Has anyone gotten to the other side of alienation and high-conflict co-parenting

[Bara]

I’m in the middle of a very painful high-conflict co-parenting situation with my child’s mother, who shows a lot of BPD-type patterns. I’m not looking to diagnose her or turn this into a venting thread, but I am struggling with the emotional reality of watching my child get pulled into adult conflict.

There has been a pattern of instability, blame-shifting, control, accusations, schedule interference, and attempts to frame me as unsafe or harmful. Lately it feels like my child is being put in the middle more directly. I’m seeing signs of fear, obligation, and guilt being created around loving me, spending time with me, or having a normal relationship with me and the people in my life.

I’m doing my best to stay calm, document everything, communicate through appropriate channels, and keep my home emotionally safe and consistent. I don’t speak negatively about his mother to him. I try to validate his feelings without putting adult issues on him. But honestly, it is incredibly painful and scary to feel like the other parent is actively trying to damage the bond.

I’m also moving through the court process now, and I’m wondering if anyone here has actually gotten to the other side of this.

For those who dealt with alienation or a BPD/high-conflict co-parent:

Did court help create stability?
Did having orders, structured custody, parenting apps, reunification therapy, custody evaluations, parenting coordinators, or other safeguards actually make a difference?
How did your child eventually come through the FOG?
Were they able to see reality over time without you having to “prove” everything to them?
How did you maintain your bond when the other parent was working against it?
What helped your child feel safe loving both parents, even if the other parent made that hard?

I know every situation is different, and I’m not looking for legal advice. I’m really looking for stories from people who have been through this and made it to a more stable place.

Right now I’m trying to hold onto hope that if I stay consistent, loving, calm, and present, my child will eventually be able to feel the truth of our relationship despite the conflict around him.

I’d really appreciate hearing from anyone who has been there.

[CC43]

Hi there,

I think you're asking many of the right questions here.  Though I haven't been in your situation, someone very close to me has, and I understand how trying and painful it can be.  Here are some ideas for you.

"I’m doing my best to stay calm, document everything, communicate through appropriate channels, and keep my home emotionally safe and consistent. I don’t speak negatively about his mother to him. I try to validate his feelings without putting adult issues on him."

Yes, yes, yes.  I think a consistently loving, stable and caring environment is critical for your child.  Not speaking negatively about the other parent is also important.  Even if the other parent is disordered, your kid probably still wants to love her, and be loved by her.  You don't want to get in the way of that.  You want your kid to be a kid, and not be concerned about adult issues, let alone acrimony and fighting.

"I’m also moving through the court process now, and I’m wondering if anyone here has actually gotten to the other side of this."

Yes, but it took a few years and came at a high legal cost, because the disordered parent was uncooperative, lied to the court and was also able to "pull themselves together" when interviewed by CPS.

"Did court help create stability?"

Yes, eventually, because visitation time with the disordered parent was reduced and subject to conditions (e.g. supervised visits only, no driving the kids), because the disordered parent was severely dysfunctional, even though he tried to hide it from CPS.  Before the divorce, his ex over-functioned for him, but without that support, he spiralled.

"Did having orders, structured custody, parenting apps, reunification therapy, custody evaluations, parenting coordinators, or other safeguards actually make a difference?"

Yes, eventually.  The parenting apps help with legal documentation (keeping a record of visitation dates, child events, medical care, etc.).  In theory, communication about childcare was supposed to happen over the apps and be limited to logistics only.  In practice, however, the disordered parent didn't comply--he did not input any information and generally did not consult the app for logistical details.  Instead, he tended to communicate directly with his ex, usually via nasty texts, and he'd miss child events on a regular basis.  This was hard on the kids because when they were with dad, they typically missed out on their soccer practices, cub scout outings or other events important to them, because dad couldn't/wouldn't execute.  Note that dad was unemployed and didn't have anything else to do on visitation days, yet despite his free time, he just couldn't execute on visitation very well.  He probably skipped a third to half of visitation with no notice.  Imagine how that made the kids feel.

CPS was involved during two separate cycles to evaluate custody, and ultimately recommended restrictions on custody time for the disordered parent.  I think courts are unlikely to rule against the recommendations of a CPS expert who did the work and wrote up a detailed report.  Since the court ruled that parenting time with the disordered parent must be supervised (e.g. by Grandma), the children are much better cared for these days.

"How did your child eventually come through the FOG?"

Today, the two girls are sick of their dad; they barely tolerate him.  The son (same sex as the disordered parent) is very conflicted.  He wants to love his dad, but he has a hard time accepting that his dad is so low functioning and mean most of the time.

"Were they able to see reality over time without you having to “prove” everything to them?"

Absolutely, though it's really hard on them because they want to love and be loved by their dad.

"How did you maintain your bond when the other parent was working against it?"

Just like you're doing, through a loving, stable home.  Also, healthy rules are in place (e.g. bedtimes, homework, age-appropriate chores, meals shared together as a family, responsibility for keeping rooms tidy, limits on screen time, one-on-one time, etc.), because kids need a healthy structure, routine and connection, ESPECIALLY when life with the disordered parent is the opposite.

It's true that after any visitation with disordered dad, the kids tend to be out-of-sorts for a day or two.  It's partly because of the rupture with normal routines, but also because of big emotions in dealing with dad (e.g. criticisms, insults, general disappointment, lots of stress).  But I think after a brief re-adjustment period, the kids get back to normal.

"What helped your child feel safe loving both parents, even if the other parent made that hard?"

This is a tough one, because the disordered dad is very mean and selfish.  Mom explains to the kids that deep down dad loves them, but he's just not feeling well right now, and since he's not well, he can't show them how much he loves them.

***

I'll wrap up with another piece of advice.  If your ex is disordered, dysfunctional and unreliable, any custody arrangement and divorce decree should assume non-compliance on her part.  In other words, wherever possible, there should be a plan of action if and when your ex doesn't comply.  Here's an example:  in a "normal" co-parenting arrangement based on fairness, kids might be dropped off/picked up at a neutral location halfway between residences.  That sounds fair and reasonable, right?  But it might not be if one parent is disordered and unreliable.  In practice, that looks like driving to a parking lot and then waiting 30, 45 minutes, wondering if the disordered parent is going to come pick up the kids.  Turning around after waiting 45 minutes might look like "interfering with parenting time."  Meanwhile, the kids are starving, increasingly grumpy and let down when the disordered parent is terribly late or a no-show.  I think "fairness" needs to take the child's needs and parental non-performance into consideration.  A "fairer" arrangement for the child might be, the disordered parent picks up the kids at your home, and if they are 15 or more minutes late, they forfeit the parenting time.  Or maybe, the disordered parent picks up the child after school, but if she's a no-show, the child takes the bus home to you as usual, and the parenting time is forfeited.  In other words, you need to factor in non-compliance contingencies.

Hope that helps a little.

[Pook075]

I have personally been through this as well, and I watched my brother-in-law do it completely wrong with his divorce years earlier.  In his situation, the kids were used against him in every possible way to harm him.  The disordered parent would change custody arrangements without warning, they would bad mouth dad to the kids, they'd send the kids with rags as clothing and scream if they didn't come back with nice outfits- the list of psychological warfare was endless.

Each time, my brother went back to court, all kinds of terrible things were said about him, and somehow there was so much back and forth, the judge would discredit most of it.  My brother had documentation, mind you, while his ex didn't since she was making it all up.  And each of these trips to court would cost thousands of dollars.  Eventually, my brother-in-law stopped fighting to see his kids and missed out on their teenage years when his ex finally convinced the kids how toxic and terrible he was.

So when I went to divorce my BPD ex several years ago, I decided that there was no way I was going to do that.  I was respectful for my ex and told her every time we talked, that we couldn't be like her brother and we always had to put the kids needs above our differences.  Even if we divorce, even if we re-marry, we absolutely have to continue being mom and dad as one cohesive unit.  And eventually, over time, my ex completely agreed...we had to find peace between us so we could still be parents.

Mind you, I wasn't creating the chaos- she left me for another man.  She lied to everyone about me and caused countless chaos.  But because of the kids, I was determined to let all of that go and make the kids our priority.  It was definitely hard and it took endless amounts of patience for awhile, but I'm so thankful for it.  My ex and I can talk about anything today and we look out for each other while looking out for the kids.

It might sound dumb- you're getting a divorce to get away from all that stuff.  I get it.  But as parents, she will be in your life regardless and you can be like my brother-in-law (which is what most of the world does) spending $5-15k a year in lawyers for court hearings or you can take a different path. 

I would advise that different path, finding common ground is always the best answer if it's possible.  And today, it may not be possible- that's okay.  There will be a time when that is possible though and I hope you'll at least consider it.

I spent around $250 on divorce by filing it myself, zero in court fees, zero in custody arrangements, zero in alimony.  We split our assets 50/50 and because she trusted me completely by then, I handled everything on our behalf.  The judge warned her in court, she should really, really have legal counsel before waiving her rights, but we were okay by that point because I made it my life's mission to make us okay for the kid's sake. 

So that one small shift in thinking changed everything- she can't be the enemy and the mother of my kids if I want the next few decades to be peaceful.  I had to choose just like you have to choose.  And I 100% made the right choice.

[ForeverDad]

Pook's cooperation with his ex is not the typical story here.  But, as he wrote, finding common ground is always the best answer... if it's possible.  You won't know if it's possible until you try.

In my case, my seeking to have a child after a decade of marriage - in an effort the make my ex less troubled - backfired.  Looking back, having a child triggered her childhood FOO issues and made it worse.  As a husband life was slowly getting worse, but as a father I was compared to her family abuser.

I was always the considerate one but it seemed to just egg on more allegations.  We were in and out of court for 8 years until the court order (its version of a Boundary) was fully reversed.  She started with (the default for mothers) temp custody and temp majority time.  It ended with me having full custody and majority parenting time (during the school year).

My main regret about our time in court is how slowly the court addressed the obvious conflict and disparagement.  Eight years?  I've come to realize court prefer waiting on the parents to reach a consensus rather than the court stepping and making the Decisions.  Though I know many here had even tougher trials and tribulations.

[Bara]

I really appreciate everyone sharing their stories; it helps to know I’m not alone in this.

I want nothing more than to co-parent peacefully, but my ex’s hyper-focus on 'knowing best' and her insistence on diagnosing our 6-year-old with neurodivergence has made that nearly impossible. Lately, she has moved from being difficult to actively obstructing my relationship with our son.

After two years of a consistent 'status quo' schedule, she’s decided she is now the sole gatekeeper. She’s justifying withholding him by saying 'he doesn’t want to go,' and she’s started circumventing school pickups by keeping him home or showing up early to intercept him. I refuse to make a scene in front of him, but it's heartbreaking.

My ex-parte request was denied because he isn't in 'immediate danger,' and now I’m just stuck waiting for the custody hearing while she dictates the rules and builds a distorted narrative. I’m following the advice to not involve him in the 'grown-up talk,' but I feel defeated and I just miss my son.

[ForeverDad]

If you already have a custody and parenting schedule order and you ex is not complying with it, then the court will likely confirm it if your ex does not have convincing substantiated documentation and not just hearsay or "I am the Mother".  Yes, she is the mother, but you're the father.  You're not just chump change.

She may have decided for herself that she has authority over you, but family court is The Authority.  However, court also seems reluctant to put its foot down quickly and does seem to make the smallest changes to existing orders.

Do you have a lawyer?  Will your ex appear with one?

If you have only a brief hearing scheduled, such as for a half hour, then not much may get decided.  You may need to ask for a Custody Evaluation where the evaluator digs past the surface claims and looks deeper into the parenting of both parents.  Mine was done over a course of 4-5 months by a local child psychologist who was trusted totally by the court.  His initial report was barely 11 pages but it packed a punch.

Be aware that not all custody evaluators are proficient or unbiased.  Some are newer professionals, try to write books to submit to the court and charge high fees to match.  So if you decide to ask for a CE then do similar to how you would choose a counselor for your children in a contested scenario... take the time to vet the ones available in your area, make a short list of ones who are respected and bring that to court.  Why to court?  Court may like it better if both parents are involved in the selection.  By being ready to offer your vetted list to the court for the ex to make the final selection, then you may avoid the risk of your ex choosing one who may be partial, biased, gullible or inexperienced.

[Pook075]

I want nothing more than to co-parent peacefully, but my ex’s hyper-focus on 'knowing best' and her insistence on diagnosing our 6-year-old with neurodivergence has made that nearly impossible. Lately, she has moved from being difficult to actively obstructing my relationship with our son.

Sometimes with my BPD daughter (who's late 20's), I've found it easier to lean into stuff like that instead of trying to argue it.  He's neurodivergent?  We'd better get him tested right away since he should be in specialized classes that will help him learn better social skills.  Can we get an appointment with a specialist this week?  There's no time to waste, nothing but the best care for our son.

This forces my BPD to either double down or back off, but either way it leads to professional help.  It also creates a paper trail of your son being tested, which can later be handy to have in court for her "parenting style" of making up nonsense.  And if he does actually happen to be neurodivergent, then it's good to recognize that early.  Either way though, it removes her excuses from the table because you're encouraging what she's saying in in the child's best interests.  Either she's right or she's not.

[PeteWitsend]

My answers in bold below.

...
For those who dealt with alienation or a BPD/high-conflict co-parent:

Did court help create stability?  No. Court isn't going to change a pwBPD's behavior.  Having objective rules in place can help, but only to the extent that they can limit the amount of time the kids are exposed to the BPD parent.  A parent hellbent on badmouthing the other parent and trying to alienate them from their kids will do that.  They might not succeed, but no court order is going to stop them from trying.  Courts simply don't police behavior that closely.

Did having orders, structured custody, parenting apps, reunification therapy, custody evaluations, parenting coordinators, or other safeguards actually make a difference?I had orders in place, and put a defined child therapist for my daughter in the divorce decree and that helped.  But like I said, BPDxw still engaged in attempts to alienate her from me.  We used a parenting app for communications, which helps, but like I said, she will always be difficult to deal with.  I did not do a custody evaluation or any of the other things

How did your child eventually come through the FOG? Surprisingly well, as far as I can tell.  There were some rough times when she was young, but it would usually only be the first day she was with me, and by the 2nd day, she was happy and it was like nothing happened.

Were they able to see reality over time without you having to “prove” everything to them? Yes. And she implicitly trusts me and my word now, and believes her mom is dishonest and told me that directly.
How did you maintain your bond when the other parent was working against it? I'll describe this below

What helped your child feel safe loving both parents, even if the other parent made that hard? Let them make up their own mind.  Be there to guide them, but don't get frustrated and don't sink to the BPD-parent's level.

I know every situation is different, and I’m not looking for legal advice. I’m really looking for stories from people who have been through this and made it to a more stable place.

Right now I’m trying to hold onto hope that if I stay consistent, loving, calm, and present, my child will eventually be able to feel the truth of our relationship despite the conflict around him.

I’d really appreciate hearing from anyone who has been there.

So the best advice I received was from my daughter's therapist.  A couple times I expressed my frustration with how BPDxw was behaving, and my concern she was attempting to drive a wedge between my daughter and I.  He would not allow me to vent, or take my side, or anything like that, but he was just say that if what I described was happening, it would eventually lead my daughter to not trust her mom.  He was right, even though in the immediate time, this didn't seem to address the urgency I felt.  But he was right. 

Basically he said that kids are smart, and earlier than we give them credit for they're making up their own minds about the world and how things are.  And if one parent is trying to influence their perception and going against what they see with their own eyes, it's going to cause a loss of trust.   

Be there to validate your kid(s)' feelings and help them understand things, but don't bad mouth the other parent, and don't force your kids to get in between your fights; don't drag them into it.

I'll relate some of my own experience below:
About a year after I separated, I got a message from BPDxw that said parental alienation is wrong, and I shouldn't try to do it to our daughter.  Well... I knew her well enough by that point to know that if she was accusing me of doing something, it was because she herself was doing it.

Sure enough I noticed around this time that when I'd pick my daughter up for weekends, I'd notice she'd say random phrases like "I just don't know how a man could just leave his family like that."  I'd ask what she meant, and she'd say "mama keeps saying that."  And then she would say things like she didn't like coming to my house.  I asked why, and she said "You don't make me good food."  I asked what she ate at her mom's house, and it was, sure enough(!), the same things I was making for her.  When I pointed this out, she said she didn't know that.

Then she said one time "Someday I'll be able to choose and I won't have to go to your house anymore!"  I asked why she thought that, and she said "because you didn't want to be a dad and left"... when I said that wasn't true, and I stayed close by because I wanted to see her and would always be her dad, she said "Now I don't know who to believe." Remembering what the therapist said, I responded, "You don't have to believe anyone, you can see who's doing what and decide for yourself."

Like you said above, I would not dwell on these events with her though.  My goal was to give her a safe, loving home, and have fun with her when we were together, and let her be a kid. I think this worked. 

Another time, my daughter asked me "Is grandma a witch?"  Now, I knew where this was coming from... during our marriage, BPDxw had made my mom out to be this villain (the amount of insane things she said and did to try to isolate me from my parents and family could be a whole thread on its own, so I won't digress here).  But remembering the advice I received asked "Why do you think that?"  Sure enough she said "Mama said grandma's a witch."  I asked her if she thought that was true, and she said "No," and then I said it was okay for her to love her grandma; she had her own relationship with her, and her mom had her own opinions and it was okay to not agree with them.  She nodded, and that was the last I ever heard about that (7 years ago). 

More recently, she mentioned her mom and her BF were always fighting in the house, and when I was like "Yeah, that sounds like your mom!"  She asked me why we got divorced, and I could see she wanted my opinion, and wanted to hear it all directly.  I told her everything.  A couple times she'd note that her mom still did this or that all the time.  I think I spoke for about 1/2 hour, and after that she seemed really happy.  I felt like she had figured a lot of this out, but wasn't sure, and when I confirmed her suspicions about her mom, she felt relieved. 

My daughter's almost a teenager now, so I feel like I weathered the storm.  She's started saying she wants to live at my house most of the time, and so we might have to do that in the next couple years, although... I don't know how it's going to go down.  I saw an attorney, and she ballparked the cost of a full trial to flip custody, including a custody evaluation, at close to $60,000-$70,000.  Yikes.  At that rate, I might just see if we could agree to flip custody, but I keep paying her child support. 

It's never easy when you're coparenting with a pwBPD, but it does end.  I'm down to single-digit years before my kid's 18, and then it's over.