Leaving as they're finally improving?

[lateappointment]

Hi! I've been conflicted about leaving or staying in a relationship. Curious to hear from people who went through something similar.

My partner used to rage and be abusive at times: insults or degrading comments, screaming, throwing objects, physically wrestling or hitting me. The trigger usually looked like fear of abandonment, for instance anything to do with an ex or female friend, meeting friends without her, people getting married (no proposal yet = I don't love her), etc. She's not diagnosed BPD, but she has traits.

This lasted around 1.5 year of ups and downs, and me mostly caving in when she put enough pressure. Finally it became too much and I started to read a lot, rebuild a bit of self-esteem and a support network, start to put some boundaries. At the end of summer things escalated (I wrote a long comment here back then) and I finally discussed breaking up. For the first time she recognized abusive behaviours she'd done, apologized, cried a lot, and promised to work on it if we stay together.

The thing that makes me feel really confused is... she's held her promise. She's still very suspicious of any woman around me, and it causes long drawn-out discussions where she asks me to reassure her that nothing is happening etc., but she stays mostly respectful, and she accepts that I won't discuss these issues at 2AM anymore. It used to be that most days were terrible, but now most days are OK and we sometimes laugh or enjoy stuff together. She hasn't gone to therapy, or read a book or anything. She just says she "stopped having expectations" and that's why she's not pressuring for marriage anymore.

I think COVID lockdown helped, because I'm always at home and a lot of the triggers are gone, but I do think she also got a bit more mature.

So now I'm in a weird limbo. I still really feel the pain and shame of all the stuff that happened, and I can't believe I stayed through that, and yet she isn't doing anything crazy anymore, so it's like I have no great reason to leave. The correct decision felt obvious (if difficult to execute) when the relationship was abusive, but now... I don't know. Overall, I still feel like I want to leave, but I'm not sure if it's just a "leftover" from the abuse that will heal with time, or if it reflects a real difference in values. It feels like a waste to leave as things are finally starting to look better.

I've been trying to project myself in the future, list why I'm afraid to stay or leave, write down my values, etc. Still having a really hard time turning this into concrete action.

Have other people been through this? Did something in particular help you make your decision?

[mstnghu]

Lateappointment, I'm kinda in the same boat as you. My wife and I are currently separated and I've been living at my parents' house for about three months now. I still see my wife a few days out of the week because I go over to visit with my son and dog also.

It's been really hard lately to process how I should go about the situation because I feel like I'm in limbo. My wife also has "improved" quite a bit recently. She's even been able to apologize for many of the nasty things that she's said and done to me over the years. It's causing me to feel conflicted. I feel like I checked out of the relationship a long time ago and now am second guessing myself. It's really hard for me to believe that she's truly changed and even if she has, right now I don't have any motivation to work on our relationship anymore.

I'm sorry I can't really offer any real advice because I'm also feeling confused at the moment. At least you can know you're not alone in your feelings though.

[Bravebluebird]

Hi Lateappointment,

Here are a few of the phrases that stood out for me in your post:

"I still really feel the pain and shame... overall I have no great reason to leave."
"Overall, I still feel like I want to leave..."
"...having a really hard time turning this into concrete action."

You also mentioned things used to be "terrible" but are "ok" now.  Are "ok" days ok with you?  Do you feel like you have to have a "great reason" to leave?  Has your journaling or pro's/con's list allowed you to determine whether your emotional/relational needs are being met?  Reading between the lines... do you have a sense that things have been a tad better since you're home all the time together and that perhaps they won't be so easy once life goes back to "normal"?  Is the issue that you're really not sure whether you want to go, or that you're not sure how to do so with grace and respect?

Either way, there's a Daily Om course I found recently that might help a bit on making this kind of decision.  Hope it's ok to post it here.
https://www.dailyom.com/cgi-bin/courses/courseoverview.cgi?cid=994
 

[once removed]

dont stay in "its...better, i think?"

if your partner hasnt performed a 180, youre going to have, to greater or lesser extents, the same struggles (because loving a highly sensitive person is always a struggle).

but if you are not working to actively improve your relationship skills, the same is true.

you love a jealous person. is the solution to improving the relationship simply her stifling her jealousy, or developing skills around what it takes to love a jealous person, or both?

theres a school of thought that, especially the older we get, couples ideally should only have "couples friends". that is, if youre going to meet and have female friends, that female is part of a couple, and all four of you are friends and actively do things together.

personally i dont actively oppose that thinking. i think its a healthy ideal. social life ought to mostly consist of/with your romantic partner. some of that shared amongst friends, and some of it a guys night out or a girls night out. at the same time, im not a believer in cutting out friends of the opposite sex, or the same sex, except when they have crossed your partners reasonably appropriate lines. if i consider it unreasonable, controlling, insatiable, we have a fundamental problem that is going to break us up.

but your relationship is not about my thoughts. its about trying to meet in the middle with the person you love, and you each have a different belief system.

for the most part, without forcing it, id be trying to make the two women in the equation friends, or at the very least, comfortable around each other, more than id be insisting on hanging out with either one of them. i would be creating and giving the space for my romantic partner to become comfortable with the people of the opposite sex in my life.

between the lines, your partner is asking for reassurance. people with bpd traits need a lot of it. you dont want to go down the rabbit hole for 8 hours like my ex and i did, but you love a jealous person, and if youre going to make this work, youre going to need to do the work. it can help to fully disclose beforehand, even more than during or after, and to check in during.

[MeandThee29]

It's been really hard lately to process how I should go about the situation because I feel like I'm in limbo. My wife also has "improved" quite a bit recently. She's even been able to apologize for many of the nasty things that she's said and done to me over the years. It's causing me to feel conflicted. I feel like I checked out of the relationship a long time ago and now am second guessing myself. It's really hard for me to believe that she's truly changed and even if she has, right now I don't have any motivation to work on our relationship anymore.

FWIW, it's very common for couples in serious conflict to get "better" when they are apart. When they aren't around each other and the emotions are more even, short interactions will indeed go better. However, unless the deep belief and patterns aren't addressed, being around each other for longer periods of time isn't going to go well.

Someone warned me about this when we separated, and I didn't quite believe it. I saw it over-and-over though. One good interaction would be followed by a blow-up if we went deeper. If we spent more than a very brief amount of time together, it would go completely down the toilet. He would say outrageous things that he'd later completely deny and say that I made up.

Gosh, I'm glad that I'm beyond that.

[ForeverDad]

Another consideration could be that she's making a special effort to behave better recently.  However, once you return, if you ponder doing so, isn't there a risk she would relax and slide back into past behaviors?

We're not saying she can't be making real progress but real recovery typically takes guidance (meaningful therapy) and time (many months, probably longer) to be credible.

A question... Have you previously tried leaving or setting limits, she backed off, yet still it ended up returning to past discord?

[DefiantRaspberry]

Either way, there's a Daily Om course I found recently that might help a bit on making this kind of decision.  Hope it's ok to post it here.
https://www.dailyom.com/cgi-bin/courses/courseoverview.cgi?cid=994

Have you tried the course, Bravebluebird? Looks really interesting.

[tvda]

LateAppointment,

Why not:
1) Give it time. Things are bound to either get better, or return to 'problematic'. Either way, that should confirm what you should or want to do.

2) Write down what your boundaries are, and under which conditions you will end things. Don't underestimate your own trauma-bond and misplaced loyalty to her. Keep this note and be true to yourself about this.

3) This might be painful to hear, but do realise that she did not do the work to improve out of her own volition, just because she wanted to treat you better. She only did it once you left, and thus only for the selfish reason of 'keeping' you. When she still had you, she did not do this 'to make you happy'. That should tell you something.

[Jeronimo]

Hi,

I've been there. I was stuck in the roller coaster for a while until I came across the concept of intermittent reinforcement.  It's the same reason people sit at a slot machine for hours because they occasionally get a win.  My STBX, also not officially diagnosed, was able to show a great amount of remorse and self reflection that I thought we were over the hump.  Until the next dip.  From everything I've read and come across, she will need more than just a desire to behave better, she will need a lot of time and therapy.  She is programmed to self-sabotage.

[tvda]

Yup, intermittent reinforcement and learned helplessness.

Do you know about the experiment with the dogs in the cages?

In the first cage, dogs got an electric shock when they pressed a lever.

In the second cage, the result was random: sometimes they were shocked, sometimes they got food.

In the third cage, the dogs got food when they pressed the lever.

After a couple of weeks the cages were opened. The dogs in cage 1 and 3 escaped right away. The dogs in the second cages just laid on the floor and didn't escape, even with the door open.

The theory is that these dogs, through the randomness of reactions to their own actions, had learned that they were powerless. Whatever they did, it made no sense. There was no connection to their own intentions and the results anymore. They felt powerless, helpless and unable to escape, even with the door wide open now.

Sometimes I think a lot of us with BPD partners or exes are in this situation, after years of totally confusing, random and chaotic reactions. We've learned that we are in essence powerless, that nothing we do makes a difference, and as a result we just stay in our cages, lying on the floor in a sort of numb depression.