kids complaining about weekend schedule

[kells76]

SD15 has a sort of $$$ & time-intensive interest (think along the lines of scuba diving, horses, etc etc etc). We aren't rich but because it's a wholesome interest that has some good long-term career potential, good skill-building, gets her out of Mom's house and away from more toxic/mainstream interests, DH and I try to be very supportive (from the "formflier school of wallet-opening" ). Ideally she'd be doing it weekly but we can swing it every 2-3 months or so. Again, always on our weekends together, haven't heard anything from Mom about also trying to support.

We'd scheduled a time for two weekends ago, but it was with a different instructor than her usual, so we took SD15's feedback into account and cancelled and rescheduled for this Saturday. I gave her a heads up Monday about the plan, got her feedback about making it overnight vs 1 day trip (it's out of town), incorporated feedback, etc. She sounded really stoked, didn't say anything about any issues.

So last night we were reminding SD15 about this Saturday: "Hey, lesson is at X time, then we'll get dinner with Family and head back home". That's when she and SD13 were like "So Mom and Stepdad are going to visit our grandparents this weekend, AND are going to see our close friend's once-in-a-lifetime ceremony out of town, AND are going to take the amazing rental SUV [they had another car crash, apparently?] for a fun trip... I can't believe it's this weekend, and we haven't seen Grandparents in like 4 years" -- this is this weekend, the weekend we're together.

 

You know what I wanted to say? "I believe your mom is a smart and capable person, and I'm 110% sure that if she wants to make a schedule change, she'll reach out".

What I actually said: "Yes, it has been a long time since you've seen Grandparents... I hope Mom schedules another trip where you can go".

Kids said: "Probably not, because it's like a 6 hour drive".

Me: "Ugh, yes it is a long drive".

...

Kids are 13 & 15 now, more like 13.5 & 15.5.

Should we have been more assertive and open about "If Mom wants you to go, she will reach out to trade", given their ages?

Or is it still appropriate to just empathize and then not touch it?

Kids didn't do any protest behavior/statements ("I just won't come over this weekend") yesterday, but I'm kind of dreading tomorrow. No idea what kinds of passive-aggressive stuff Mom is doing between yesterday and tomorrow.

...

I think I smell a setup or a triangle, where there is some reason Mom doesn't want the kids on the trip, but doesn't want to own it, and so is trying to position "DH and DH's weekend" as the villain.

I wonder if the kids were also working a triangle -- wanting DH to rescue them, the victims, from the villainous schedule.

There's also the issue that apparently this info came out between Monday and yesterday, but no info from Mom about wanting a trade. And the ceremony thing for one of their close friends isn't a "spontaneous let's just schedule it for a week from now" thing; I'd suspect it's a months in advance type schedule. So, I have a feeling this has been on Mom's radar for a while.

...

If the kids do bring it up tomorrow, one response I'm thinking of is "I'm not a mind reader... it's certainly possible that Mom has some reason for you to not go on the trip. Christmas shopping, some other surprise? It's not something we could possibly know unless she reaches out with info. Have you let her know how you feel?"

...

Overall, I'm pretty disgusted that Mom & Stepdad would tell the kids all these fun plans they had for OUR weekend. That's cruel.

[Notwendy]

They just can't seem to help not create issues don't they?  

It might be that they don't want to see you two get any "brownie points" for financing D 15's activity?

Whatever the issue is, it's your weekend. It's their responsibility to negotiate the schedule. If they continue to sabotage your weekends, consider not letting them know when D15 has a lesson. Just let her know it will be on your times sometimes when she's there.

I think they might be trying to sabotage this so you and your H don't get to be the good guys.

Also gage her interest. I also am willing to pay (what we can afford) for things like music lessons, sports equipment, but by the teen age years, the child also has to be invested in the activity. I didn't want to be nagging them to practice, or keep track of their sports gear. They had to also be motivated to do that. Sometimes this did mean not getting to do something fun because they had a lesson, or a game, or a practice. If D15 starts to resent the activity due to wanting to do something else, or her BPD mother "ruins" her interest, don't keep paying for it. The agreement is between you and D15- you will finance this activity but she needs to also be invested in it.

As much as you and your H have done to mitigate the issues of having a BPD parent- there's only so much you can do. I think you have done a lot. It may feel hurtful to be the ones she might resent now but as she gets older, her perspective may change. Most teens don't show a lot of perception or appreciation of what parents do for them. They are in their own worlds. All you can do is the best you can with this, and you are doing a lot.

[zachira]

A hard lesson that I am still learning is not to give any more information than necessary to high conflict people or to people who will share information with them. The less your stepchildren's mother knows about what is going on when you have the children, the easier it will likely be for you. The children's mother views what she learns about what is going on at your home, as an opportunity to cause conflict and division.

[herbivorestepmom]

I second what zachira said -- the less the mother knows, the better. Every time we have ever given my H's ex some information, she uses it against us somehow or goes out of her way to ruin a surprise.

This is a hard situation though, because your stepkids are older and they can voice their opinions and wants. But yes, it is not up to them to change the weekends. Their mom is an adult and if she wants to change the schedule, she needs to reach out.

It sounds like she's trying convince her own kids that they can also be "fun."

Let us know how it went. I hope everything works out with as little drama as possible.

[formflier]

Welll...I'm curious about more details on the activity...sounds interesting.

Ugg..double and triple ugg.

Remind yourself of the big picture...it's your job to empathize and connect with your kids...not to be a bulldozer parent solving all their problems.  "missing out" is one of life's things you have to learn to accept.

Probably good to explicitly remind your kids that it's not their job to  negotiate the schedule/trades/ etc etc.  That's the adults job.  (I wouldn't force this point...but be ready if the discussion comes up.

Also...maybe practice this "question".  "I wonder why they scheduled that when they knew you guys aren't available?"

Plant seeds of questions if the opportunity arises.  Maybe someday they see bigger picture..maybe not.  You job is "seed planting" with empathy.

maybe "Gosh...that sure sounds like a lot of fund.  I hate that you are missing out...I wonder why they would schedule it when you are not available?".

Most likely this will turn out to be a nothgingburger...but good to think through possibilities ahead of time.  High conflict people tend to be good at "curveballs".

Best,

FF

[kells76]

They just can't seem to help not create issues don't they?   

It might be that they don't want to see you two get any "brownie points" for financing D 15's activity?

Whatever the issue is, it's your weekend. It's their responsibility to negotiate the schedule. If they continue to sabotage your weekends, consider not letting them know when D15 has a lesson. Just let her know it will be on your times sometimes when she's there.

I think they might be trying to sabotage this so you and your H don't get to be the good guys.

That didn't click until reading the replies here. Yeah, seems likely.

Also gage her interest. I also am willing to pay (what we can afford) for things like music lessons, sports equipment, but by the teen age years, the child also has to be invested in the activity. I didn't want to be nagging them to practice, or keep track of their sports gear. They had to also be motivated to do that. Sometimes this did mean not getting to do something fun because they had a lesson, or a game, or a practice. If D15 starts to resent the activity due to wanting to do something else, or her BPD mother "ruins" her interest, don't keep paying for it. The agreement is between you and D15- you will finance this activity but she needs to also be invested in it.

Fortunately she's at 110% and also willing to pick up side jobs to finance more lessons. It makes sense to let her "take the wheel" on interest level/motivation -- anything above the every 2-3 months, and she needs to have some skin in the game. And yeah, it also makes sense that if for some reason her interest gets "tainted" by messaging from Mom... well, she's at an age where that's her decision to navigate. It wouldn't be DH and I saying "you can't go", it'd be her choosing for herself  because of pressure, and that'd be her issue to untangle down the road.

As much as you and your H have done to mitigate the issues of having a BPD parent- there's only so much you can do. I think you have done a lot. It may feel hurtful to be the ones she might resent now but as she gets older, her perspective may change. Most teens don't show a lot of perception or appreciation of what parents do for them. They are in their own worlds. All you can do is the best you can with this, and you are doing a lot.

Thank you. Part of me is fine that the kids don't say "thank you soo much" because like you said, that's part of being a teen -- being very "into themselves" and not having perspective. It's the manipulations from Mom/Stepdad that still bug me. I think it's like being exposed to a "sensitizing" chemical over time, like poison oak or something -- at first, it's not that bad, and you can deal with it each time, but the more it intrudes in your life, the more toxic it gets. My threshold for their behavior is just really low right now, I guess.

[kells76]

A hard lesson that I am still learning is not to give any more information than necessary to high conflict people or to people who will share information with them. The less your stepchildren's mother knows about what is going on when you have the children, the easier it will likely be for you. The children's mother views what she learns about what is going on at your home, as an opportunity to cause conflict and division.

And I guess I learned that SD15 may have told Mom/Stepdad about the lesson, even though DH and I didn't. Not sure yet how to navigate that... other than schedule it ahead of time, don't tell SD15, tell her on our weekend a day or two before? Yeah, maybe just tell her in general terms "it'll be some Saturday in January, not sure yet, depends what they have available, let me know if you don't want it to be a Saturday". Something where Mom is less likely to try to compete/overschedule.

[kells76]

I second what zachira said -- the less the mother knows, the better. Every time we have ever given my H's ex some information, she uses it against us somehow or goes out of her way to ruin a surprise.

This is a hard situation though, because your stepkids are older and they can voice their opinions and wants. But yes, it is not up to them to change the weekends. Their mom is an adult and if she wants to change the schedule, she needs to reach out.

It sounds like she's trying convince her own kids that they can also be "fun."

Let us know how it went. I hope everything works out with as little drama as possible.

It went alright. The kids didn't bring up "Mom and Stepdad's fun amazing plans" at all. I sort of wonder now if any of it even happened? They are "famous" for being very sure they will do something amazing for the kids, and then not following through. So, who knows. I don't really want to ask.

I'm doing OK. It's been a hard year, and like I replied to notwendy, even though my experience with Mom/Stepdad has gone up, my tolerance for what they do, and how it affects me, has gone down. Smaller, routine antics are impacting me pretty hard. I'm just tired.

[kells76]

Welll...I'm curious about more details on the activity...sounds interesting.

Flying small aircraft has been a dream of hers for years -- she reads books about historical small planes, draws them, watches movies with beautiful small planes, wants to run a courier service... doesn't want to join the AF or do commercial, just small stuff. She is learning in a Cessna (172M maybe? I'm VERY not the expert). DH went up with her and the instructor last time, and I went up on Saturday, where she was practicing 20 degree banked turns for the first time. Super proud of her. Glad the instructor is chill and mellow.

She doesn't want to learn how to drive, though, interestingly. We're fine with that as long as she'll fly us around when she's older  

Probably good to explicitly remind your kids that it's not their job to  negotiate the schedule/trades/ etc etc.  That's the adults job.  (I wouldn't force this point...but be ready if the discussion comes up.

It's tricky because of how DH has chosen to navigate scheduling. If the kids are insistent (which is less frequent now than earlier) about going back to Mom's, he will often take them back. I get why he has done it this way, as Mom does not see the parenting plan as real or pertinent (unless it gives less time to DH and benefits her), tells the kids "they always have a choice" about where they spend time, does not support DH's scheduling decisions, doesn't present a united front with him about "the parents decide for the kids", and abdicates a lot of parenting authority/doesn't want to be "the bad guy" deciding anything for the kids.

It's still incredibly frustrating and demoralizing. It's also hard because the kids are getting older and more independently mobile, and we only live ~3/4 mile from Mom's. SD15 is trying some more independence -- there are some days where DH, I, and SD13 all have an activity at the same time, so SD15 hangs out at Moms for those ~2 hours. DH and I don't fight that one and try to keep it low-key, more like "Did you wear your helmet when you biked over there", and give her a chore at our house to do before she goes over. She occasionally drops by our house on Mom's time, so it does go both ways.

Also...maybe practice this "question".  "I wonder why they scheduled that when they knew you guys aren't available?"

Anyway... yeah, putting that responsibility back on Mom is the key to all this, I think, and doing it in a way that "sticks". My fear is/was that what Mom would then do is her usual move of "I can't believe your dad is so insensitive... you TOLD him you wanted to go, and he didn't do ANYTHING for you. Unbelievable. I wanted you to come, but now it's too late, because Dad didn't help." And I don't want to get dragged into JADEing with the kids, like "Actually, Mom is wrong, and it's not Dad's fault, she should have reached out", because as true as all that is, the kids would feel ignored and hurt, which would "prove" Mom's point. That's the double bind -- when you point out Mom is the source of the problems, the kids feel like how they feel isn't important, and they feel that because of something Dad is saying, ergo Mom is correct.

High conflict people tend to be good at "curveballs".

That's exactly it -- and I think my patience and energy for coping with it is pretty eroded. So I just kind of shut down and don't engage. Which sort of works, in the sense that I don't JADE the kids about it, but I also was just so wary of "cracking the door" for conflict with even innocuous questions like "I wonder why they would tell you about that if they didn't reach out to reschedule with Dad".

Most likely this will turn out to be a nothgingburger.

Seems like that's how it went. Maybe the bigger issue is my exhaustion with even "small" and "expected" drama like that. We've been married 8+ years and together 10+. We're almost on the home stretch of parenting/stepparenting but it's still in the "years" not "months" range. I think I'm struggling with how to hang on for the tail end.

[formflier]

It's very common for kids to learn to fly and skip driving until they are 18.  Many parents use the savings in car insurance and put that towards flying.

Please let us know when she does first solo! 

Best,

FF

[zaqsert]

Maybe the bigger issue is my exhaustion with even "small" and "expected" drama like that. We've been married 8+ years and together 10+. We're almost on the home stretch of parenting/stepparenting but it's still in the "years" not "months" range. I think I'm struggling with how to hang on for the tail end.

kells76, it is exhausting to deal with pwBPD. I'm sorry you're struggling with how to hang on for the tail end. 

I know you know this since you share insights and advice with the rest of us so often. But a friendly reminder in case it helps: remember to spend some time on you and keep some focus on what you need for yourself, for your own sanity. That can help keep you grounded, focused on the end goal, and help make the curveballs easier to manage. What do you enjoy for yourself? What helps you?

As to flying, what an amazing experience for SD15! Great confidence builder too.

Ah, I miss flying. I'm with FF, please do let us know when she flies her first solo!

[CoherentMoose]

Yes! Let us know when she solos.  So cool to hear about so much passion in such a young person.  Huzza!  A little renfest lingo there... 

You are in the grind years and it's ops normal for patience to wear thin, even with normal relationships.  Allow yourself some grace please.  Firmly attach your mask, enjoy some self care, and continue plodding on.  One step, one day, one crazy event at a time.  It will change significantly at some point when the children mature and leave home. 

Be well.  CoMo