Enmeshment v. Bad / Good Cop

[LifewithEase]

It dawned on me that the struggles to parent with my uBPDw was not necessarily a typical bad cop v. good cop role. Her wanting to be the good cop but because she wants to win over the kids in a way so she isn't abandoned (Enmeshment).

She has a track record of not aligning with me and dismissing me on the more challenging areas: screen time, sugar/healthy eating, back talking, homework habits, etc.

She is mean, aggressive and reactive to me yet always allowing, more accepting inappropriate behavior by the kids. Especially when the kids are upset at me or disagree with my parenting decision. When I make typical parental mistakes she weaponizes them to bond with the kids. She doesn't back me up in the moment of a parenting challenge, in what seems to be a dig on me but also a way of bonding with the kids.

Or is this too much of a stretch? I'm always trying to be fair and not assign all bad behavior on BPD. I think that is important.

Thoughts?

[livednlearned]

What are some of the behaviors you're dealing with? Do you feel comfortable sharing examples? Sometimes the devil is in the details.

In the meantime, have you read up on the Karpmann drama triangle? It may help explain some of the triangulation dynamics that tend to be a go-to tactic for disordered people.

My pwBPD is often searching for ways to be in a one-up position. I presume because it gives her a second of relief from feeling like garbage. Things that seem like nothing to me are gold for her if they give her a temporary feeling she is *winning* at something. The more I communicate what is important to me, the more material she has to work with. Obviously, as a parent you have to communicate what is important, but you can also rank order what's important and focus on what is actually in your control.

Your wife is probably engaging in pathogenic parenting (Dr. Craig Childress's term), or parental alienation. Even though parental alienation is often associated with divorce, in many of our cases the behaviors were present well before. Childress describes how the traits of BPD manifest as pathogenic parenting, with many of the behaviors similar to parental alienation.

A lot of the best material I've read about parenting with a disordered spouse addresses a co-parenting situation, but I think the same principles apply. Richard Warshak's Divorce Poison has very specific examples and tactics for BPD alienation behaviors (many were happening in my marriage, but worsened in divorce). He also talks about how being fair and "not putting kids in the middle" doesn't work when the other parent has already put them in the middle. Different strategies are necessary.

Bill Eddy's book Don't Alienate the Kids: Raising Emotionally Resilient Kids When One Parent has BPD is also very good. He emphasizes the characteristics necessary to model the polar opposite of what kids are learning from a parent with black/white thinking, tremendous anxiety, reactive emotions, etc. I found the perspective made an enormous different when I applied his principles to my own parenting.

It won't solve everything but it can give you a window into the things you do have control over, which is you.

Parenting is such a long game, and lessons our kids learn from us are not always what we think they're learning, and they may not necessarily show which ones they're internalizing until it's later. My son (now 21) says things that he has internalized from me without knowing that I'm the one who planted that thought in his mind. To him, he came to this idea on his own.

Is your wife ever mean to the kids? Does she verbally abuse them?

Would you say you create a validating environment for your children?

[Turkish]

I agree with livednlearned. This isn't enmeshment but more parental alienation, triangulating the kids.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

I'd say that she's recruiting the kids to justify/rescue her as a victim/persecutor. A few years ago, my ex told me that she'd say x, y, z about me, criticism, but that "the kids always defend you!"

I wouldn't go too deep on the triangulation aspect, but more focus on the alienation aspects.

[LifewithEase]

Thanks for the perspective. I've been trying to see how triangulation fit and learning more about how my uBPDw is increasing enmeshment as I build more boundaries yet this and a few other posts are starting to make me realize there is a level of parent alienation going on.

My homework also uncovers that parent alienation is a regular occurrence in marriages and not just in divorce.

Thanks @Turkish and @livednlearned for your responses

[livednlearned]

Building more boundaries is obviously a good thing, but unfortunately it will give your wife something to stonewall and obstruct, as a way to set you up as persecutor. Sometimes what helps to do simultaneously is to create a validating environment, particularly for the kids.

Most kids living in homes with a BPD parent crave validation. It's water to a thirsty plant. And the feelings happen beneath what they can articulate, therefore it makes it harder to fight or resist what's happening (on behalf of enmeshment).

Another two books that belong in the anti-alienation toolkit include Power of Validation for Parents, and I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better by the Lundstroms. There's a chapter in there on asking validating questions which I think might be the single most important skill I learned -- asking validating questions builds trust, and helps buy you a few seconds to change habits that you might find hard to change.

Your kids may, out of a sense of safety, or because of a loyalty bind, take your wife's side, but if you validate them, you create a foundation that creates a path back to you, the safe parent.

Parental validation is the natural order of parenting -- most pwBPD expect the reverse, with the kids providing validation to the parent.

[zondolit]

Your parenting struggles sound very similar to what I encounter with my uBPDh. Rather than helping me parent the children, he tries to "parent" me--tell me what I'm doing wrong. So irritating when I already have my hands full with squabbling/unhappy children!

And I find that any distress expressed by the children--which I think is a normal child response when encountering limits on things like screen time, sugar or reminders to do homework, help around the house--is distressing for him and he just tries to stop the distress any way he can, which is often to be permissive and/or blame me for their distress.

[LifewithEase]

livednlearned,

Wow, this was helpful.

Obstruction

to stonewall and obstruct, as a way to set you up as persecutor. Sometimes what helps to do simultaneously is to create a validating environment, particularly for the kids.

You're correct, obstruction is a regular mode. But I'm not clear what it looks like? Maybe this is a good example?

My uBPDw will not align with me on screen management with my kid. He is allowed unlimited use of a few Apps because they allow for socialization. I'm not against socialization but concerned that the net amount of time is just too much, too distracting, and keeping him from other activities. 

This week my kid has gone past his screen time by a significant amount. His actions have confirmed my concern. I have to be the bad parent and coach, nag, enforcer over the course of the day. When he's again back on screens, my uBPDw (who happens to be giving me her silent treatment) just ignores me. In the past, when I ask her calmly to align in some fashion with me she retorts "You're his father, why can't you get parenting right." Puts me in a terrible position.

Validation

Most kids living in homes with a BPD parent crave validation. It's water to a thirsty plant. And the feelings happen beneath what they can articulate, therefore it makes it harder to fight or resist what's happening (on behalf of enmeshment). -- asking validating questions builds trust, and helps buy you a few seconds to change habits that you might find hard to change.

This is tremendously helpful because I've been at a loss at what to do. I'm an engaged, mindful, thoughtful parent but in the last few months I'm exhausted and not sure which way to improve things. I lose my temper more than I wish or who I want to be. I'm just so angry and frustrated and alone.

Your kids may, out of a sense of safety, or because of a loyalty bind, take your wife's side

My T has helped me confirm that this might be going on. The kid doesn't want to be treated how I am so quickly takes sides or mimics behavior to protect themselves from the uBPDw (their mother).

What is a loyalty bind, however? This is a new term for me.

Thanks for the discussion.

[livednlearned]

You're correct, obstruction is a regular mode. But I'm not clear what it looks like?

I think your example is a good one. It's probably important to recognize, and truly internalize this: she will not cooperate with you. If she does, it won't be consistent. Any plan that expects her to participate in a parenting goal won't work, and sticking to it will only undermine you. This is part of the radical acceptance of co-parenting with someone who has BPD.

This doesn't mean you can't set limits. However, it means you have to be creative in how you set limits for the kids that don't involve her. They will learn consistency and safety and self other things from you, hopefully trust. You have to be very honest about what you genuinely have control over, which is you. Your wife's behaviors are not within your control. And because of that, you have to give them something they are probably not getting from her, which is emotional validation and a sense of being seen and heard and understood.

I don't want to make this sound easy because it isn't.

In a sense, you have a new priority, one that comes before anything else, and that is emotional validation. It's also kind of saying, "I see you're growing up in a dysfunctional home, and I can see how me focusing on screen time and sugar intake might be like focusing on whether the lawn is watered when the house is on fire." So you focus on the thing the kids need most, which is emotional validation. And if create a bond there, they will be more likely to trust that these other parenting issues are worth trusting.

Right now, it seems like mom is the fun parent and you are the bad parent. You want to go down a level and look at who is the emotionally safe parent, and who isn't. And focus there.

Here's an example of that from my own experience. I had a similar goal, which was to not be on screens all the time. I presented it as, "Hey, I need some variety -- too much screen time for me. And it's even more for you. How about we figure out the right ratio together. Maybe 1:1, for every hour of screen time, we do an hour of something together. I want to make sure we have time together and you get to do other stuff." Ask them to help you come up with a list of fun things, then do them. My therapist always said to do things that I liked to do as well so I wasn't playing monopoly for 10 hours straight  

This was based a bit on the love and logic model, plus some help from my son's therapist. "I have this goal. We have this problem. Let's figure out together a way we can make this work." For lower stakes goals, we did trial and error. Other stuff was more like: choose from this list.

One issue you might have -- and I see this in my current husband's family (he has a BPDx wife) -- is that the kids developed contempt for dad, taught to them by mom. How you handle things going forward will depend on the extent to which your wife has been successful with that.

If the contempt is bad, you may have to focus more on building a validating environment, which is essentially about regaining trust lost over the years. This is where the validating questions can be gold. I spent a lot of time asking my son questions and then shutting up. Not easy! I went into it with, "What is x like for you? What are you feeling." I didn't try to fix, correct, shame, judge, save, rescue, teach. I went in with curiosity and empathy.

It doesn't mean you give up on your parenting goals because without them your kids will get worse -- they know, even if they can't express it, that their mom is not parenting them, and that is probably scary.

It just means that you have to pick up a few new skills from the toolkit. One that might also help you is the repair and recover approach. If you lose your temper, wait until you're with the kids and say to them, "Hey, I lost my temper the other night. Not cool. I wanted to apologize and tell you I'm sorry, it can be scary to see an adult get angry like that."

It can build trust in ways that is sheer gold when kids get an apology from an adult. We tell kids to not lose their sh!t, but when we do it, we don't apologize. My son still talks about a time I apologized to him -- it meant the world to him. He felt like I treated him like a real person.

What is a loyalty bind, however?

A loyalty bind is when a kid feels it's not ok to love (or express) love for both parents. It's pretty common in BPD families due to the profound insecurity the BPD parent feels. The only way s/he can feel secure is to throw the other parent under the bus, to get a fleeting moment of self worth at the other parent's expense. Kids who feel most vulnerable will show express loyalty to the disordered parent even if they feel the other parent is safer.