the types of things she has done, along with kids counselors recommendation that mom gets supervised visits only. She works at the kids school though so if I have to do that, she will lose her job and not be able to even go there. I have not discussed it at length with the Lawyer yet though because I want that to be a last resort. I also want to try to keep the kids at our home with me  and even allow her to come by and see them after school each day if she is capable of being civil/// If that is not possible i am ready to do what needs to be done to protect my kids though.

Thanks. I wasn't sure what sort of things constituted a TPO or not...I don't want to go down that road either, but I will to protect myself/them.

[I Am Redeemed]

SR,

Have you discussed with the kids T the situation about mom working at the school and the possible fallout on the kids once she gets served?

I understand your reservations about the TPO and it compromising her job.

Can the T work with your kids to come up with a plan or steps to take if mom puts them in an inappropriate or uncomfortable situation at school?

Also...it's okay to feel guilty about this. Just don't let it stop you from moving forward to protect your kids (sounds like you are prepared to do this). She made choices that have harmed your kids (and her kids). They don't get to choose how to protect themselves. You do.

[Serenitywithin]

So now I am really Feeling Guilty. I have let the girls in on the divorce thing at the recommendation of their Therapist. Mom has been in a sulking mood with me lately and when she is she usually cobbs onto the kids and does the love bombing thing with them.

I had been telling the girls I was Going to talk to mom one last time before filing for divorce, and both of them kept telling me they did not think it would do any good because they did not think she would get help. I came to agree after the previous two weeks of dysregulation on moms part as she accused me of always gaslighting her, and accused me of being emotionally abusive and doing all of the things that she does on a regular basis.

I talked to the girls and let them know I had filed and was waiting on paperwork to come back before mom would get served the papers. My 12 year old  called my mom again scared in the middle of the night last night and told her she cant trust either one of us now? Mom was like you cant trust Daddy? Mom thinks it was because I have filed for divorce and D12 thought  I was going to have another talk with mom about trying to get some help as a next step. Then she told her grandma my mom that mommy has been trying  to bond a lot lately and she feels guilty because mom is wanting to take her to do things and wanting to buy her things. 

I really hate everything about this I think I may have to have a sit down with her to explain why another talk would not help? She understands soo much, but she is 12 and I hate she knows any of it but her mom would involve her in things so she knows everything.

I was feeling pretty good about having filed and waiting on the server until this morning.I also knew that the girls would still long for their mom and feel guilty about this as well, but they have both said even hatefully in the last week or two that no one had better make them live with her.


My head is reeling, this emotional rollercoaster is like one from your nightmares.

I know deep down I am doing the best thing, the FOG sucks and I feel it everyday.

[formflier]

Couple things.

1.  Has the kids counselor advised you on how much to disclose to the children?  If not...I would ask about that.

2.  I'm wondering if a note or proposal for temp custody orders can be sent with the divorce filing (serving). 

Basically, here is the divorce filing and here is how we can communicate about that (new email).  Here is a temp custody procedure recommended by kids therapists and here is how we can communicate about parenting issues (different email..maybe).  Please sign here.

No threat of if you don't sign we will...

But...make sure there is a pathway for her to choose that is "healthy".

Best,

FF

[Serenitywithin]

So with the STBX who has not been served her paperwork yet, she is love bombing the kids to the point of my D12 now telling her gma that mom is trying to bond with me and I feel bad. She always does this but it is usually in response her dysregulating and painting me black for a day or two. When this happens the kids get  hyper attentive mom during those days. She usually quits immediately after we have had sex and she perceives everything as good and right in the world.

Well this time I have not let her just reconcile by trying  to make everyone forget and forgive without hesitation and consider whatever the the past that wont be brought up again.

Makes me wonder if I should have went ahead and let her think we were reconciled so the kids were not getting love bombed to the point of questioning themselves on if mom is really that bad all the time.

Then this morning after not say much more than Hi and Bye to me for a little over a week now, she got out of the shower and covered her chest and acted super modest like she does when she is mad, Normally she walks around naked in the morning right in front of me... Anyway she is covering her chest with her arms while getting clothes out and then following me in to the bathroom when I get in the shower and says very seriously. Hey Tonight, and then paused, and then said can you make it a point to give me some, I really need some. then she turned around and started getting ready. Then a few minutes later she said because if you wont I might have to get some elsewhere.? I joked with her that it sure is nice a woman can do that anytime, all ya got to do is ask a few guys till one says sure.  She laughed..

A.) She almost never initiates Sex unless she is upset and even then it is always super subtle and I think she needs to think it was me initiating it so that she can do her whole al must be forgiven now routine.

B) She has not since Dating or shortly into the marriage 16 years ago, straight up came out and  asked me to make a point of giving her some.

Now to my Dilema! I am trying to keep up pretenses that everything is sort of OK out side of us being in a slight quarrel at the moment. SO do I allow this to happen tonight? I have not had sex with her since about a week before I made the final decision to file so it is going on 3 weeks now. Or If I do allow it to happen, afterwards when she  has gotten what she wanted to I start the conversation I have been wanting to have about how her behaviors effect and hurt the kids and I all of the time and while I still love her, Sex does not equal forgiveness of all.( obviously in a very Gentle way)

If I allow this to be an apology maybe she will quit love bombing the kids to the point of them feeling bad? At least if I say nothing afterwards... Problem is I have not heard form the special Process server to this point yet to schedule serving her, and I am not sure how long it will be until that happens. Currently since I have not been engaging in anything but super small talk with her the house is a bit like a pressure cooker.  I can tell the kids are feeling it because of her over niceness  towards them which makes them nervous because they are all waiting for the other shoe to drop.

I feel guilty about the filing having happened and her not even knowing about it , so I am sure if I give her what she wants tonight ( or rather needs to feel better) I will likely feel more guilty, but I almost feel like that would be better than what is going on now until the papers get served. That could be a week or so (no idea yet).

Once again all of this sucks.

[formflier]

Once again all of this sucks.

So...probably not my place to tell you to or not to have sex with your wife when she asks.

Here is what I will pose to you.  If she is at a place where she is going to be vulnerable and ask for intimacy...what she needs/wants...why not reciprocate and let her know what you want/need.

Best,

FF

[Serenitywithin]

Thanks FF I get that.

I would like to try to tell her what I need/ want but am not sure how to phrase the fact that I want  her to go and get help even though the marriage is over and I am just waiting for papers to be served?

Obviously I am a  Male and I have no problems with having sex, but I dont want to be a jerk by doing this while I know papers are pending being served. At the same time it may put her in a calm space for the next several days to a wee while waiting on the process server to come through.

This seems like a really wierd topic to be discussing. But I am generally worried about not being a jerk . I also dont want to tip anythign to her in making assumption that I dont want her/rejecting her?

She is already feeling this way because she approached a woman at church whom I was very close friends with before we got together over 16 yrs ago. I have not talked to this friend in that amount of time outside of polite hello and how's it going in passing coming in or out of church, but this EX-Friend of mine is divorce about three years now ... My wife has always hated her because she said since we were friends that she wanted to be with me back in the day... Thus why I gave up that close friendship when I got married. SHe approached her out of no where and started talking about having problems at home and then asking her if she is dating ... My old friend did not tell me about it, as I have not had an actual conversation with her in years , but she is good friends with my younger sister and told her about the awkward encounter and that it made her feel really wierd?

I am now waiting for the accusations of cheating or something else if I turn down sex, or when she finally gets served?

[formflier]

This isn't about sex, although that certainly is an interdependent issue.

It seems to be that both of you guys have trouble asking for what they want/need...speaking kindly set plainly.

So..what's the harm in attempting a conversation with her...about what you really want.  Especially since she really put herself out there.

Best,

FF

[PearlsBefore]

Anyway she is covering her chest with her arms while getting clothes out and then following me in to the bathroom when I get in the shower and says very seriously. Hey Tonight, and then paused, and then said can you make it a point to give me some, I really need some. then she turned around and started getting ready. Then a few minutes later she said because if you wont I might have to get some elsewhere.?

She almost never initiates Sex unless she is upset and even then it is always super subtle and I think she needs to think it was me initiating it so that she can do her whole 'all must be forgiven now' routine.

A) I'd say it sounds more like she's doing what I consider classic-BPD based on my own experience - she'll try to make you jealous to reinforce in her mind that you love her. Who the hell ever utters the line "I thought it would be like in the movies, that having an affair would make you realise how much you loved me and respected me after all"?  Yeah, only a dBPD says that kind of craziness. She later made a point of sending me a copy of her asking a professional for advice on a similar topic again years later...I can only imagine the professional's startled bewilderment; but presumably she thought it would awaken some dormant jealousy or passion to learn about her half-hearted efforts to have the world's least interesting affair. Welcome to BPD.

B) I've been there and I'll be less shy than others about offering my advice; she often needed/wanted sex when she didn't want to take her meds or something to calm her down - she found it calming I guess. Probably a combination of emotional "I am loved" along with her physical present-time fixation and hedonism. So I figured it can't hurt - she knew I was intending to divorce her, but she considered this calming and maybe she figured she could change my mind with enough bedroom attention (didn't work). Sometimes she'd even argue it wasn't fair that I was scheduling the divorce without letting her "try" otherwise - so the only kind and just thing I could do was indulge her.

Anyways, by the time we landed in front of a Chicago judge and I was being asked when we last had sex, I was honest - which included explaining that I had offered it on a specific occasion she later claimed was harassment/assault and I was left fumbling trying to explain to the judge that she (like other pwBPDs) often calms down if she gets some and I'd only offered it and we both agreed nothing actually happened that night. The judge ultimately seemed to believe me that this was "normal" in our very abnormal relationship, but it was definitely not worth the stress and risk that I'd pulled a less-comprehending judge. If I could go back in time, I would've just told her I had a headache (or said some low-level depression or stress was causing me to be unreceptive these days and I'd prefer boardgames, etc).

Basically it sounds like a lot of projection on her part, I'd guess she DOES know what's coming and is playing dumb hoping to convince you to keep her. I'll admit I have that dark-humour at the idea of her shyly pretending to be some virgin who covers herself in front of you after years of brazen nudity (yeah, I needed to make a rule in our house that we were not a nudist camp b/c she was waaaaay too comfortable with the children, not sex or anything, just that "Oh look I shaved, does it look good?" or tearing off her clothes to demonstrate how upset she is by something, or commenting on the children's erections, discussing her sex with their father, the sort of stuff that leaves the husband wondering how to enforce rules without having their spouse arrested or branded vile.). So she remembers she first won your heart in her more shy, modest days - and it's all she knows how to do, so with only days remaining until the divorce drops...suddenly she turns up the feminine wiles and tries to make you desire her or feel jealousy rather than pity for her.

Sounds like you're the good guy, but obviously you're going to be branded the bad guy. Just be ready for it - and know we're here for you if/when it happens.

[Serenitywithin]

Thanks Pearls Before!

I appreciate your openess in the subject. I was thinking same thing i will be super tired tonight. 
I have done that in the past as well when I am very upset after a rage or something and she turns it on even harder. Like I cna pretend to go to sleep and she will grab me and do things anyway until I am physically unable to tell her I am too tired or such.. I am going to have to be stern in my derailment of that plan tonight and hold my ground, but I cna see her throwing a fit over it.

[formflier]

Wouldn't it be better to be proactive...rather than stern after she starts something?

Best,

FF

[GaGrl]

She's going to throw a fit over multiple issues over the next several weeks. You can't avoid or alleviate her reactions.

[PearlsBefore]

Thanks Pearls Before!

I appreciate your openess in the subject. I was thinking same thing i will be super tired tonight.  
I have done that in the past as well when I am very upset after a rage or something and she turns it on even harder. Like I cna pretend to go to sleep and she will grab me and do things anyway until I am physically unable to tell her I am too tired or such.. I am going to have to be stern in my derailment of that plan tonight and hold my ground, but I cna see her throwing a fit over it.

a) Yeah, there's a lot of that "I'm pretty sure this would be labelled rape if the situations were reversed" that happens in pwBPD relationships - it's the neediness combined with the refusal to back down.

b) Final thought as night approaches, have you considered just telling her that you're concerned with her snacking because those pants make her look fat, or some silly thing? I'm serious, if not quite exactly that tactic, but you could try something similar that will cause her to be a snit and "cancel" the sex she had planned for tonight. If she takes off her top anyways, comment that you've never seen a pair of breasts nicer than [some ex-girlfriend]...that should get you out of there right quick :P But as I said, I had sex with her in those final days at her request...but she later tried to re-frame them as harassment and abuse as though she hadn't been the initiating party. Ultimately, "sparing her feelings and letting her feel good" wasn't worth the months of headache and lawyer's bills it caused me - and it didn't do her any good either since she just poisoned it as soon as she had the chance. Very short-term solution.

As GaGrl says, if it comes down to it, just put your foot down and say you don't want to and you'll sleep on the couch if necessary - she's going to be plenty upset a week from now and will quickly forget about this slight injured pride. It's what I should have done.

[Goosey]

Double edged sword.
Have sex. “You just use me for sex” “treat me like a whore”
Don’t have sex. “Your f...someone else. Your a scum bag “.
  Just another thing that twists you up.
God help them.

[DefiantRaspberry]

Double edged sword.
Have sex. “You just use me for sex” “treat me like a whore”
Don’t have sex. “Your f...someone else. Your a scum bag “.
  Just another thing that twists you up.
God help them.

oof. this is nearly daily life with my pwBPD...

[Goosey]

Ya and this is me posting after a year plus no physical contact.
Warning to all. If you give they will take.
All of it.
I’m almost depleted haha maybe I can get some peace.

[Goosey]

Oh I meant financially haha.
But I guess the year plus thing made that clear.
After the sex thing it hammers down on constant financial crisis.
  And no doubt whatever problem you ever convey they will double down with terminal cancer.
  But they are still there a few weeks later spewing venom.
 Gotta admire their tenacity and admonish my repeated empathy.
 I need that part removed but not sure it’s covered on my insurance.
If I could have it removed I could more easily for my insurance haha