Two year update

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hello everyone, it has been two years exactly since I last came to this board. So many things happened since. My still undiagnosed (by psychiatrist) husband has been on SSRI’s for years now, which seems to be making life largely easier. The mood swings are not as frequent and amplitude is not as severe. His BpD symptoms are mostly managed by me corresponding in dbt skills and appropriate tools. Like has been largely stale, sense of normalcy comes as lukewarm after years of chaos and unpredictability. There is little to no growth or insight to his conditions. The kids are older now, and I ensured that they knew their way around his bpd and bipolar. Things seems to be largely calmer, we have not had a violent episode in years. Yet, I’m always hyper vigilant and ready for the other shoe to drop. Now and again he starts the silent treatment, and I just suspend my marriage in the air, until he comes back to the baseline. All of our issues are still very much prevalent, like emotional intimacy, his inability to introspect, lack of empathy, inflated sense of grandiosity which alternates with absolute despair. He had been calling me “mamma” a lot. It’s been steadily increasing over the years. At times I feel like a parent that manages a grown man. Today is one of these days where he emotionally dis regulated for what seemed out of the blue. I went to get manicure done while he was asleep. Our sleep schedules do not correspond on good day, now that he is manic, he doesn’t sleep until early morning hours. I have the kids and animals to take care of, so my day ends and starts early. Once daily chores were done I began to prepare for neighbourhood party we were invited to. He called me while I was away demanding I come home. When he finally rolled out of bed past midday to prepared breakfast I was talking and eating without a plate. I don’t do this often. My eating habits in combination with my response to his “what are we gifting the neighbours” sent him into stratosphere. He began to yell and shout that I am a big and eat sloppy, he doesn’t want to go anywhere with me, that I’m selfish because a bottle of nice wine is not sufficient and he doesn’t want to attend with me. He then said he will not speak to me. This behaviour sets the trap for me every time. I fell for it again. This caregiving fixing mode just turn on and I go overtime into making him like me again. Our physical intimacy is dissipating. Communication is improving, but every time he disregilates I am sent into ptsd like disassociative state.

[snowglobe]

Hello everyone, it has been two years exactly since I last came to this board. So many things happened since. My still undiagnosed (by psychiatrist) husband has been on SSRI’s for years now, which seems to be making life largely easier. The mood swings are not as frequent and amplitude is not as severe. His BpD symptoms are mostly managed by me corresponding in dbt skills and appropriate tools. Like has been largely stale, sense of normalcy comes as lukewarm after years of chaos and unpredictability. There is little to no growth or insight to his conditions. The kids are older now, and I ensured that they knew their way around his bpd and bipolar. Things seems to be largely calmer, we have not had a violent episode in years. Yet, I’m always hyper vigilant and ready for the other shoe to drop. Now and again he starts the silent treatment, and I just suspend my marriage in the air, until he comes back to the baseline. All of our issues are still very much prevalent, like emotional intimacy, his inability to introspect, lack of empathy, inflated sense of grandiosity which alternates with absolute despair. He had been calling me “mamma” a lot. It’s been steadily increasing over the years. At times I feel like a parent that manages a grown man. Today is one of these days where he emotionally dis regulated for what seemed out of the blue. I went to get manicure done while he was asleep. Our sleep schedules do not correspond on good day, now that he is manic, he doesn’t sleep until early morning hours. I have the kids and animals to take care of, so my day ends and starts early. Once daily chores were done I began to prepare for neighbourhood party we were invited to. He called me while I was away demanding I come home. When he finally rolled out of bed past midday to prepared breakfast I was talking and eating without a plate. I don’t do this often. My eating habits in combination with my response to his “what are we gifting the neighbours” sent him into stratosphere. He began to yell and shout that I am a big and eat sloppy, he doesn’t want to go anywhere with me, that I’m selfish because a bottle of nice wine is not sufficient and he doesn’t want to attend with me. He then said he will not speak to me. This behaviour sets the trap for me every time. I fell for it again. This caregiving fixing mode just turn on and I go overtime into making him like me again. Our physical intimacy is dissipating. Communication is improving, but every time he disregilates I am sent into ptsd like disassociative state.

[Cat Familiar]

Welcome back, snowglobe. If I remember correctly, your daughter should be college age now and your son a teenager? Are they both still living at home?
Sorry if I am incorrect, but doesn’t your son have a mild form of Asperger’s?

I’m glad to hear that things haven’t gotten worse with your husband and that you seem to be managing well, other than with the occasional dysregulation.

How do you foresee the next five years? What goals do you have?

[Notwendy]

Hi Snowglobe-
Thanks for giving the update. It is good that things are calmer and less erratic. There's a certain dullness, even emptiness without as much drama. I realized that there's a disconnect now that I have lessened my reactivity to my BPD mother in our interactions- I think that's because drama is how she relates to people. Drama is a form of dysfunctional relationship- but it's not something I want to engage in with her. I think some dullness is better than drama.

I think you also are using ways to tone things down, in a good way because the high drama interactions did no good whatsoever. When you don't engage in it, your H is left to manage himself. I think leaving him to deal with his own silent treatment is a good skill, after all, when you tried to soothe him and get him out of it, it didn't solve the issue. He also seems to have made improvements in self monitoring- and this is thanks to you not doing it for him - you set the space for this by not reacting, not engaging and not soothing him. Had you continued to do this, he'd not have had the chance to learn. Even if his ability to do this is limited by his mental illness- you see he's made some progress.

Still, old patterns are not easily broken and it can happen that the two of you fall back into it. Don't beat yourself up. This IS progress for you- you recognize it now. You can pull yourself out of it faster. You are also making great progress. It may sometimes feel slower to you, but you have come a long way from your former posts. Sometimes something like PTSD can kick in and you respond on automatic, but you are aware of this now and this is progress. Take credit for this

[maxsterling]

Very interesting.  Thanks for posting.  I have often wondered what my r/s would look like if the violent outbursts, abuse, and the the worst BPD symptoms were largely managed.  My conclusion is that the physical intimacy would still be gone and I would forever be fearful of the really bad stuff returning.  The r/s feels permanently ruined, even if W was able to gain stability.

I hope you can find ways to be happy and take care of yourself.  You deserve to be happy.

[snowglobe]

Welcome back, snowglobe. If I remember correctly, your daughter should be college age now and your son a teenager? Are they both still living at home?
Sorry if I am incorrect, but doesn’t your son have a mild form of Asperger’s?

I’m glad to hear that things haven’t gotten worse with your husband and that you seem to be managing well, other than with the occasional dysregulation.

How do you foresee the next five years? What goals do you have?

Hello @CatFamiliar,
Thank you so much for remembering me. You are absolutely correct, daughter is attending college locally, son is in his late high school courses. His diagnosis was what kept me in my predicament for many years. I’m almost done my graduate level education. I will be starting my placement early next year. I plan to start working full time and gaining my financial independence from undiagnosed husband. I think that will play a big role, aside from his direct behaviour. The seasonal and cyclical part of his diagnosis is still very challenging to deal with. As well as my abandonment concerns. I don’t think I will ever get used to being shouted at or waking up alone when he feels like “punishing me” for speaking out for myself. I’m not sure if the financial independence will be that magic bullet I imagine it to be. I stayed in the recent years largely due to pharmaceutical treatment he was under. With general practitioner now being in the know for every “flair up” I feel more secure and protected. There is someone who documents exacerbation of his symptoms, that he trusts, so it is no longer me dealing with it alone. The goal is to wait until son graduates from high school, gain total independence and then make a decision regarding our future… does it make sense?

[snowglobe]

Hi Snowglobe-
Thanks for giving the update. It is good that things are calmer and less erratic. There's a certain dullness, even emptiness without as much drama. I realized that there's a disconnect now that I have lessened my reactivity to my BPD mother in our interactions- I think that's because drama is how she relates to people. Drama is a form of dysfunctional relationship- but it's not something I want to engage in with her. I think some dullness is better than drama.

I think you also are using ways to tone things down, in a good way because the high drama interactions did no good whatsoever. When you don't engage in it, your H is left to manage himself. I think leaving him to deal with his own silent treatment is a good skill, after all, when you tried to soothe him and get him out of it, it didn't solve the issue. He also seems to have made improvements in self monitoring- and this is thanks to you not doing it for him - you set the space for this by not reacting, not engaging and not soothing him. Had you continued to do this, he'd not have had the chance to learn. Even if his ability to do this is limited by his mental illness- you see he's made some progress.

Still, old patterns are not easily broken and it can happen that the two of you fall back into it. Don't beat yourself up. This IS progress for you- you recognize it now. You can pull yourself out of it faster. You are also making great progress. It may sometimes feel slower to you, but you have come a long way from your former posts. Sometimes something like PTSD can kick in and you respond on automatic, but you are aware of this now and this is progress. Take credit for this

@NotWendy,
Thank you for valid info my experience. CPTSD symptoms have been a challenge, from sweaty palms of my hands to racing heart, you name it. Waiting for the other shoe to drop and being hyper vigilant. I became bitter and cynical. Being in the field of mental health, I know that the journey I am still on is long way from “recovery”, if it is even remotely possible. Physical violence I experienced on several occasions and frequent threats are good predictors of him being capable of hostility and aggression. He did get “milder” with medication and me not fuelling the fire. I would like to know what it looks like, things like being cared for; physically and emotionally. In my adult life I had to become a caregiver, who is overfunctioning in many areas of life.

[snowglobe]

Very interesting.  Thanks for posting.  I have often wondered what my r/s would look like if the violent outbursts, abuse, and the the worst BPD symptoms were largely managed.  My conclusion is that the physical intimacy would still be gone and I would forever be fearful of the really bad stuff returning.  The r/s feels permanently ruined, even if W was able to gain stability.

I hope you can find ways to be happy and take care of yourself.  You deserve to be happy.

@Max,
I’m not thinking in absolute all/nothing terms anymore. There are good moments where I will myself to be present for, intimacy included. I think his diagnosis removed the illusion of control and safety. Providing clear reality of all things being temporarily:

[Notwendy]

 I would like to know what it looks like, things like being cared for; physically and emotionally. In my adult life I had to become a caregiver, who is overfunctioning in many areas of life.

Snowglobe, I know you understand the connection between how you grew up- not feeling cared for. It can lead to feeling undeserving. Also there's the confusion between love and being mistreated when it comes from the primary caregiver- parents.

I hope you continue to realize you are deserving of love- because we all are. The CPTSD, the hypervigilance- this is how you managed as a child. It takes some work to change these patterns to a point of being manageable. It's a work in progress for everyone.

For me, I have felt I needed to "behave to be loved"- because that is what was expected of us as kids. But it seemed my BPD mother could behave badly and still get what she wants. So sometimes I have wondered what that might be like- but I also realize she doesn't get love from behaving that way. It's fear. We complied out of fear, and somehow fear and love got confused.

You don't have to overfunction to be loved Snowglobe. Many of these behaviors you mentioned are about fear and it's scary to live with a volatile person but love isn't about fear. Love includes self love and you can love yourself. I hope you continue to direct some of that caretaking to you.

[Cat Familiar]

Congratulations on nearing the completion of your grad school program. That degree only will that give you financial independence, it will be a tangible reminder of how strong and competent you are, to accomplish this, while navigating countless difficulties. I’m very proud of you. 

[snowglobe]

Snowglobe, I know you understand the connection between how you grew up- not feeling cared for. It can lead to feeling undeserving. Also there's the confusion between love and being mistreated when it comes from the primary caregiver- parents.

I hope you continue to realize you are deserving of love- because we all are. The CPTSD, the hypervigilance- this is how you managed as a child. It takes some work to change these patterns to a point of being manageable. It's a work in progress for everyone.

For me, I have felt I needed to "behave to be loved"- because that is what was expected of us as kids. But it seemed my BPD mother could behave badly and still get what she wants. So sometimes I have wondered what that might be like- but I also realize she doesn't get love from behaving that way. It's fear. We complied out of fear, and somehow fear and love got confused.

You don't have to overfunction to be loved Snowglobe. Many of these behaviors you mentioned are about fear and it's scary to live with a volatile person but love isn't about fear. Love includes self love and you can love yourself. I hope you continue to direct some of that caretaking to you.

That is very interesting perspective. I too wondered how it would look like if I externalized my distress in the same way my partner does. Then again, one of the parents has to provide safety and security. In addition, our relationship quickly escalade to violence on his part, so I don’t try. I went into “pleasing mode” this morning. Like a knee jerk automatic pilot, walked the pets, baked a cake, service with a smile. All in hopes of placating him into more positive mood. Then I willed myself to take a nap and eat something so I can function. Inmeshment and codependency still create bu-directional negative loop, where my life gets I gilded in fire when he dysregulates. Fight or flight, fawn in my case

[snowglobe]

Congratulations on nearing the completion of your grad school program. That degree only will that give you financial independence, it will be a tangible reminder of how strong and competent you are, to accomplish this, while navigating countless difficulties. I’m very proud of you. 

Thank you Cat,
Strangely I don’t feel accomplished. For years I saw this as my get out of jail free card. And now that it is almost here, I do not feel joy. Since he will be jealous and sabotage it in some way. I need to make myself smaller so he doesn’t become resentful and spiteful.

[Notwendy]

I can relate to feeling the need to be "invisible"- it's because you don't feel safe. I think it's a good idea to protect what is important to you. This is your accomplishment, no matter how he feels about it. You don't have to share your feelings about it with him or even your plans. If you want to look at jobs, great. He doesn't need to know that. If you choose to accept a job, then you'd need to tell him - you'd be away at work but he doesn't have to know every interview, or application.

I think it's quite OK to only share your professional plans and goals with people who you know will be supportive. This would be your professors and other professional contacts you made during your program. You don't need someone to rain on your parade. He doesn't get to do that.

[PeteWitsend]

Thank you Cat,
Strangely I don’t feel accomplished. For years I saw this as my get out of jail free card. And now that it is almost here, I do not feel joy. Since he will be jealous and sabotage it in some way. I need to make myself smaller so he doesn’t become resentful and spiteful.

It's good you're recognizing this ahead of time.

When I saw your first post about finishing grad school and gaining financial independence, the thought occurred that it would trigger him.  

I'm not sure how to manage it, but I'm thinking
since one's independence is related to the pwBPD's "Fear of Abandonment" in their disordered way of thinking, so whatever you decide to do in the long run, you could give him some credit, or thank him for his "support" while you worked on your degree (no matter how little he actually did to support you!), as well as emphasize that you can contribute more to the family now.

Your story sounds like you've done a truly admirable job at managing the family around your BPDH's condition, but also drives home how difficult and hopeless it can be despite one's best efforts.