Growing out of Relationships?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

So, I turned 57 in June, and have come to the realization that I have spent 40% of that time suffering under the yoke of commitment and devotion to women who weren’t worthy of receiving either.

I live not too far from the sea, and last night as I watched the couples out for an evening’s promenade by the shore, I thought about the odds of reversing this lugubrious relationship trend of mine, versus the odds of finding myself in an identical set of circumstances as the ones I have left behind.

My money is on the latter.

Although only two months have passed since I ended my relationship, as I watched those couples out walking, I could no longer identify with those people, or saw myself in that position ever again. 

Indeed, given my age, and the cumulative toll taken on my mind by all these horrifically abusive relationships, it’s unlikely that I’d ever recover from another dysfunctional dance around the maypole.

It then occurred to me that you can just grow out of the need for such things, and that the very meaning of relationships is fluid as we age, and at some point they will no longer serve any useful purpose in your life…unless you have a penchant for suffering or servitude.

When I look back on my relationships, it was like I was a caretaker.  If anything needed doing, I had to do it, by virtue of my physical or mental strength. 

We had moved to a rural location in the Maritimes two years ago, and the locals had a disinclination to welcome strangers.  Last fall, it was like a scene out of Straw Dogs when a group of the locals tried to harass us off the property one night, by tearing down our fencing, and riding their quads around our house. Being an ex soldier, I naturally just walked outside and confronted them.  They all drove off into the night, not anticipating that I’d do anything but cower. 

Two months ago, I chose to face off against a forest fire, doing everything in my power to save our house and property.

My return on all that investment?  All my devotion, care, commitment, and unlimited personal liability?

(Makes farting noise)

…and I’m alone…again.

When I also factor in the effort to find someone, and being treated either like a pederast, or a leper, every step of the way…well…it does get you thinking long and hard about the utility of the enterprise.

What do you think?  Are we doomed to repeat this pattern? Do you think that you’ll just get burnt out by it all, and choose to go it alone?

It’s not an uncommon decision for people to just say, “Ah, fu$k it…”



 

[Augustine]

So, I turned 57 in June, and have come to the realization that I have spent 40% of that time suffering under the yoke of commitment and devotion to women who weren’t worthy of receiving either.

I live not too far from the sea, and last night as I watched the couples out for an evening’s promenade by the shore, I thought about the odds of reversing this lugubrious relationship trend of mine, versus the odds of finding myself in an identical set of circumstances as the ones I have left behind.

My money is on the latter.

Although only two months have passed since I ended my relationship, as I watched those couples out walking, I could no longer identify with those people, or saw myself in that position ever again. 

Indeed, given my age, and the cumulative toll taken on my mind by all these horrifically abusive relationships, it’s unlikely that I’d ever recover from another dysfunctional dance around the maypole.

It then occurred to me that you can just grow out of the need for such things, and that the very meaning of relationships is fluid as we age, and at some point they will no longer serve any useful purpose in your life…unless you have a penchant for suffering or servitude.

When I look back on my relationships, it was like I was a caretaker.  If anything needed doing, I had to do it, by virtue of my physical or mental strength. 

We had moved to a rural location in the Maritimes two years ago, and the locals had a disinclination to welcome strangers.  Last fall, it was like a scene out of Straw Dogs when a group of the locals tried to harass us off the property one night, by tearing down our fencing, and riding their quads around our house. Being an ex soldier, I naturally just walked outside and confronted them.  They all drove off into the night, not anticipating that I’d do anything but cower. 

Two months ago, I chose to face off against a forest fire, doing everything in my power to save our house and property.

My return on all that investment?  All my devotion, care, commitment, and unlimited personal liability?

(Makes farting noise)

…and I’m alone…again.

When I also factor in the effort to find someone, and being treated either like a pederast, or a leper, every step of the way…well…it does get you thinking long and hard about the utility of the enterprise.

What do you think?  Are we doomed to repeat this pattern? Do you think that you’ll just get burnt out by it all, and choose to go it alone?

It’s not an uncommon decision for people to just say, “Ah, fu$k it…”



 

[Pook075]

I'm around the one year mark of separation, about to divorce, and I started online dating maybe 6 months ago, just to test the waters.  At first, it was horrible and I felt hopeless.  But eventually I met someone I thought could be the one...and I started seeing manipulative behavior.  I cut ties and ran as fast as possible, maybe even to the point where it was an overreaction.  Anything that looks like BPD scares the heck out of me though and I'm not doing that again.

For reference, I just turned 50, so I'm not that far behind you.

One of the first people I met though, her and I just kept getting closer and closer even though it was a long distance relationship.  We were like best friends though after a few months and I proposed to her six weeks ago.  She completely gets me, the good and the bad, and I don't think I've ever been more open and myself in any relationship.

Don't give up brother- two months isn't long in the grand scheme of things.  There's someone out there for you but you have to keep looking and keep your BPD radar on full alert at all times.  I do think as caretakers we naturally draw that type of relationship, but that doesn't mean that's the only thing out there.

[GlennT]

I am 68. I've had 3 relationships. #1 was a cruel alcoholic I met when I was only 18. I was left for another alcoholic after nearly 10 years. #2 lasted over 30 years and in the middle of that, they became a paranoid schizophrenic. What a hell-ride that was! I had to finally end it because they would not take their meds. #3. Enter the attractive BPD with their love bombing. It was Divine before the devalue and discard and that lasted 4 years. The BPD is still hunting on social media for the one and has been through 8 soulmates since me. So, it all adds up to about 45 years of nothing- most of my life. I have been single since I was 58, about 10 years now and am absolutely loving it!  Not going back! Nope, not even for quicky sex. Plenty of opportunities, even at my age, but no, I am truly enjoying being emotionally single and free after 45 years of relationships. I thank God for this board, for I can now spot a BPD a mile away and dodged some bullets. If you want to date again, roll the dice ... I've heard stories on here about how BPD'S have fooled the best of us, even waiting for years to do it too. Reading the red flags all the survivors left here, is the best you can do.

[Tangled mangled]

So, I turned 57 in June, and have come to the realization that I have spent 40% of that time suffering under the yoke of commitment and devotion to women who weren’t worthy of receiving either.

I live not too far from the sea, and last night as I watched the couples out for an evening’s promenade by the shore, I thought about the odds of reversing this lugubrious relationship trend of mine, versus the odds of finding myself in an identical set of circumstances as the ones I have left behind.

My money is on the latter.

Although only two months have passed since I ended my relationship, as I watched those couples out walking, I could no longer identify with those people, or saw myself in that position ever again. 

Indeed, given my age, and the cumulative toll taken on my mind by all these horrifically abusive relationships, it’s unlikely that I’d ever recover from another dysfunctional dance around the maypole.

It then occurred to me that you can just grow out of the need for such things, and that the very meaning of relationships is fluid as we age, and at some point they will no longer serve any useful purpose in your life…unless you have a penchant for suffering or servitude.

When I look back on my relationships, it was like I was a caretaker.  If anything needed doing, I had to do it, by virtue of my physical or mental strength. 

We had moved to a rural location in the Maritimes two years ago, and the locals had a disinclination to welcome strangers.  Last fall, it was like a scene out of Straw Dogs when a group of the locals tried to harass us off the property one night, by tearing down our fencing, and riding their quads around our house. Being an ex soldier, I naturally just walked outside and confronted them.  They all drove off into the night, not anticipating that I’d do anything but cower. 

Two months ago, I chose to face off against a forest fire, doing everything in my power to save our house and property.

My return on all that investment?  All my devotion, care, commitment, and unlimited personal liability?

(Makes farting noise)

…and I’m alone…again.

When I also factor in the effort to find someone, and being treated either like a pederast, or a leper, every step of the way…well…it does get you thinking long and hard about the utility of the enterprise.

What do you think?  Are we doomed to repeat this pattern? Do you think that you’ll just get burnt out by it all, and choose to go it alone?

It’s not an uncommon decision for people to just say, “Ah, fu$k it…”



 

Almost 40 and going through divorce. The thought of being in a relationship causes me emotional distress and I’d rather just learn to love myself so that there’s nothing attractive about being in love.

[Augustine]

One of the first people I met though, her and I just kept getting closer and closer even though it was a long distance relationship.  We were like best friends though after a few months and I proposed to her six weeks ago.  She completely gets me, the good and the bad, and I don't think I've ever been more open and myself in any relationship.

Don't give up brother- two months isn't long in the grand scheme of things.  There's someone out there for you but you have to keep looking and keep your BPD radar on full alert at all times.  I do think as caretakers we naturally draw that type of relationship, but that doesn't mean that's the only thing out there.

I’m very pleased for you with your good fortune, and thank you for your heartfelt encouragement. 

In my instance, I was beginning to find my relationship intolerably one-sided three years ago, and given its disastrous conclusion, the thought of having anyone in my life again is enough to make me dry heave.

The relationship cost me dearly in every sense, and making the financial and emotional recovery will be at least a year in the making.

 I just can’t see myself having the motivation, and energy, to have someone around me anymore.

 Even thinking about it makes me tired…and tetchy.

[Augustine]

I am 68. I've had 3 relationships. #1 was a cruel alcoholic I met when I was only 18. I was left for another alcoholic after nearly 10 years. #2 lasted over 30 years and in the middle of that, they became a paranoid schizophrenic. What a hell-ride that was! I had to finally end it because they would not take their meds. #3. Enter the attractive BPD with their love bombing. It was Divine before the devalue and discard and that lasted 4 years. The BPD is still hunting on social media for the one and has been through 8 soulmates since me. So, it all adds up to about 45 years of nothing- most of my life. I have been single since I was 58, about 10 years now and am absolutely loving it!  Not going back! Nope, not even for quicky sex. Plenty of opportunities, even at my age, but no, I am truly enjoying being emotionally single and free after 45 years of relationships. I thank God for this board, for I can now spot a BPD a mile away and dodged some bullets. If you want to date again, roll the dice ... I've heard stories on here about how BPD'S have fooled the best of us, even waiting for years to do it too. Reading the red flags all the survivors left here, is the best you can do.

Glenn, thank you for sharing this, and the one element that is conspicuous is your indomitable fortitude.

I’m with you, mate, as I’ve been put through the mangle so many times that I’d have to be mad to volunteer to be put upon ever again.

When I look back upon my relationships, all I can see is the short period of lovely utter madness at the beginning, and then the long, drawn-out suffering that followed, completely losing sight of myself every-single-time.

In every single instance, none of those experiences were even worth a curse.

[Augustine]

Almost 40 and going through divorce. The thought of being in a relationship causes me emotional distress and I’d rather just learn to love myself so that there’s nothing attractive about being in love.

When I was your age, I had to wade through a similar set of circumstances, and the process was so emotionally draining that I lost 40 pounds in two months.

At the time, I was adamant that I wasn’t going to let the situation alter my perception of relationships, and dated with a gusto I had never possessed before. 

I honestly would have been better off being marooned on a desert island by myself for sixteen years, and slowly staving to death, as every single relationship that I committed to after that break-up in my early forties was worse than the one that preceded it. 

When I think of all the time and effort I poured into these relationships, I feel identically to you: The thought of having another induces a state of distress so acute that it almost becomes debilitating.

[Azrael]

So, I turned 57 in June, and have come to the realization that I have spent 40% of that time suffering under the yoke of commitment and devotion to women who weren’t worthy of receiving either.

I live not too far from the sea, and last night as I watched the couples out for an evening’s promenade by the shore, I thought about the odds of reversing this lugubrious relationship trend of mine, versus the odds of finding myself in an identical set of circumstances as the ones I have left behind.

My money is on the latter.

Although only two months have passed since I ended my relationship, as I watched those couples out walking, I could no longer identify with those people, or saw myself in that position ever again. 

Indeed, given my age, and the cumulative toll taken on my mind by all these horrifically abusive relationships, it’s unlikely that I’d ever recover from another dysfunctional dance around the maypole.

It then occurred to me that you can just grow out of the need for such things, and that the very meaning of relationships is fluid as we age, and at some point they will no longer serve any useful purpose in your life…unless you have a penchant for suffering or servitude.

When I look back on my relationships, it was like I was a caretaker.  If anything needed doing, I had to do it, by virtue of my physical or mental strength. 

We had moved to a rural location in the Maritimes two years ago, and the locals had a disinclination to welcome strangers.  Last fall, it was like a scene out of Straw Dogs when a group of the locals tried to harass us off the property one night, by tearing down our fencing, and riding their quads around our house. Being an ex soldier, I naturally just walked outside and confronted them.  They all drove off into the night, not anticipating that I’d do anything but cower. 

Two months ago, I chose to face off against a forest fire, doing everything in my power to save our house and property.

My return on all that investment?  All my devotion, care, commitment, and unlimited personal liability?

(Makes farting noise)

…and I’m alone…again.

When I also factor in the effort to find someone, and being treated either like a pederast, or a leper, every step of the way…well…it does get you thinking long and hard about the utility of the enterprise.

What do you think?  Are we doomed to repeat this pattern? Do you think that you’ll just get burnt out by it all, and choose to go it alone?

It’s not an uncommon decision for people to just say, “Ah, fu$k it…”



 

 I think as men, we all been in this path. I think you should check youtube videos of people like Jordan Peterson, Kevin Samuels and fresh and fit, so you can see what is really happening out there. Women reaching the 40s , 50s already made their lives. And we are used all the time for what you just said, resources , time, money. Women are not interested mostly in what we are, but in what we can do for them, and given that there is always someone else that will do the same or more for them, they start the monkey branching process. Is hypergamia. If you find someone, first lets her be the interested one, in company, nothing else. And learn to set your boundaries the best you can, including not killing yourself for anyone. Make clear that you will give as you are given and treat as you are treated, and avoid BPD, NPD, HPD, etc. Put down the saviour complex that we all men have, and try to start enjoying yourself. Look for more important things in your spiritual and mental health life, your physical life. When you take care of yourself, you will naturally attract others. Putting your money on something that in inherently unstable due to their emotional nature, can only get you the same results always.

[Tangled mangled]

When I was your age, I had to wade through a similar set of circumstances, and the process was so emotionally draining that I lost 40 pounds in two months.

At the time, I was adamant that I wasn’t going to let the situation alter my perception of relationships, and dated with a gusto I had never possessed before. 

I honestly would have been better off being marooned on a desert island by myself for sixteen years, and slowly staving to death, as every single relationship that I committed to after that break-up in my early forties was worse than the one that preceded it. 

When I think of all the time and effort I poured into these relationships, I feel identically to you: The thought of having another induces a state of distress so acute that it almost becomes debilitating.

Thanks for the heads up! I will channel whatever drive and determination there’s left in me towards self-care and keeping these  toxic vampires away

[Augustine]

When you take care of yourself, you will naturally attract others. Putting your money on something that in inherently unstable due to their emotional nature, can only get you the same results always.

Thanks, mate, and I couldn’t agree more.  I’m right on board with you, being a devotee of Jordan’s for almost a decade.

Sadly, women do have a marked tendency to not be as emotionally resilient as men, and failing to divine where they truly reside relative to a datum, before being blindsided by the first rush of oxytocin, is the reason why we have gathered here.  

Once you’re hooked, the categorical imperative now holds sway to the bitter end.  I suppose if nature wasn’t  organized this way, the human race would have died out ages ago.  

On a macro scale, all thriving civilizations are predicated on one principle: the normative influence that decrees that men are expendable.  

Women want to “feel” things, and believe life has gone horribly awry the further they are displaced from the experiences of the initial courtship rituals.  Unfortunately, as you say, if they can get that rush from someone else, you can measure the remaining time in your relationship in seconds.  

As you noted, me willing to sacrifice my life meant sweet diddly fu€k to my x at that late stage in our relationship. If I made the same sacrifices in our formative years, the mountains would still be echoing with her praises for me.

The irony here is that her next fella won’t be as self-sacrificial, and the day will inevitably dawn when he’ll then be harangued with, “Well, my x would have happily thrown himself under a truck for me!”

She’ll then be wistful…

Just one of life’s little jokes, with us as the punchline.  

[Augustine]

Thanks for the heads up! I will channel whatever drive and determination there’s left in me towards self-care and keeping these  toxic vampires away

Tongue in cheek, I sometimes think that the safest path involves smoking, hard liquor, and dissolution. 

I’ve found that focusing on self improvement, and being the best version of yourself, immediately makes you look extremely attractive to the opposite sex.

[Azrael]

Thanks, mate, and I couldn’t agree more.  I’m right on board with you, being a devotee of Jordan’s for almost a decade.

Sadly, women do have a marked tendency to not be as emotionally resilient as men, and failing to divine where they truly reside relative to a datum, before being blindsided by the first rush of oxytocin, is the reason why we have gathered here.  

Once you’re hooked, the categorical imperative now holds sway to the bitter end.  I suppose if nature wasn’t  organized this way, the human race would have died out ages ago.  

On a macro scale, all thriving civilizations are predicated on one principle: the normative influence that decrees that men are expendable.  

Women want to “feel” things, and believe life has gone horribly awry the further they are displaced from the experiences of the initial courtship rituals.  Unfortunately, as you say, if they can get that rush from someone else, you can measure the remaining time in your relationship in seconds.  

As you noted, me willing to sacrifice my life meant sweet diddly fu€k to my x at that late stage in our relationship. If I made the same sacrifices in our formative years, the mountains would still be echoing with her praises for me.

The irony here is that her next fella won’t be as self-sacrificial, and the day will inevitably dawn when he’ll then be harangued with, “Well, my x would have happily thrown himself under a truck for me!”

She’ll then be wistful…

Just one of life’s little jokes, with us as the punchline.  

 Well, one thing that thriving civilizations used to have, is the total control of the women behavior either by patriachal hand over to a male husband, or by cultural and religious rules. You will see muslim men thriving in this sense and their nations too, as they are the richest in the world. When you give complete freedom to something that since the beginning was designed , due to that same unstable emotions, to be held under the protection and lead of a man, what you get is the millions of broken homes from which these specimens were formed. Now, with the bitterness of a perceived rejection and abandonment, due to the feminism culture and the excessive "freedom", these creatures go to destroy the next man they find in their way to compensate for the damage done to them. Reality is that the patriarchal rules and society actually protected women from all this, and gave them a place where to create a family without stress, rejection, abandonment or any of those issues. This have been designed in a way to destroy the family nucleous, while making pharma and government rich. We need to cut mentally from these BPD women. Just try not to think about them at all.

[SinisterComplex]

Tongue in cheek, I sometimes think that the safest path involves smoking, hard liquor, and dissolution. 

I’ve found that focusing on self improvement, and being the best version of yourself, immediately makes you look extremely attractive to the opposite sex.

^^^This second part is what I preach. Although it doesn't just make you attractive to the opposite sex...it makes you more attractive as a person overall. Generally you will have better relationships with friends too...male or female, co-workers, family, etc. Why? You will typically have more confidence, speak with more conviction, generally just feel better about yourself.

All you can do is control YOU and put yourself into positions for the best opportunities to happen.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[SinisterComplex]

Thanks for the heads up! I will channel whatever drive and determination there’s left in me towards self-care and keeping these  toxic vampires away

TM, the focus self-care is what I totally support. However, in addition to that I would suggest practicing outcome independence. Put simply, train yourself to be consistently happy with you and do not stock in outcomes which you have no control over. In essence, do not emotionally attach yourself to outcomes. This could be something such as trying to win the lottery. Sounds corny, but my point is...if you pin all your hopes and dreams and emotionally attach yourself to winning that one day/night you set yourself up for massive failure and you will perpetuate a cycle of negative energy.

Think of the universe like a mirror...you will get back what you put out. So hey if you want to play the lottery...ok hell why not? But, make sure your focus is placed on other things and pay it no mind. Make sense? Just using a simple analogy to perhaps open your mind to the ideal.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[Tangled mangled]

 Well, one thing that thriving civilizations used to have, is the total control of the women behavior either by patriachal hand over to a male husband, or by cultural and religious rules. You will see muslim men thriving in this sense and their nations too, as they are the richest in the world. When you give complete freedom to something that since the beginning was designed , due to that same unstable emotions, to be held under the protection and lead of a man, what you get is the millions of broken homes from which these specimens were formed. Now, with the bitterness of a perceived rejection and abandonment, due to the feminism culture and the excessive "freedom", these creatures go to destroy the next man they find in their way to compensate for the damage done to them. Reality is that the patriarchal rules and society actually protected women from all this, and gave them a place where to create a family without stress, rejection, abandonment or any of those issues. This have been designed in a way to destroy the family nucleous, while making pharma and government rich. We need to cut mentally from these BPD women. Just try not to think about them at all.

Total control of the women behaviour: sounds a bit narcissistic don’t you think?
 


Good luck sir!

[Tangled mangled]

TM, the focus self-care is what I totally support. However, in addition to that I would suggest practicing outcome independence. Put simply, train yourself to be consistently happy with you and do not stock in outcomes which you have no control over. In essence, do not emotionally attach yourself to outcomes. This could be something such as trying to win the lottery. Sounds corny, but my point is...if you pin all your hopes and dreams and emotionally attach yourself to winning that one day/night you set yourself up for massive failure and you will perpetuate a cycle of negative energy.

Think of the universe like a mirror...you will get back what you put out. So hey if you want to play the lottery...ok hell why not? But, make sure your focus is placed on other things and pay it no mind. Make sense? Just using a simple analogy to perhaps open your mind to the ideal.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

Thanks SC.
Never heard of outcome independence, but sounds like a step in the right direction, will look this up, and thank you for the suggestions. Working on being happy with myself and self compassion.

[capecodling]

Women are not interested mostly in what we are, but in what we can do for them, and given that there is always someone else that will do the same or more for them, they start the monkey branching process.

I agreed with a lot of what you said but this part I don't agree with.   I constantly hear of women struggling with finding someone, especially if she already has children and is 40+.   I think what you said *may* apply to the very top percentage of women in terms of looks ---- those who are young (early 20s) without kids and are very attractive.   This "elite" tier of women (and I'm using the word elite a bit ironically) have many men chasing after them and can afford to be very selective.   But the problem is that men tend to focus on the very hottest women, and then generalize what they see there to ALL women, and it just isn't true.  The average woman 40+ feels quite invisible, and she may have some men hitting her up for sex, but they aren't usually men she considers very desirable.   I find a lot of J.P. thinking to be interesting, but some can lead to dangerous conclusions that promote scarcity mindset.

[Biggus]

I find a lot of J.P. thinking to be interesting, but some can lead to dangerous conclusions that promote scarcity mindset.

Agree. Politics or statistics won't help you to find a partner.

There's a really good book "No More Mr. Nice Guy" written by Dr. Robert A. Glover, it's for men who wish to find strength from their masculinity and escape the innate narcissism we all have, and it's completely apolitical.

[kells76]

When I look back on my relationships, it was like I was a caretaker. If anything needed doing, I had to do it, by virtue of my physical or mental strength. 
...

Two months ago, I chose to face off against a forest fire, doing everything in my power to save our house and property.

My return on all that investment?  All my devotion, care, commitment, and unlimited personal liability?

(Makes farting noise)

…and I’m alone…again.

When I also factor in the effort to find someone, and being treated either like a pederast, or a leper, every step of the way…well…it does get you thinking long and hard about the utility of the enterprise.

What do you think?  Are we doomed to repeat this pattern? Do you think that you’ll just get burnt out by it all, and choose to go it alone?

Her response to the forest fire situation is deeply hurtful. When you literally put your life on the line and "it's not good enough", yeah, anyone would say -- so is this all worth it?

...

It's interesting going back to the original question -- are we doomed to repeat these patterns?

My thought is -- we're in the driver's seat of a lot of it. How much work are we willing to put in, to choose a different path?

I say this as someone with relationship struggles (though my H is not BPD). It's really painful to look at what happened in our past that led to these conflicts and the ruts we get in. And yeah, maybe we'll be doomed to repeat the patterns... as long as we don't choose anything different.

I remember listening to a podcast where a therapist was talking about how one of her clients was describing some patterns happening in his life, and he was like, "but that's just who I am" (as if "this is inevitable, what could I do"). And she replied -- "well, yeah! That is who you are... as long as you keep deciding that that's who you are."

It's a live question how much we can change our wiring, inclinations, patterns. I think we can definitely get to a point of awareness: "Oh, I notice in this relational conflict, I'm doing the thing I always tend to do" (for me, it's shutting down/withdrawing). I can notice myself "being who I am" and then it's choice time. I have found it really difficult to arrive at a point of insight ("Here I go again being a caretaker like I always do") and then watch myself not choose differently. I have a lot of work to do, to accept the pain of doing things differently.

[kells76]

Just to fill out that idea about "how much control do I have about repeating relationship patterns" --

I think within the past ~5 years or so, as I've reflected back on the relationships in my life, I've noticed that:

my best friend in HS had a mom with severe BPD (though I didn't know it at the time),

when I was in treatment in college for an eating disorder, I dated a guy I met in treatment who I now realize probably had BPD,

my H's kids' mom has many traits/behaviors of BPD (though I didn't know it when we got together),

my H's kids' mom married H's former best friend, who has strong NPD traits,

my H's mom had many traits/behaviors of BPD in the past,

two of my H's sisters have strong BPD traits,

my mom's dad was abusive and likely NPD and my mom's mom didn't have good boundaries,

our marriage counselor suggested that my mom may have BPD (my mom has acknowledged having cPTSD but nothing more),

my dad's mom has some mild PD type traits (long term b/w thinking, "you're good or you're bad", switching long term enemies to friends, painting a sister black over a past slight)

...

So why did I keep picking relationships, whether friends or romantic, with people who were PD-adjacent?

What about those relationships felt so familiar to me?

My default relationship mode is "keep the peace/get quiet/don't say anything". There is likely some caretaking in there.

What happened in my life where that's how I do relationships? And how much control do I have over changing that?

I really want to thank you for starting this thread and asking these questions. It's helpful for me to drill down to the core issues in play, because now I can distill a lot of stuff into this question to myself, which is:

"kells76, out of the many tens of thousands of people that you could've chosen to be in a relationship with, do you ever wonder why you chose someone where now you're in a role where you want to save children from a BPD mom? You don't ever wonder what it is that you want to replay and get a different ending?"

Wondering if any of that resonates with you.

[Azrael]

I agreed with a lot of what you said but this part I don't agree with.   I constantly hear of women struggling with finding someone, especially if she already has children and is 40+.   I think what you said *may* apply to the very top percentage of women in terms of looks ---- those who are young (early 20s) without kids and are very attractive.   This "elite" tier of women (and I'm using the word elite a bit ironically) have many men chasing after them and can afford to be very selective.   But the problem is that men tend to focus on the very hottest women, and then generalize what they see there to ALL women, and it just isn't true.  The average woman 40+ feels quite invisible, and she may have some men hitting her up for sex, but they aren't usually men she considers very desirable.   I find a lot of J.P. thinking to be interesting, but some can lead to dangerous conclusions that promote scarcity mindset.

 The reason I quoted JP, Kevin and others, is because they illustrate this delusion from females, even the over 40. That over 40 with children you are talking about, is the same 20 something that was hot and by her early delusions got to be 40 and now desperate. Is not an exaggeration. You have to open your eyes to reality if you want to avoid the same thing happening over and over. We fool ourselves creating new niches.Like " nah , is bc you got a very young one, old one, with kids one, single one, etc etc etc". We men are experts in defending a worthless point to just have some speck of hope. No. Is not that when they get to 40 they mature more. Is not about the kids. Is that their time go shorter, and facing the 50s onwards alone is terrifying. I have known women like that, very beautiful, with 3 kids at her 40, after she did all that the 20s do, running the hypergamy race, and now facing the future alone bc no man wants to carry with 3 kids etc, when they can have a woman in their 20,30 with no kids. And these women have told me how horrorized they are of facing the future alone, bc now no man wants them.  Is simple math and they know it better than us. Im sorry, but we keep romanticizing these relations, when in reality, we are the only ones with a romantic mindset. The women mind is somewhere else, in convenience. Not that they wont enjoy feelings, emotions or romance. But that is NOT their drive. It might be yours , or mine or men etc. Men and women minds are COMPLETELY different regarding this.

[Augustine]

Im sorry, but we keep romanticizing these relations, when in reality, we are the only ones with a romantic mindset. The women mind is somewhere else, in convenience. Not that they wont enjoy feelings, emotions or romance. But that is NOT their drive. It might be yours , or mine or men etc. Men and women minds are COMPLETELY different regarding this.

Yes, this is a completely accurate assessment.  It is an established fact that women do appreciate, and personally acknowledge, their ranking in the hierarchy, and know that the clock is always ticking.

 They are acutely aware of the amount of male attention they are getting, when it begins to taper off with age, and it does distress them.

Menopause is very hard on women emotionally, because they understand that their beauty is fading.  Just like a man when he enters middle age, and discovers his strengths withering.  Your defining characteristics are disappearing.

If you enter any given drug store, fully 1/3 of it is entirely devoted to female beauty products, so that entirely underscores their foundational motivation.

Men define themselves by their achievements, their purpose, and their convictions.

 I can assure you that the caring/loving/doting man doesn’t even fall on any woman’s radar, unless she cannot attract something better. 

A fat woman with two children will never appeal to 99.9% of men.

If this wasn’t the case, the species would have perished thousands of years ago.

[I Am Redeemed]

We all work together so closely that we sometimes forget how diverse the membership really is.  This is why we have a guideline that addresses potentially contentious content:

1.14 Potentially Contentious Content: Discussions on contentious political, religious, moral issues (e.g., euthanasia, abortion), or social advocacy topics (feminism, anti-government, male dominance) are discouraged. There are other places to debate politics, religion, etc. and these debates are better suited for a venue where community camaraderie, trust and credibility are not highly held values. The nature of the discussions at BPDFamily.com are best held without the undertone of political or religious alignments.

[SinisterComplex]

Just a reminder that we need to strive to stay away from over-generalizing. Essentially, if it is something you can prove then provide the credible source. If it is an opinion please be careful and at least state that it is your opinion before making the statement.

For Reference:

2.6 Over generalizing: There are many similarities in the experiences of people involved in high conflict relationships. And, when we feel emotionally wounded, we often look for vindication and validation to sooth our pain. It's easy to buy too far into this "soothing" and lose sight of our role in the conflict and struggles -- and when we do, healing and growth come slowly.

Avoid excessive use of blanket statements like "they all lie?" or posing blanket questions like "why do they all cheat?" or "what were we thinking?". It's healthier to keep your explorations and comments in the first person by phrasing things as "why did my girlfriend lie?", "why did my boyfriend cheat?", And "what was I thinking?".

Personality disorders and traits have a broad spectrum of expression and every relationship dynamic is unique, just as each of us are unique.