My husband's last explosion

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Oh well, we made it about 5 or 6 weeks being relatively peaceful, but just like I was warned, it didn't last.

And this last time is making me really worry about the affect it's having on our 4 year old daughter.

Thursday night while I was getting our daughter ready for bed, husband was getting angry because I had mailed in a check for our property tax bill about two or three weeks before and the county's website said we still hadn't payed. He started grilling me about whether I really sent it in and didn't forget, maybe I put it in the mailbox after the mailman already came that day, so it got stolen, and he got angry because I should have hand-delivered it to the county office instead of mailing it.

Then his rant started drifting into something about how when you start running out of something important, like milk or toilet paper, you need to keep on top of these things and go to the grocery store and get some more before it totally runs out. I asked him what we were running out of, and reminded him that I've been sick the last week or so, so I haven't been able to go to the grocery store in a while. Eventually he said that he's not actually talking about groceries here, he's using it as a metaphor for something else that he can't talk about in front of our daughter.

Speaking of our daughter, meanwhile she's getting more and more upset because I'm trying to read her a bedtime story, and dad keeps ranting at me. She starts yelling at Dada to stop because she wants to go to bed. Finally my husband gets angry at her and says, "We're trying to have a grownup conversation here! We're not fighting, but if we do get into a fight, it will be your fault because you never let us have grownup conversations!"

I was in shock. He literally just told our daughter that our fighting is her fault! So then I started to lose my cool and get angry with him, and realized that his "grocery store" metaphor was about how we hadn't had sex for two weeks because I had been sick.

And here I am trying to get our daughter to bed, so I lost my temper and sarcastically said "Oh boo hoo!" Just in that second I realized the explosion was coming, and managed to grab my cell phone and hit record in time for him to start screaming at me. "YOU DUMBASS YOU PLEASE READING DUMBASS YOU'RE SO INCOMPETENT YOU CAN'T EVEN HANDLE PAYING OUR TAXES YOU'RE LIKE A LITTLE KID I NEED A GROWNUP IN MY LIFE!"

He stormed out of the room and started slamming doors and throwing things. I shut the door to the bedroom and locked it, and tried to get my daughter to calm down and get back into bed. She had been trying to go after Dada for some reason. To calm him down maybe, I don't know. She asked, "Are you locking the door so Dada can't get us?" I told her yes, and she needs to just stay in here and wait until Dada calms down.

Then I looked at my phone and saw it was still recording and stopped it. I probably should have kept it going, because then my daughter said, "And it's my fault?" I told her no, it's not her fault, it's Dada's fault.

Then my husband got the little key and unlocked the door and came in. I told him to leave, and he went over to our daughter and told her he's sorry, and then started trying to argue with me again. I asked him to please leave so I can put our daughter to bed. I locked the door again, but unlocked it a second time and I begged him to leave and ended up gently shoving him out the door (I've gotten in trouble for that before because if I shove him I'm supposedly "assaulting" him, but sometimes that's the only way I can get him to quit coming after us and leave us alone).

The next day (Friday) I had to pick up our daughter from school early because she had a nosebleed. When I got her home, she started talking about the incident from the previous night. "Did I get in trouble last night?" I told her again that the fighting wasn't her fault, it was Dada's fault because Dada doesn't know how to act right when he's mad.

During his lunch break, my husband called me on the phone. "I know you're thinking I'm the bad guy here, but from my perspective it was really both of us who were escalating the situation." I ended up losing my temper again and then hanging up on him. My daughter was right there and asked what was going on. I told her Dada is trying to have a fight again, and she asked if we have to go to the library now (going to the library is the safe place I take my daughter to when her dad is out of control and I feel we have to leave). I told her it's OK right now because Dad is at work and far away from us.

When my husband got home she immediately told him, "The fight last night was not my fault, it was your fault. That's what Mama told me. But I still love you." He tried to tell her, "It wasn't your fault, it was both Mama and Dada's faults," and then I reminded him that I had been the one telling him to stop and locking the bedroom door to try to get him to leave us alone, and he kept coming after us.

And then he spent the rest of the weekend love-bombing us. My daughter is innocent enough to take his apologies at face value, so I think she's OK for now.

Anyway, I've been thinking about the whole incident ever since, and I guess the thing that's new now is how involved my daughter is getting in all this. I'm still really angry at him telling her it was her fault (even though he later apologized - I know how empty and meaningless his apologies are). She's already been trying to defend me when he's yelling at me by yelling "DADA STOP!" at him. I shouldn't have a four year old trying to defend me from verbal abuse.

And I know that I could have handled that better, but I was tired and he wore me down. First he kept griping at me about losing the check for the property taxes, and then "Yes I know you've been sick, but you don't just let the toilet paper run out!"

Oh by the way, Friday after work he went by the county office to ask them in person about our tax bill. They told him they are behind on the mailed payments. So I didn't lose the check after all!

And I really wonder sometimes if he is actually delusional. Like, does he really think I was acting just as aggressively as he was during that whole incident?

I'm really glad I got that recording though. I finally captured him in full rage mode. After these incidents he always acts like it wasn't that big of a deal. He's told me before that this is "normal couple arguing," and that I'm just as aggressive as he is. My therapist is the one who told me to start recording him if I can. I might be able to use it as evidence in court some day, but even now it just helps me to go back and listen to it just to reassure myself that I'm not remembering things wrong.

Yesterday (after he finally got some sex so he was in a better mood) he told me that since we went so long without fighting (6 weeks), that this will be the last fight we ever have. I told him that I really don't believe that, and actually I've come to the exact opposite conclusion, I think this just shows that he's never going to stop acting like this. I even told him that I think this is "an integral part of his personality," and lashing out at me is just his go-to way to deal with stress.

So he said he's going to prove me wrong. I just wonder how many more chances he thinks I'm supposed to keep giving him.

[Gerda]

Oh well, we made it about 5 or 6 weeks being relatively peaceful, but just like I was warned, it didn't last.

And this last time is making me really worry about the affect it's having on our 4 year old daughter.

Thursday night while I was getting our daughter ready for bed, husband was getting angry because I had mailed in a check for our property tax bill about two or three weeks before and the county's website said we still hadn't payed. He started grilling me about whether I really sent it in and didn't forget, maybe I put it in the mailbox after the mailman already came that day, so it got stolen, and he got angry because I should have hand-delivered it to the county office instead of mailing it.

Then his rant started drifting into something about how when you start running out of something important, like milk or toilet paper, you need to keep on top of these things and go to the grocery store and get some more before it totally runs out. I asked him what we were running out of, and reminded him that I've been sick the last week or so, so I haven't been able to go to the grocery store in a while. Eventually he said that he's not actually talking about groceries here, he's using it as a metaphor for something else that he can't talk about in front of our daughter.

Speaking of our daughter, meanwhile she's getting more and more upset because I'm trying to read her a bedtime story, and dad keeps ranting at me. She starts yelling at Dada to stop because she wants to go to bed. Finally my husband gets angry at her and says, "We're trying to have a grownup conversation here! We're not fighting, but if we do get into a fight, it will be your fault because you never let us have grownup conversations!"

I was in shock. He literally just told our daughter that our fighting is her fault! So then I started to lose my cool and get angry with him, and realized that his "grocery store" metaphor was about how we hadn't had sex for two weeks because I had been sick.

And here I am trying to get our daughter to bed, so I lost my temper and sarcastically said "Oh boo hoo!" Just in that second I realized the explosion was coming, and managed to grab my cell phone and hit record in time for him to start screaming at me. "YOU DUMBASS YOU PLEASE READING DUMBASS YOU'RE SO INCOMPETENT YOU CAN'T EVEN HANDLE PAYING OUR TAXES YOU'RE LIKE A LITTLE KID I NEED A GROWNUP IN MY LIFE!"

He stormed out of the room and started slamming doors and throwing things. I shut the door to the bedroom and locked it, and tried to get my daughter to calm down and get back into bed. She had been trying to go after Dada for some reason. To calm him down maybe, I don't know. She asked, "Are you locking the door so Dada can't get us?" I told her yes, and she needs to just stay in here and wait until Dada calms down.

Then I looked at my phone and saw it was still recording and stopped it. I probably should have kept it going, because then my daughter said, "And it's my fault?" I told her no, it's not her fault, it's Dada's fault.

Then my husband got the little key and unlocked the door and came in. I told him to leave, and he went over to our daughter and told her he's sorry, and then started trying to argue with me again. I asked him to please leave so I can put our daughter to bed. I locked the door again, but unlocked it a second time and I begged him to leave and ended up gently shoving him out the door (I've gotten in trouble for that before because if I shove him I'm supposedly "assaulting" him, but sometimes that's the only way I can get him to quit coming after us and leave us alone).

The next day (Friday) I had to pick up our daughter from school early because she had a nosebleed. When I got her home, she started talking about the incident from the previous night. "Did I get in trouble last night?" I told her again that the fighting wasn't her fault, it was Dada's fault because Dada doesn't know how to act right when he's mad.

During his lunch break, my husband called me on the phone. "I know you're thinking I'm the bad guy here, but from my perspective it was really both of us who were escalating the situation." I ended up losing my temper again and then hanging up on him. My daughter was right there and asked what was going on. I told her Dada is trying to have a fight again, and she asked if we have to go to the library now (going to the library is the safe place I take my daughter to when her dad is out of control and I feel we have to leave). I told her it's OK right now because Dad is at work and far away from us.

When my husband got home she immediately told him, "The fight last night was not my fault, it was your fault. That's what Mama told me. But I still love you." He tried to tell her, "It wasn't your fault, it was both Mama and Dada's faults," and then I reminded him that I had been the one telling him to stop and locking the bedroom door to try to get him to leave us alone, and he kept coming after us.

And then he spent the rest of the weekend love-bombing us. My daughter is innocent enough to take his apologies at face value, so I think she's OK for now.

Anyway, I've been thinking about the whole incident ever since, and I guess the thing that's new now is how involved my daughter is getting in all this. I'm still really angry at him telling her it was her fault (even though he later apologized - I know how empty and meaningless his apologies are). She's already been trying to defend me when he's yelling at me by yelling "DADA STOP!" at him. I shouldn't have a four year old trying to defend me from verbal abuse.

And I know that I could have handled that better, but I was tired and he wore me down. First he kept griping at me about losing the check for the property taxes, and then "Yes I know you've been sick, but you don't just let the toilet paper run out!"

Oh by the way, Friday after work he went by the county office to ask them in person about our tax bill. They told him they are behind on the mailed payments. So I didn't lose the check after all!

And I really wonder sometimes if he is actually delusional. Like, does he really think I was acting just as aggressively as he was during that whole incident?

I'm really glad I got that recording though. I finally captured him in full rage mode. After these incidents he always acts like it wasn't that big of a deal. He's told me before that this is "normal couple arguing," and that I'm just as aggressive as he is. My therapist is the one who told me to start recording him if I can. I might be able to use it as evidence in court some day, but even now it just helps me to go back and listen to it just to reassure myself that I'm not remembering things wrong.

Yesterday (after he finally got some sex so he was in a better mood) he told me that since we went so long without fighting (6 weeks), that this will be the last fight we ever have. I told him that I really don't believe that, and actually I've come to the exact opposite conclusion, I think this just shows that he's never going to stop acting like this. I even told him that I think this is "an integral part of his personality," and lashing out at me is just his go-to way to deal with stress.

So he said he's going to prove me wrong. I just wonder how many more chances he thinks I'm supposed to keep giving him.

[ForeverDad]

Can you copy your recordings and keep them in a safe place where he has no physical or electronic access?  Many of us record and sometimes would be convinced by the other to delete the recordings.  Yes, I caved and deleted too.  Been there, cdone that.  At first.  Learn from our experience, don't delete, archive them, maybe with a trusted friend or relative too.

I found that recordings were helpful with the professionals surrounding family court, court itself had little time to listen but did listen to the observations and conclusions of the supporting professionals.

[Gerda]

I haven't backed them up anywhere yet. They're just saved on my phone. I move them to a separate folder that's password protected, though that's partly because I don't want them mixed in with videos of my daughter opening her Christmas presents and stuff like that.

I know I really should back them up somewhere, but I'm not very tech savvy, so I haven't decided how I will do that yet.

But I most definitely am NOT deleting them! Even if I can never use them as legal evidence, I cherish having them just to keep myself sane. There are so many incidents I really wish I had recorded because my husband always downplays how bad they were later, and/or claims I was the real aggressor there and things like that. I really don't know if he's intentionally gaslighting me or really is delusional and believes what he says. He's even said a few times, "I wish we had a camera in here to record you so everyone can see how you're acting!"

So it really helps to have them just to listen to them every now and again and remind myself that no, I'm not the crazy one here. It really did happen the way I remember it. I'm not exaggerating things or making things up.

It serves a similar purpose to my journal. I've started writing journal entries for every abusive incident. It really helps when my husband starts to distort things, like how long it has really been since the last incident. I didn't get this part recorded the last time, but he was saying it had been "three months" since we last had a fight, and was suggesting that I'd been withholding sex from him almost that entire time, so that just proves that my lack of sexual desire for him has nothing at all to do with his behavior, it really is something I do just to be mean to him.

(I also have to keep journal entries documenting every time we have sex so he can't distort that. We've had more than one conversation where he'll start complaining about how little sex he gets, and that's the source of all our relationship problems, and I'll say, "But didn't we just have sex two days ago?" Sometimes that will shut him up, sometimes he'll still complain that he's not getting enough because he wants sex every day, or he'll complain that when we did have sex that last time I didn't do exactly what he wanted or I wasn't enthusiastic enough, but at least I can catch him when he's saying he hasn't  had sex in weeks or months when it's really only been a few days.)

I also fantasize about using these recordings when the anticipated smear campaign happens when I do divorce him. I just know he's going to try to tell everyone that I was the one who abused him. It would be great to be able to say, "Actually, I have recordings of our fights. Would you like me to have people listen to them so they can see for themselves who was abusing whom here?"

I'm not sure if actually doing that would be a good idea, but it's something I think about.

[ForeverDad]

Many of us have faced intimacy issues.  Here's a post in a topic in which I participated.  My contribution was a sad one but even, years later, a little shake-the-head humorous.

15years makes a good point: the “sex problem” stems from deeper issues in the complainant and/or the relationship.

Sexual intimacy lost any sense of connection and pleasure for me, as it became a *chore* rather than lovemaking and I felt used and depersonalized.

I had been married for over a decade and we did have frequent intimacy.  Then we had a child, I had hoped it would make her less unhappy, but it blew her prior issues to new highs, especially rampant rants and rages.  And one of the consequences was that intimacy became relatively rare.  CF mentioned it became a *chore* but for me it became repeatedly sabotaged and eventually a *transaction*.  All too soon she was my Ex.

This reminded me that my ex, in the final couple years, would give hints in the morning that later at night she'd be willing.  But during that day or evening she was sure to find something to get upset about or do something that ruined the mood for me, so no fun that day.  And in the final months she exclaimed, "I feel like a prostitute, I ought to get paid!"  I didn't reply verbally but told myself, "Well, you sure wouldn't earn much..."

Disclaimer, besides the dysfunction we face, this may also be undertones of male versus female perceptions.

[Gerda]

Speaking of being a prostitute, one deal my husband came up with is that every time we have sex, he'll put $500 into our daughter's college savings account.

I have no idea what the going rate is for that sort of thing, so I don't know if that makes me an expensive prostitute or a cheap one.

Thing is, I don't think him paying for it is making it any more frequent than it was before. I'd have sex with him anyway just because I'm afraid of saying no to him. I just saw what happens if I get the flu and he goes a couple of weeks without it.

I still think the way it works is that sex is his only way he feels loved, and forcing me to have sex with him is somehow equivalent to forcing me to love him. I don't know if this is a typical BPD thing, but it really seems like my husband thinks he should be able to control my actual thoughts and feelings about everything, and if he needs to he can do that through force. He also forces me to hug him and kiss him (he'll actually physically corner me and grab me), and he gets way more like that right after a fight, like this is his way of "correcting" the situation.

The thing is, I know his "affection" has nothing to do with actually caring about me as a person. It's about making himself feel better. It's about reassuring himself that I won't ever leave him and everything's OK and I'm not really mad at him, even if hours before he was screaming at me that I'm incompetent and immature and a dumbass. I'm supposed to still find him sexually desirable even after he's threatened to punch me in the face and put me in the hospital.