"There Is No Kindness In You" - Wife Wants Separation

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello, everyone.

My wife and I have been together for 17 years and originally she told me that she was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. I believed something was wrong - even when dating she would go into emotional swings that seemed far worse than anything I could comprehend. I stood by this diagnosis for years but realized that something seemed off when I read the signs and symptoms of bipolar. For instance, she would have "manic" phases but not to the severity that I read about, nor the frequency. Plus, bipolar seemed to be cyclical whereas my wife seemed to be set off about minor infractions that turned into massive arguments. After reading comments on here, I believe she instead has borderline personality disorder. She feeds off of control and she guilt trips everyone. She starts fights over the smallest details and erupts disproportionately to the situation. She has horrible self-esteem but still thinks she is all that. She's never maintained healthy relationships in her life, including our own. It's such a strange, Jekyll and Hyde thing with her ... 

We got into a large argument two nights ago. Essentially, the catalyst was intimacy. She tried starting an argument beforehand and then told me "let's not make this take all night". So I began rushing things and she got mad and said that I was "treating her like a piece of meat". She wanted to talk about it and began to go on a tangent about things that simply were not true (and I had the evidence to counter it), but I know where this is coming from. It's not the normal her that I usually have with me. It's this borderline personality her that shows up and argues based on emotion with no examples to support the claims. I chose to go to sleep and ignore it, which led to her suggesting that "there is no kindness in you".

I woke up and did not make her coffee this morning and will not make her coffee. I typically do this for her everyday. Why should I be kind if it is not only ignored, but I am told the complete opposite? I typically would offer to carry things for her to the car and open doors for her. Kindness. But apparently I have no kindness. I am sure she will tell me that I am being cold, now, and “not the man that she knows.” How can I be so unkind and uncaring now if I showed no kindness before? Wouldn’t there be no change? She makes no sense when she is like this and I wish she’d get help. Yesterday she had those dead, glassy eyes that I’ve seen a hundred times before. That thousand yard look like nobody is there. It’s wild - her entire face changes when she becomes this person. In the past, she says I’m making her sound nuts but if that is how it sounds to her, I don’t know what to tell her; I’m only relating what I’m seeing.

There’s no reasoning with her when she becomes this way. I noticed the shift well over a week ago. Prior to that we were having a lot more sex and were very close. She said as much. She initiated on more than one occasion. Now she tells me that she hasn’t had an orgasm in forever and only has sex as a to-do check list item. See the contradiction, again? She would probably suggest that we weren’t having sex as much as I’m saying (but we were - I know. We had it five days straight one weekend just a few weeks ago). Or she’ll switch the conversation and say that it was the same old boring sex. Or she’ll start going off on some thing else.

She pivots like crazy and whenever I bring up anything to counter her claims, she says I’m either “throwing it in her face” or “holding it over her”. The second one makes no sense at all. I’m only doing that if I’m gaining something from her. And what do I gain from her, as a wife? She doesn’t cuddle me, kiss me, hug me, approach me, compliment me, encourage me, or anything else, really. She does ask me how things are going each day, and we do have spurts of sex, as mentioned above, but that well dries up quick and somehow I am always to blame for that. As for her first statement, that I am “throwing it in her face” - how am I ever supposed to counter her statements with proof that she is wrong? In her mind I’m supposed to just sit there and take a verbal pummeling about things that I have recent evidence of having done. As if I do kind things only so that I can pounce on her in these arguments! How twisted is that thinking?

So she wants to separate again and frankly I’m tired of this crap every couple of months. Again, she said that “lately when we get into arguments I become so cold and distant”. As I said, I must not usually be that way in order for it to be noticeable, but more importantly, I know where these arguments lead. It’s always the same thing. Here are the dozen things I do wrong and how I need to be more (insert one of my many supposed faults that would somehow make her be more affectionate/loving/sexual/blah blah blah; as if she has no control over herself). Yawn.

I have so much to say and so many stories that if I don't quit, I'm going to start rambling and sound like I'm on a tangent. It's just hard to get across my story without being lengthy. I'm just tired of walking on eggshells and being a neutered man, trying to keep the beast at bay. I know that this method only makes it worse. I don't want to lose her. I love her. But if she wants to go, then maybe I should just show her the door.

[Firewater-Oil]

Hello, everyone.

My wife and I have been together for 17 years and originally she told me that she was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. I believed something was wrong - even when dating she would go into emotional swings that seemed far worse than anything I could comprehend. I stood by this diagnosis for years but realized that something seemed off when I read the signs and symptoms of bipolar. For instance, she would have "manic" phases but not to the severity that I read about, nor the frequency. Plus, bipolar seemed to be cyclical whereas my wife seemed to be set off about minor infractions that turned into massive arguments. After reading comments on here, I believe she instead has borderline personality disorder. She feeds off of control and she guilt trips everyone. She starts fights over the smallest details and erupts disproportionately to the situation. She has horrible self-esteem but still thinks she is all that. She's never maintained healthy relationships in her life, including our own. It's such a strange, Jekyll and Hyde thing with her ... 

We got into a large argument two nights ago. Essentially, the catalyst was intimacy. She tried starting an argument beforehand and then told me "let's not make this take all night". So I began rushing things and she got mad and said that I was "treating her like a piece of meat". She wanted to talk about it and began to go on a tangent about things that simply were not true (and I had the evidence to counter it), but I know where this is coming from. It's not the normal her that I usually have with me. It's this borderline personality her that shows up and argues based on emotion with no examples to support the claims. I chose to go to sleep and ignore it, which led to her suggesting that "there is no kindness in you".

I woke up and did not make her coffee this morning and will not make her coffee. I typically do this for her everyday. Why should I be kind if it is not only ignored, but I am told the complete opposite? I typically would offer to carry things for her to the car and open doors for her. Kindness. But apparently I have no kindness. I am sure she will tell me that I am being cold, now, and “not the man that she knows.” How can I be so unkind and uncaring now if I showed no kindness before? Wouldn’t there be no change? She makes no sense when she is like this and I wish she’d get help. Yesterday she had those dead, glassy eyes that I’ve seen a hundred times before. That thousand yard look like nobody is there. It’s wild - her entire face changes when she becomes this person. In the past, she says I’m making her sound nuts but if that is how it sounds to her, I don’t know what to tell her; I’m only relating what I’m seeing.

There’s no reasoning with her when she becomes this way. I noticed the shift well over a week ago. Prior to that we were having a lot more sex and were very close. She said as much. She initiated on more than one occasion. Now she tells me that she hasn’t had an orgasm in forever and only has sex as a to-do check list item. See the contradiction, again? She would probably suggest that we weren’t having sex as much as I’m saying (but we were - I know. We had it five days straight one weekend just a few weeks ago). Or she’ll switch the conversation and say that it was the same old boring sex. Or she’ll start going off on some thing else.

She pivots like crazy and whenever I bring up anything to counter her claims, she says I’m either “throwing it in her face” or “holding it over her”. The second one makes no sense at all. I’m only doing that if I’m gaining something from her. And what do I gain from her, as a wife? She doesn’t cuddle me, kiss me, hug me, approach me, compliment me, encourage me, or anything else, really. She does ask me how things are going each day, and we do have spurts of sex, as mentioned above, but that well dries up quick and somehow I am always to blame for that. As for her first statement, that I am “throwing it in her face” - how am I ever supposed to counter her statements with proof that she is wrong? In her mind I’m supposed to just sit there and take a verbal pummeling about things that I have recent evidence of having done. As if I do kind things only so that I can pounce on her in these arguments! How twisted is that thinking?

So she wants to separate again and frankly I’m tired of this crap every couple of months. Again, she said that “lately when we get into arguments I become so cold and distant”. As I said, I must not usually be that way in order for it to be noticeable, but more importantly, I know where these arguments lead. It’s always the same thing. Here are the dozen things I do wrong and how I need to be more (insert one of my many supposed faults that would somehow make her be more affectionate/loving/sexual/blah blah blah; as if she has no control over herself). Yawn.

I have so much to say and so many stories that if I don't quit, I'm going to start rambling and sound like I'm on a tangent. It's just hard to get across my story without being lengthy. I'm just tired of walking on eggshells and being a neutered man, trying to keep the beast at bay. I know that this method only makes it worse. I don't want to lose her. I love her. But if she wants to go, then maybe I should just show her the door.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[once removed]

hi Firewater-Oil, and

it sounds like your marriage has reached an impasse.

where in these four stages would you say the relationship stands? https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/your-relationship-breaking-down

[Smedley Butler]

Firewater, your marriage sounds so much like mine that I want to come find you so that we can get a beer somewhere and commiserate.  So much of what you said sounds exactly like my marriage.  My wife recently told me that she thinks there may be some good left in me.  like how do you take that as a husband?  what am I, Darth Vader?  it's unreal the level of victimization these people can convince themselves they are part of.  my wife has it great...really the ideal life, in my opinion.  but you would think she is living under the tyrannical rule of a psychopath to hear her side. 

specifically this:

Here are the dozen things I do wrong and how I need to be more (insert one of my many supposed faults that would somehow make her be more affectionate/loving/sexual/blah blah blah; as if she has no control over herself). Yawn.

hit home.  I could have written that myself.  complete with the "yawn" because it's all so tiresome to hear over and over. 

anyways, no advice to give you here, just commiseration.  you arent alone.  the only difference in our situations is that my wife hasnt said she wants to separate.  i know that she DOES want to, but she is unlikely to be the one to do it, because she needs ME to leave HER in order to complete her victimization fantasy.  I refuse to give in.  plus I have two little girls that I love and cant leave.

[Smedley Butler]

feel free to jump on the thread i started a few weeks back about the topic of sex and BPD wives.  some pretty good discussion going on on that thread (no solutions really, just venting...but it helps).