August challenges

[15years]

I have so much thoughts flying around in my head and I would like to ask a hundred questions here, but I'm at a point where I'm trying to not get overwhelmed by urgency...


Wife suddenly wants to have another child as soon as possible. I don't want that at this stage. She has some magical thinking about a new chapter.


- I don't want to engage in discussing this too much.
- I don't want her to exhaust me with monologues and compel an emotional response from me.
- If I validate her desire for a new child and a new chapter, does that only invite more discussion? Do I keep validating her over and over again?
- I don't want to make promises about the future.
How frank should I be with her? Can I even mention that I'm saying no because of the r/s dysfunction? Not mentioning that seems dishonest and confusing. Mentioning it won't go down well.

"Before we make any decisions about this, our relationship needs to calm down and recover. I need to recover too, and I would assume that you need to recover. I understand that another child would give you a renewed sense of purpose in life and I see how it could serve as a symbol for better times. A new child is a huge commitment and I don't think it's fair to use that as a way to create peace between us. [Insert a soft final statement that would put this debate on hold for a year, without promising anything ]"

[zondolit]

You are wise to be able to say that you do not want another child now.

- I don't want to engage in discussing this too much.
- I don't want her to exhaust me with monologues and compel an emotional response from me.

You can set these limits for yourself and walk away when you reach your limit.

- If I validate her desire for a new child and a new chapter, does that only invite more discussion? Do I keep validating her over and over again?

I think you validate her desire for another child as much as you are able. Be as sympathetic as possible--people who want a child but for whatever reason can't have one, that's a hard thing.

My husband needs so much validation I have to set limits for my own well-being here too. I'm not a validation machine! Especially when it's only coming one way.

- I don't want to make promises about the future.

Definitely don't!

How frank should I be with her? Can I even mention that I'm saying no because of the r/s dysfunction? Not mentioning that seems dishonest and confusing. Mentioning it won't go down well.

I have not found that giving rationales is of any help when interacting with someone with BPD. JADEing--including explaining--is not effective.

Your job is to validate her desire and keep yourself within your limits for your own well-being. If her limit turns out that she wants another child more than she wants to stay with you, then that is a choice you have to face. With BPD it seems desires can be quite transient and meeting the underlying emotional need is really what matters more than whatever object (sorry to call a kid an object here) they have set their heart on.

[ForeverDad]

Wife suddenly wants to have another child as soon as possible. I don't want that at this stage. She has some magical thinking about a new chapter.

Many here have reported that the spouse wanting another pregnancy or baby is an attempt to sabotage a looming divorce.

You already have two young children, one a preschooler and the other just entering elementary school.  If you decide the marriage has failed, the parenting aspect is pretty much standard.  You are reluctant to take that step, but you can ponder that.

However, if you have a third child, I doubt you would even contemplate leaving if she were pregnant or had a babe in arms.  You would feel ethically and literally stuck (for at least a few more years).

A smart decision on your part would be to take charge of birth control.  It's more than just hoping she's regularly taking daily birth control pills.  ("Oops, I forgot and guess what happened?")  What if she gets hold of discarded condoms?

It comes down to this:  If you feel the marriage will somehow become less dysfunctional and thus have a confident future, then you can ponder whether or not to have another child.  If not, then you definitely do not want more children, as that would make unwinding the marriage even more complicated and messy.

You already know she will try to guilt you if you don't do as she wishes, imagine her added leverage of guilting if you have yet another pregnancy/baby.

[maxsterling]

I think this is one of those areas where you probably need to be frank.  Leading her on would be dishonest and unfair to her, whether she is disordered or not.  If she truly wants another child and you don't, then state it in a way that is kind and respectful and honest.  She may choose to leave and find someone else.  This is beyond your control.

As stated, more than likely, her wants and desires are transient.  My W will change her mind about things 10 times in a week, and yes even about something as serious as having a child.  So she may be mad at you for weeks, and bring it up in the future, but after some time of being mad and threatening to leave she likely will return to baseline. 

One approach I have taken is to actually try and discuss it with her, why she wants X, what would be required to achieve X, and whether it is possible.  Usually W eventually comes to the conclusion that X requires too much, and then drops the issue.  For me recently it was about moving.  It basically took me to show her that to afford the cheapest house in our city right now we would need additional income.  She went through the steps of going back to work, but then backed out and since quieted down about moving. 

I am not sure how old you two are, but if she is over 35, having another child is likely to require fertility treatment.  I would strongly suggest not going that route with a pwBPD.

[Notwendy]

I agree with the others. Talking doesn't uphold a boundary. Action does.

A parallel. A burglar wants to break into your house. You stand at your front door with it wide open and explain to the burglar why you don't want him to rob your house, "It's really not a good time to do that. I really don't want you to rob my house"

Or - you take action and lock your door

Which one do you think is most effective?

If you don't want to make a baby, you need to take action to not make a baby Forever Dad made that clear: if you don't want to father another child, you need to be in control of your part of the baby making- contraception and also dispose of any condoms. If you put that aspect in BPDwife's control - then she decides, not you.

And I truly empathize with you. One of the hardest things for me is to say no to BPD mother and stick to it, because she doesn't respect boundaries and will keep pushing until she wears the other person out, emotionally. It takes more than just saying no, it takes being able to withstand the consequences as well.

I wish I had better advice, but short of locking yourself in a suit of armor and throwing away the key, it's going to be a challenge to stand by this one. I don't think you should agree to something you don't want to do, but it will take emotional strength to stand up to this one.

[maxsterling]

My W and I met when we were both 37.  My goal in pursuing a long term R/S was to have a family.  My now-W had the same goal.  It was difficult to find a partner in my 30s that wanted a family that did not already have one.  I told her when we got together that I wanted to wait at least 2 years before marriage, and marriage before trying to have kids. 

My now W did not want to take birth control pills - said she was past that part of her life.  She wanted to just "time" things.  That was not sufficient for me, and I took things into my own hands.  She pressured me, tried her best at manipulation, claimed I did not trust her, etc, etc (should have seen this as a MAJOR red flag).  But, we waited until marriage to try for kids at age 39. 

Of course, 2 months of trying and no kids, W was off blaming me.  The stress gave me prostate issues, and I took strong antibiotics to get rid of an infection in my prostate gland, that turned out to not be an infection at all, but simply stress (on a whim the urologist prescribed me valium and miraculously my urinary pain went away).  Afterwards I went to a fertility clinic to have a sperm count done, the doctor at the clinic told me that men rarely come in by themselves, and said she really needs to see W as a patient.  My count came back fine, but the doctor told W that without IVF, she is rarely to conceive naturally at age 39.  W then blamed me for wanting to wait two years, but the doctor said that even at 37 it is very difficult for a woman to carry a baby to term.  So we went the IVF route, a route both of us had previously said we would never do.

A year into IVF and still no success, we got an egg donation from my Ws cousin.  Again a route that both of us said we would never do, but we did because the cousin offered.  That worked, and I now am very grateful for my twins.  W wound up having a hysterectomy as a result of the pregnancy.  When she is mad she will blame me for making her wait, which led to having to use donor eggs, and which led to her having a hysterectomy.  Having that kind of accusation thrown at me has pretty much killed any desire I have for a sex life. 

Reality?  It would not have made any difference whether we started trying the day we met.  W was likely already infertile from 15-20 years of cigarette smoking, and 15 years of secondhand smoke prior to that.  W points to the fact that she got pregnant a year before we met and had an abortion - but the reality there is that her pregnancy was already facing serious complications at 6 weeks and there is a high likelihood she would have miscarried.  The doctor at the fertility clinic even said this.   

Long story short - If you have any hesitation, I highly advise not to succumb to the pressure because even if you agree and start trying, it will not ease your stress or conflict in any way. 

[Cat Familiar]

Another thing to consider regarding whether to have another child. BPD and other personality disorders have been shown to be heritable. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2789483/