Grey Rock method?

[uncleflo]

Hi All - Has anybody here had success using the grey rock method with their BPD partner? Ironically, when my wife asked for a trial separation, I started implementing this method without even realizing it was an actual thing. Less has been more. Less fire means cleaner air.

Anybody with successful or unsuccessful experiences with the method is very welcomed. 

Uncle

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[livednlearned]

Grey rock method seems to me a less fulfilling, less sustainable version of reconnecting with your confident self.

Part of grey rocking is to minimize the target so there is less to attack or misinterpret. There is less material to trigger emotional dysregulation. There is less emotion, period.

But what about you? What becomes of you as someone who "grey rocks"?

A BPD relationship is a high needs or special needs relationship. There is often a parent-partner dichotomy that takes some skill to navigate. Sometimes you will be a parent, sometimes you will be a partner. Grey rocking can be a way to stabilize the free fall, but without a plan for how to meaningfully navigate towards something more sustainable (for you), much (of you) will be sacrificed.

My hunch is that when "grey rock" works, part of it is that you, the non-BPD partner, is communicating stability. You are not getting on the emotional roller coaster, and that can be comforting to someone who, without realizing it, is desperate for their partner to stay grounded while they're hurtling through space.

Use it if it's all you've got but look at why it's working.

When I shifted into "parent" mode with my BPDxh he retreated. In retrospect, I think he wanted to know that someone was stabilizing the intense emotional swing and not getting caught up in it.

Grey rock, the way it's often referred to on the internet, at least in my experience, seems to rarely mention that the purpose is to better understand what's happening emotionally between two people, and how to regulate your emotions to help them regulate theirs, contributing to stability and also (hopefully) to trust, knowing that trust is chronically being tested in a BPD relationship, therefore it will not likely ever be easy.

[Skip]

"Grey rock" is, for the most part, street psychology/terminology. In clinical terms, it would be called passive-aggressive behavior.

Look at the linguistics. "Aggressive behavior."  That sounds destructive. "Passive". Ah, masked aggressive behavior. This doesn't sound too healthy.

The reason passive-aggressive behavior might appear to be working is because, initially, in an amped-up relationship, it is a reduction of the tension and our resistance. This part is good. But the aggressive behavior part (the "we showed them" or "that subhuman doesn't deserve human treatment" or "they are the problem, not me" ) is unhealthy for us. It will eventually be bad for the relationship.

A healthier, more long-term approach is recognizing that the other person has impulse control issues and learning to "handle it" by reducing tension and our resistance. This is the same. But now substitute grace for aggression. This could be in the form of being more validating (or, more importantly less invalidating). It can also be done by staying above the fray.

You wouldn't grey-rock a child for throwing a tantrum in a grocery store, right? The child would end up with issues and what parent goes secretly at war with their child? What we normally do is reduce the tension (remove audience) and our resistance. We act more validating (and less invalidating). We stay above the fray and let them self sooth.

[uncleflo]

A healthier, more long-term approach is recognizing that the other person has impulse control issues and learning to "handle it" by reducing tension and our resistance. This is the same. But now substitute grace for aggression. This could be in the form of being more validating (or, more importantly less invalidating). It can also be done by staying above the fray.

I very much appreciate your perspective on this, Skip. That said, I think it might be possible to do a variation of this method with the less-is-actually-more bent without being passive-aggressive in the process. For example, the pwBPD in my life is not in touch with her core emotions (feeling worthless, fear of abandonment, etc.) and is reactive when she feels attacked. When I minimize my responses, my goal is to lessen the tension and simplify the moment by speaking less. For example, last night I mentioned I had cleaned my son's room before he returned home from college, and she reacted by saying, "What, I didn't do a good enough job?" I kept my response minimal and the tension dissipated quickly. I've found that simply responses to her, "Yeah," or, "Okay, sounds good," lead to less strife. I'm not looking to cause her further harm; I'm looking to keep the balance. I tend to feel that silent treatment or no contact is more aggressive from my perspective. Keeping her emotions balanced and staying above the fray is my only goal.

[uncleflo]

Part of grey rocking is to minimize the target so there is less to attack or misinterpret. There is less material to trigger emotional dysregulation. There is less emotion, period.

But what about you? What becomes of you as someone who "grey rocks"?

Thank you so much for your thoughts, and excellent questions. To be honest, "what about me," is a question I've neglected for the last 20+ years and after she asked for a separation, I began to unpack this question more and more, realizing I had put her and my kids above myself. This last year has deepened my quest to define this question. Noble silence, for example, isn't meant to be cold, indifferent, or emotionless; it's meant to allow the moment to come and go without resistance. Perhaps what I'm talking about isn't "grey rocking," as much as it is something else entirely. Perhaps it's more centered around the idea of keeping the water from boiling over, not just for her but for myself and our kids. There is a part of me, yes, who is tired of being the one left holding the bag after she disassociates and would prefer to let her hold it on her own. Does that make sense?

[Skip]

I very much appreciate your perspective on this, Skip. That said, I think it might be possible to do a variation of this method with the less-is-actually-more bent without being passive-aggressive in the process. For example, the pwBPD in my life is not in touch with her core emotions (feeling worthless, fear of abandonment, etc.) and is reactive when she feels attacked. When I minimize my responses, my goal is to lessen the tension and simplify the moment by speaking less. For example, last night I mentioned I had cleaned my son's room before he returned home from college, and she reacted by saying, "What, I didn't do a good enough job?" I kept my response minimal and the tension dissipated quickly. I've found that simply responses to her, "Yeah," or, "Okay, sounds good," lead to less strife. I'm not looking to cause her further harm; I'm looking to keep the balance. I tend to feel that silent treatment or no contact is more aggressive from my perspective. Keeping her emotions balanced and staying above the fray is my only goal.

What you describe above is staying above the fray and I think with grace. Her comment was related to her own insecurity - you see that, you weren't hurt by it, you didn't try to sooth her wound. The important thing is that you didn't communicate or feel contempt or disrespect in your response or lack of. And you don't feel it now. That's a good thing to do.

We often tell members to use a tool called BIFF. Brief, informative, friendly, and firm.

[uncleflo]

We often tell members to use a tool called BIFF. Brief, informative, friendly, and firm.

This is it! Ah, okay. I'm glad I'm on the right path. Thank you, Skip. Sometimes it's quite a challenge to remain graceful, especially with some of the gaslighting, push-pull, and maddening behavior I see.  When she pushes those buttons that she knows worked in the past, oo… I can see the gas being turned on with my inner stove.

I'm at a point now that I'm at peace with however this whole separation game shakes out. She leaves? Okay. I'll figure it out. She gaslights it to make me the bad guy? Okay. I know I'm not. She tires of her current source and tries to lovebomb me? Okay. I'll keep my center and not think, "Yay, she had her come to Jesus moment and figured it out!" What she most likely doesn't realize is that the separation has been good for me on many levels, as it has helped me see the forest for the trees. And some of those trees are just not okay trees. And I don't want to go back to the way the forest was before…

[waverider]

The goal is to disengage, without coming across as indifferent and uninterested. The former minimizes escalation and the later avoids total invalidation.

It is hard though when you get tired and frustrated at hearing the same old drama for the endless time, it is all too easy to just completely shut down. If shut down can't be avoid find a reason to be somewhere else rather than doing it right in front of them, we cant be on empathy call the whole time.

[uncleflo]

The goal is to disengage, without coming across as indifferent and uninterested. The former minimizes escalation and the later avoids total invalidation.

It is hard though when you get tired and frustrated at hearing the same old drama for the endless time, it is all too easy to just completely shut down. If shut down can't be avoid find a reason to be somewhere else rather than doing it right in front of them, we cant be on empathy call the whole time.

Ain't that the truth?

[Rev]

Ain't that the truth?

So it is...  I've read the thread. 

Couple of things that I'd add, hoping that I haven't missed something.

Added to BIFF is JADE - avoiding the need to Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain. 

It's been my experience that when I fall into that, it's because I am holding on to desired, insisted upon even, outcomes.  The comment about fostering a connection with a confident self rings true for me.

Hopefully there is something in this you can use.  These relationship are so characterized by moving goalposts and shifting ground that it can be hard to know some times.

Hang in there.

Rev

[once removed]

Added to BIFF is JADE - avoiding the need to Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain. 

Yes! This is the one that comes to my mind, too (along with "don't become a part of circular arguments", or "don't escalate conflict, which "don't jade" encapsulates).

If you just stopped at "don't justify, argue, defend, explain", you could just be evasive, or stonewalling, or even silent treating.

When you look deeper into "don't jade" as a concept, the point isn't "you don't owe your loved one any explanation, ignore them", it is to first understand our loved ones, their nature and their needs, but also to look at ourselves, our needs, and how we are contributing to the conflict. It is a central part of the idea of "staying above the fray", but fosters connection, as opposed to just "getting a difficult person off your back".

[Rev]

Yes! This is the one that comes to my mind, too (along with "don't become a part of circular arguments", or "don't escalate conflict, which "don't jade" encapsulates).

If you just stopped at "don't justify, argue, defend, explain", you could just be evasive, or stonewalling, or even silent treating.

When you look deeper into "don't jade" as a concept, the point isn't "you don't owe your loved one any explanation, ignore them", it is to first understand our loved ones, their nature and their needs, but also to look at ourselves, our needs, and how we are contributing to the conflict. It is a central part of the idea of "staying above the fray", but fosters connection, as opposed to just "getting a difficult person off your back".

Excellent addition -

In the end - really with everyone these days, given the rising rates of anxiety, depression and feelings of isolation, I am beginning to see "compassion and empathy" as choices we make as much as skills we adopt.

The X'ian bible puts it this way - For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also - meaning that we find what we value and and what we value, well that's a choice.  I raise this because the X'ian bible is what I know.  Other faiths and philosophies will likely have similar ways of looking at the same question.  My point in using it is because it is VERY old wisdom which we keep returning so - which gives me a sense of inner confidence.

Happy Monday

Rev

[HurtAndTired]

Uncle - Everything that has been posted here is great. I love this community so much and am so glad that it is finally back online! I just wanted to add my own little tidbit to all of the awesome advice that has already been offered, and that is simply that self-care is not selfish. You alluded to thinking "what about me" for the first time in years, which I am quite familiar with myself. You have been putting your needs last or completely ignoring them for so long that you have forgotten what it feels like to care for yourself. You mentioned having to keep things together for the kids, which makes me think about how on airplanes during the safety demo the flight attendants tell you "in case of emergency, place the oxygen mask over your own face before securing the mask on the child." In other words, if you are passed out due to lack of oxygen, you are putting yourself in a position where you cannot help your child.

Your needs are valid and you need to take care of yourself so that you can be fully ready to care for your kids. You can continue to love your wife, even though you are separated, but you cannot be expected to be her caretaker. Caring about her is different than caring for her. Embrace your confident self and get used to the idea of loving yourself. It doesn't sound like you are grey rocking to me, it sounds more like you are simply finally asserting that you are a human being who deserves to be happy, to be treated decently and that the only person who has power over your happiness is you.