I’m DONE with him, so why can’t I kick him out?

[JazzSinger]

I know my HwuBPD has made my life a living hell, so why can’t I tell him to get out?

I’m not leaving — This was originally my apartment, and I love it. He moved in here. Now, he needs to GO.

But I worry that without him, I won’t be able to support myself, financially.  In fact, I’ve done the math.  I KNOW that barring a miracle, I will need additional financial support, if I throw him out. I will definitely need to put the apartment up for sale, sooner rather than later, and I will have to give half the proceeds of the sale to him.  Then, I’d be hard pressed to find a studio apartment that I can purchase for myself, with what’s left.

Also, I’m just a few years away from turning 80.  Many of my closest friends and relatives, including my dear sister, have passed away.  My support system is very thin. 

But are these just excuses? Or are they valid reasons for staying with him, but keeping firmer boundaries? I am confused.  People tell me I’d be better off living under a bridge, than living with him. People tell me just I’m afraid. Well, yes.  I am afraid.  I fear being stressed out about money. I fear being penniless, in my old age.

Still, I dream of living on my own.  It feels good.  I fantasize that somehow, I’ll be taken care of, and I won’t have to struggle, financially. And I’ll be FREE of him.

The only saving grace is that he no longer abuses me 24/7. In fact, ever since I blew up at him and set firmer boundaries, he’s only tried to get a rise out me a couple of times in the past 3 months, and it didn’t work. I stood my ground. I didn’t take the bait. I restated my boundaries. He knows I’m DONE. I’ll enlist the security team  in our co-op, or I’ll call the police, if he frightens me.

I feel empowered.  He can no longer gaslight me.  I’m not falling for any of his tricks. Im not afraid of him. I SEE him.  I’m appalled, disgusted, and disappointed with what I see.   I have no love for him now.  Can’t stand him.  Yet, we’re still living under the same roof. 

So, yeah.  I’m conflicted. 

But I am stronger.  So strong, that he’s holding back. He’s afraid to attack me. He’s walking on eggshells. I’ve turned the tables on him. I’ve been warned that he will eventually comeback with a vengeance.   When/if that time comes, I’ll call the police.  And if I am forced to shut him out and take a vow of poverty, I’ll do what I have to do. Indeed the meantime, I’m focused on self-care.  I’m getting out and doing things with friends, as well as on my own.  I don’t go down crazy rabbit holes with him.  Still, I wish I could just tell him to get out. 

Indeed, I’m confused.  Thank God for therapy.  I’m also very grateful for this community. 

JazzSinger

[TelHill]

I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation.

It may depend how your h is helping you financially.  Has he paid for any part of this property before or now? Is the deed in both your names or just yours? Is he helping you with routine bills and food/clothing?

If he has not contributed much to payments for the property, I'd go to a lawyer to see if you can keep your apartment. I assume you are in a community property state but there may be laws to help you you if he's contributed very little. If you can,  you'd have to get a roommate and cut your budget to a bare bones one to save money in hopes of not needing a roommate forever.

If this is not the case, detach yourself from him. Sleep in different beds and spend as much time away from him as you possibly can. I did that with my ex-h during the last years of our marriage.

You may want to consider a 12 step program like Codependent's Anonymous to work on coping with an abusive person to live a more joyful life.

[Pinkcamellias]

Hi Jazz
I would consult with a divorce attorney and see what your options are? Apart from your condo becoming your marital home , has your husband contributed to any upkeep or upgrades ? Is he on the Deed? Where there is a will there is a way. Downsizing is not ideal but if it gives you peace of mind it may be worth it .

[TelHill]

FWIW,

I had DV from my ex-h and could prove years of financial malfeasance. He contributed less than 1% to the bills and downpayment of my property. His name was on  the deed though.  I endured DV for many years in my marriage and finally called the police. He was arrested.

With all the above and having my family law attorney help me, I was awarded 100% of the home in a community property state.

Good luck and I hope things work out for you.

[JazzSinger]

I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation.

It may depend how your h is helping you financially.  Has he paid for any part of this property before or now? Is the deed in both your names or just yours? Is he helping you with routine bills and food/clothing?

Hi TelHill,

The answer is yes, to all of the above. 

Since I posted, I decided to back my own decision not to throw him out (for now).  I think living with him is the lesser of two evils.  I am past the age of being able to earn more money.  It is what it is.  As difficult as it is to live with him, I think it’s the lesser of two evils.  If I’m being honest, I’d have a hard time lowering my standard of living at this stage in my life.  I’m just going to have to find more coping mechanisms. 

…detach yourself from him. Sleep in different beds and spend as much time away from him as you possibly can. I did that with my ex-h during the last years of our marriage.

You may want to consider a 12 step program like Codependent's Anonymous to work on coping with an abusive person to live a more joyful life.

I’ve been detaching as much as possible.  I have my own life, my own friends, my own interests outside of the home.  At home, I maintain firm boundaries.  To some extent, it’s like I’m living with a stranger anyway.  I never realized he could be so evil. 

Thanks for the advice on Codependents Anonymous. I’ll check out their website. 

And thanks so much for everything you shared. . 

Jazz

[JazzSinger]

Hi Jazz
I would consult with a divorce attorney and see what your options are? Apart from your condo becoming your marital home , has your husband contributed to any upkeep or upgrades ? Is he on the Deed? Where there is a will there is a way. Downsizing is not ideal but if it gives you peace of mind it may be worth it .

Pinkcamellias,

I’ve already consulted a divorce attorney.  He said I’d  have nothing to gain financially, if I were to tell him to get out.  In fact, I’d have to live more modestly.

My H is on the deed and he has made contributions to everything.  I’ve thought about selling and downsizing(without him), but I would have to involve him in the entire process.  Also, I live in a very expensive city, but  I got in early and our monthly exposure is well under market value.  I’d have to move and start a new life elsewhere — New doctors, new friends, etc. Not a good idea for a woman who is pushing 80. 

I’m lucky to be here in a wonderful city where there lists of things to do is endless — I’m never bored. 

The divorce  lawyer’s exact words were, “You’re stuck”

But I don’t feel trapped.  I am making my life as interesting and fun as possible, and I’m detaching from my H more and more.  And I’m in therapy. It’s not easy, but I’ll make it — One day at a time.

Thanks so much.

JazzSinger

[JazzSinger]

FWIW,

I had DV from my ex-h and could prove years of financial malfeasance. He contributed less than 1% to the bills and downpayment of my property. His name was on  the deed though.  I endured DV for many years in my marriage and finally called the police. He was arrested.

With all the above and having my family law attorney help me, I was awarded 100% of the home in a community property state.

Good luck and I hope things work out for you.

Thanks so much, TelHill.

This is encouraging. My H contributed zero to the down payment — I bought the apartment before we married.  But we did a refi together, to renovate the kitchen, and his name went on the deed at that point.  Nevertheless, I’ve been paying the mortgage and the maintenance— he’s not paid a penny on that, though he covers other bills in the home.  I was told that everything is marital property, and the fact that I’ve been the one paying means nothing.  Maybe I’ll try a different divorce lawyer. 

Thanks again for sharing.

Jazz

[Notwendy]

I think it depends on the state laws and circumstances. If a parent isn’t in the workforce but takes care of children and the home- the law would not allow that parent to be homeless on the basis of who pays the mortgage. Likewise I don’t think the law would allow an elderly person to be put out of their home in the case of divorce. I’m not an attorney so I don’t know for sure. Marital property is handled differently in different states.

Another scenario might be if your H’s care needs exceed your ability to care for him and he needs to be in a care facility. If you are consulting a lawyer- add an elder care attorney to that to protect your assets in the event this happens and a Medicaid plan in the event he needs it to protect your investment in your home.

If it is in your best interest financially to stay married - emotional distance and having your own interests may be the best of the options.

[Notwendy]

Another angle to look at is if there is elder abuse. 

This is a category in itself. If the situation is so abusive to you that you can not continue living in the same space- that is something to consider but I don't know what the options would be for both of you.

 

[JazzSinger]

I think it depends on the state laws and circumstances. If a parent isn’t in the workforce but takes care of children and the home- the law would not allow that parent to be homeless on the basis of who pays the mortgage. Likewise I don’t think the law would allow an elderly person to be put out of their home in the case of divorce. I’m not an attorney so I don’t know for sure. Marital property is handled differently in different states.

Another scenario might be if your H’s care needs exceed your ability to care for him and he needs to be in a care facility. If you are consulting a lawyer- add an elder care attorney to that to protect your assets in the event this happens and a Medicaid plan in the event he needs it to protect your investment in your home.

If it is in your best interest financially to stay married - emotional distance and having your own interests may be the best of the options.

Hi NotWendy,

I could consult another divorce lawyer, but my sense is that it wouldn’t change anything.  I’d be pretty shaky, financially, if we part.  I’d never be homeless, but I’d be “house poor.”  Also, I’ve explored elder abuse. The only advice/consultation I can afford is whatever I can get from the Department of Aging in my city.

If the dementia gets to a point where I can’t handle it, I’ll need to first have a discussion with our son, who lives in a different city and is in much better financial shape than I am.  We’ll figure out the next steps together.  And indeed, we may need to look into Medicaid at some point, because I won’t be able to handle him if the dementia becomes severe. Medicare only covers 100 days in a nursing home. 

For now, I’m maintaining my boundaries, and I’m living my life as fully as possible.

Thanks so much for your input.

JazzSinger

[Pook075]

Hey Jazz,

As you said, the tides have turned and he's now walking on eggshells. That doesn't happen without a realization that there's something off within.  He may never say it out loud and that's okay, because deep down he knows that how he acted was wrong.

I guess my question for you is that now things are better, what have you done to improve the marriage relationship?  I know that probably sounds like a strange question- he's the abuser.  Only, he's not abusing anymore and he's respecting your boundaries. 

While your friends point out that it's only "for now", I'd second-guess their advice to some extent since it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy.  If your husband is a lousy person and you treat him like a lousy person, even when he's not being lousy, then what will happen?  Of course he'll eventually get back to being lousy.

This is actually an opportunity to show him some grace and try to reset the marriage.  And that probably sounds crazy, I know, but what do you have to lose when you feel stuck and there's no other answers?  You can hate him and be miserable, or you can attempt to find a happy medium where you maintain strict boundaries but also love him.

I'm sure I'm in the minority here and very few will agree with me.  But i do think it's worth a shot when there's no other options.  Maybe your husband is a total jerk, but the guy you fell in love with is still in there somewhere as well.  Find that guy once again and let go of everything else.

[Notwendy]

The attorney wouldn't be for divorce. There are attorneys who specialize in elder law and Medicaid planning. Medicaid has qualifying laws. If it's even a possibilty that your H may need to have nursing home care- beyond the 100 days, it helps to know what to do to plan ahead if someone has assets.

It also would be to know how to protect your assets in the event something (hopefully not) would happen to you. In your state, the assets would go to your H. You mentioned you have invested the most in your house, and that your son is in stable financial situation- this is good. He sounds like a reliable person to help manage the finances if that was needed but it needs to be set up with an elder law attorney because, to avoid disqualifying for Medicaid if that were needed and to avoid your H mismanaging them if they went to him.

My parents didn't do this. BPD mother got control of all assets and mismanaged them, to her own detriment. This was a stressful situation as her resources were limited at a time she needed them, and she did not cooperate with a budget or plan. Several trustworthy family members offered to help her with a budget but she refused to cooperate.

You also want to keep sufficient assets for yourself and your own needs should your H need nursing home care so having a Medicaid compliant plan for this could be helpful.

The attorney might also be able to advise you of your options if your H became too abusive for you to manage.

Something to keep in mind if you feel the need for consultation with one.

[Notwendy]

I'm sure I'm in the minority here and very few will agree with me.  But i do think it's worth a shot when there's no other options.  Maybe your husband is a total jerk, but the guy you fell in love with is still in there somewhere as well.  Find that guy once again and let go of everything else.

I don't think it's a disagreement but that, if love could have made a difference to my BPD mother- it would have done that. I observed my father doing everything he possibly could for my BPD mother for decades. It made a difference for her materially- to have what she needed but emotionally, it didn't change her perceptions due to her BPD. 

He did love her. He was smitten with the beautiful woman he fell in love with, and at times, that woman was in there somewhere. However, she also was one of the most cared for and simultaneously troubled (by BPD) people I knew. Somehow she would perceive good intentions and caring from a victim perspective. She'd find something wrong or hurtful in what was being done for her or given to her- and see it as someone hurting her or disappointing her. Being verbally and emotionally abusive was her self defense.

It was crazy making and confusing- to do something nice and receive anger as the response.

The tragic aspect of BPD is that the closer one is to the person, the more these perceptions play out. So it's the people who loved her the most that elcited her responses. I felt envious of her friends who could have a better relationship with her but learned to understand that it was because they weren't as close to her that this was possible.

In your story Pook, it seems you get along better with your ex wife now that you two aren't married. In this context- this makes sense. She can perceive you differently because you aren't her closest and most intimate partner. It doesn't mean you didn't love her enough. I think you did actually. Maybe you made some mistakes you'd do differently. I think every person who was ever married can say that- we learn as we go along. But these alone aren't the cause of the dynamics in the marriage. It's that the closest, most intimate relationships are more prone to dysfunction.

Still, everyone is accountable for our own actions and how we treat other people. I agree- no matter how angry or hurt we feel, it doesn't give us license to be hurtful to someone else. I agree with your suggestion to make the best of it, and to not allow anger and resentment to contribute to the conflict. It may be more like making lemonade out of lemons but there's not enough sugar. Still- less conflict, kinder behavior- can help the climate.

I don't think one can be expected to love someone who also abuses them- love them in the sense of being close and loving and vulnerable. I think my mother wanted that but it wasn't an emotionally safe situation to do this. However, I could extend love in a more universal sense.  How do I want to behave towards an elderly and mentally ill person. I could still protect myself and have boundaries and treat her decently. Did I do this perfectly? No. There were times I did lose my temper, get frustrated, but I still tried.

I could also examine how I perceived her. The mother who we were afraid of as kids (and still remained fearful of to some extent) was now a frail elderly person. She could still be verbally and emotionally hurtful but as adults, the relationship is different. For Jazz- your H may still be a jerk, the jerk he was when he was younger and able to hurt you, but it seems now, he's more dependent and less powerful. It is possible to lessen the conflict, try to find some compassion, albeit it's difficult when one is feeling hurt and angry. But doing what you can to decrease conflict in the home will benefit both of you. It doesn't seem fair that you'd have to do this, but you are the more emotionally capable one. If your H is also experiencing dementia, he may not be able to manage his emotions. You can and should have boundaries when it comes to abusive behavior and also decide if he ever needs more assistance than you can provide.

Venting to friends may feel good but I don't think friends know the whole of any situation. They will take your side because they are your friends. They will tell you to leave because they see your side but truly- they don't have all the information to be able to advise you. Even with the close view of my parents' relationship, I could not fully understand it.

For Pook, I think you have made the best of your situation. It's possible that being in the position of husband, your wife could not fully perceive your love for her but as a friend, she can, and this is a positive. You do show her love - in a different way and in a position where she can receive it.