Do you tell them they have BPD?

[mary290]

I am new to this group but I am already learning so much and while I feel so bad for what all of you are going through, it is a comfort to know I not alone.  My d is 22 and not diagnosed.  Would that be ud22?  I am still trying to learn all the abbreviations... .anyway, she knows she is depressed but how do we tell her she is BPD?  Or do we?  Right now we are estranged (again) so she wants nothing to do with us.  She is textbook BPD (anger, irrational, always blaming others, cutting when she was younger, sexually aggressive, depressed, suicidal, takes on way way too much then falls apart when it doesn't work out, etc).

Now that we know why she has been acting crazy all these years and are learning the coping mechanisms, I fear it is too late to help her.  My husband says let her go for now, she'll come back to us when she needs something but I want to reach out to her.  She went from us supporting her financially 100% to nothing.  Saying "screw you, I'll take care of myself, get a job, pay for school, I don't need you" but this is a girl who has never held a steady job and always made excuses why she couldn't work.  We also took back the car that she was borrowing.  I am cool with tough love but I do want her to know we are here for her and have offered to pay for therapy.  Her response was 'haha, no'. So do I text her that I now understand that I know what she has been going through and while that doesn't excuse her behavior we are in a better position to help her or do I leave it be for now?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[griz]

Hi Mary290:

Welcome.  I am sorry you are struggling but know that this is a wonderful place for support.  I don't know if I would tell her a diagnosis especially since she has not been formally diagnosed with one.  In my experience, I was not happy that our daughters P told her she had BPD. Once she had this diagnosis she went on line and we able to find excuses for all of her behaviors.  Now about a year later she will tell you that BPD is bulls... t and although she realizes that she has trouble regulating her emotions and she knows she has abandonment issues she disregards any attempt at help.  No more medications (they don't work and just make you fat), no more therapy (therapists don't really care they just want your money).  The problem is the world is fuc... ed up and people just suck and nothing will ever change (all her words).

So I do my best to learn how to help her as best I can.  Validation really helps.  Maybe this could help with your daughter.   You could send her a message just saying that you know how hard things can be and that you will always be there for her to help.  When my daughter is having a hard time and I validate her feelings sometimes it works right away and sometimes she will come back with, "you have no idea how I feel"  I usually answer with, "you are right, I don't but I try to understand and I will do whatever I can to help".

Griz

[parent of bpd daughter]

Hi Mary290,

I am sorry you find the need to be here, and I know this board has been a lifeline for me the past few years - please continue to share here - I have found it to be a safe environment that we all learn from.

First question I have - How do you KNOW she is BPD? I don't see any mention of an official diagnosis from a Dr. or therapist? I ask because I NEVER got a diagnosis while mine was younger (she is 32 now) and once they turn 18 - we are no longer entitled to their medical information in the U.S. I only know of her BPD diagnosis because she spit it out once in a fit of anger after her last suicidal hospitalization. I also know that the dozens of psychiatrists, therapists, primary care dr.'s I took her too as a minor told me do not rush to put any label on her illness - somehow they all seem fearful of labeling. Anyway - I don't think telling her she has BPD symptoms will do any good - and she'll just use it against you later.

Secondly - my 2 cents is do what makes YOU feel better in terms of contact, financial aid etc. If YOU feel like reaching out - do so, if not, don't. Sadly, in my case at least - it never mattered if I reached out or didn't - my BPDD didn't seem to care one way or the other. You can't get inside their head - they won't share their feelings - so only thing as a mom is to do what makes you feel better. Regarding your husband's advice - I have noticed over the years, that fathers don't seem as clued into this illness as mothers are. I am not trying to stereotype or offend, yet statistics show that an overwhelming amount of BPD sufferers are female - perhaps we mothers should listen to ourselves and not our husbands in this matter.

Thirdly - yes all too familiar - my BPDD has never held a full time job and she is 32! and we paid for 12 years of private K-12 schooling AND 4 years of college - she is very well educated but does not feel she should have to work - ever. She holds part time jobs ONLY if they are high visibility and she stays in the limelight. Yes - cutting, anger, always blaming everyone but herself, took back my house key from her when she was 24, she blew threw 2 cars we had given her for free, failed to maintain - textbook BPD same as yours, yet we are not supposed to say that according to all the shrinks.

I am sorry you are traveling this road - get therapy for yourself - you will need it. Be gentle with yourself.

[mary290]

Even though she has not been officially dx'd we feel that she fits the profile to a tee.  Erratic behavior has been going on for years:  she tried to emancipate at 15, moved to a friend's house for a week, came back, moved out officially at 18 when she was so abusive verbally and emotionally to me that I asked her to leave.  She has lots of friends (or did,  she seems to be alienating people daily now) and is extremely extroverted.  She is very funny and people seem to give her lots of chances especially her dad and me.  She is very smart and finally got into our state's best public school (yay!).  She did well in the summer sessions and got A's in her 4 classes.  (2 each session). 

Ecstatic with her success, she enrolled in 21 (!) credit hours for the fall semester.  We begged her not to take so many classes especially since this school is hard but she wouldn't listen ("you don't believe in me" ) etc.  We really did not know the ramifications of this disease yet nor how to react, ie low affect and encouraging slowing down.  We got sucked into her enthusiasm and her goals ("I am going to triple major in biology, psychology and neuro biology and I'm going to go to grad school and med school and get a phd and I'm going to get straight A's and... .  " - well, you get the picture.  Sigh.

  Needless to say, she started off well but then quickly got behind.  As she got further behind she became more depressed.  Then she couldn't get out of bed.  Then she lost her job in the psychology lab.  Then she became more and more depressed.  10 days, TEN DAYS, before the semester was over, she calls her dad and tells him she is quitting school and will take one class next semester.  Did I mention we were 100% paying for everything?  What?  He managed to talk her into staying and finish her finals.  She comes home Christmas Eve and he asks how everything turned out, ie grades, credits.  Turns out she dropped 2 classes, failed another, got mixed grades in the rest and was extremely angry/defensive/belligerent with us.  NEVER said you're right, I shouldn't have taken so many classes.  Never said thanks for paying for all of this.  No, just said she was depressed and sick and we needed to support her (more emotionally than financially).  Unfortunately, hubby and I did not handle it well and we let our anger and frustration control and she ended up leaving in a fury and told us she was done with us.  Saying she was suicidal and depressed but she hated us and did not want any help from us.  And no, we couldn't pay for the therapist she is seeing.  She has always been a 'cut off your nose to spite your face' kind of kid so this was nothing new. 

Sorry this is so long.  There is much more but I am sure I have already droned on enough.  Suffice to say we are trying to educate ourselves in the best way to interact with her, not let our emotions dictate and take baby steps.  I really appreciate your feedback.  Griz, I do want to validate her feelings and think that is very good advice.  I asked my sister in law to tell her that I know she is sick (daughter's word) and that I want to help her I just am not sure where to start.  I hope that is the right thing to do.

[twojaybirds]

 Hi Mary and welcome.

My dd18 is your dd.  She left here unemployed weeks after her 18birthday.  No car nor license.   She got a summer residential job then got herself into college because as she said she needed a place to live... .  but also pulled off all her financial scholarships.   She too is double majoring and minoring... .  Is on her 3rd dorm mate and maintains an apartment 60miles away.   I have no idea how and find it better not to ask.

I respond to her emails texts as she sends them with acceptance and validation.  She does not know her diagnosis and her p says it is better. She would reject it and it would be impetus for smother scene.

I learn a huge amount from this board and Valerie book Overcoming Borderline.   

Keep posted and keep yourself healthy

In the End we all try to do what is right or us in our own situations.  Lots is by trial and error. 

[mary290]

Thanks, twojaybirds, I just ordered the book.  I also ordered another BPD survival guide type of book.  Thanks again!

[sam-99]

We are new to the BPD diagnosis.  I told my daughter(22) right or wrong.  She has always been willing to go to counseling etc and is really almost adicted to anything in the medical field including hospitals.  She did some research right away and agreed that she had the majority of the symptoms.  It has helped her understand why the basic Cognitive Therapy she has been getting the past year hasn't been helping and she is ready to look for alternate therapy options.  So in our case it helped, but it hasn't been very long.  Don't know what will be the case down the road.  But, I'm thinking as she makes friends etc, if since she knows she can clue them in and they will be better friends to her because of the knowledge if they care to research it.  All my daughters friends are thrilled to have info so they can be a help to her and not make things worse. 

[almostvegan]

We never told our 16 yo her diagnosis. We felt it would legitimize to her any time she had a " moment" she'd say oh I'm boarderline can't help it.

So she doesn't know. At least not from us.

[sunshineplease]

Wow. I can see where telling them could go either way. I've been reading Valerie Porr's book and thinking my ud17 (I hope that's right; with mary290, I'm also not sure of the lingo) might feel some relief at having an explanation. But I can also imagine where it might just throw her into victim mode, and all that entails.

But how can you get the right help, without a firm diagnosis?

[Being Mindful]

Wow. I can see where telling them could go either way. I've been reading Valerie Porr's book and thinking my ud17 (I hope that's right; with mary290, I'm also not sure of the lingo) might feel some relief at having an explanation. But I can also imagine where it might just throw her into victim mode, and all that entails.

But how can you get the right help, without a firm diagnosis?

Hi Sunshine, We stopped chasing a diagnosis and treated the symptoms, especially since most will not firmly diagnose borderline in teens.

Being Mindful

[lbjnltx]

The current DSM provides criteria for diagnosing PD in adolescents... .  meeting 5 of 9 criteria persistantly and pervasively for a year or more.

Many therapists and psychiatrists will mark diagnoses as "emerging PD" "emerging BPD" "traits of BPD" "Borderline Features" etc... .  to aid in forming team treatment plans.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Sybmom]

I think it all depends on the person.  I told my dd18 when she was 16 because she was so confused about what was going on in her head.  Once we told her she willingly went to therapy, wilderness program and an RTC for 16 months.  Good luck!  It is a tough call and only you can make it.

Be strong.

[Eclaire5]

Since it has not been formerly diagnosed I would be careful not to tell her anything because she is just going to throw it back at you and might feel that you are just judging her. BPD can be quite severe in some people and in others can be pretty mild, so sharing the diagnosis can be helpful for some, but not for the younger ones or the more severe cases. The best thing you can do is what you are already doing: getting informed, obtaining support, and trying to remain healthy.

[Jacqueline]

HI.  I'm really new, but not new to the issues of dealing with a child with BPD.  My daughter was diagnosed, she received treatment, became better, and then because of stress, it came back.  I told her it has come back, and she became very angry at me.  I think maybe one of the characteristics of a BPD, is you can't tell them anything as they will take it as an insult - very insecure.  My advice would be to try to get her to discover it for herself somehow.  Leave some magazine articles or something lying around for her to pick up.  Good luck.  We all need it.

[mary290]

Thanks for all your great advice and feedback.  I think it is important to treat the symptoms and not worry so much about the dx.  I was hoping it would give her piece of mind knowing what was going on with her.  Years ago I remember her saying to me "Mom, I am just so tired of messing up."  I did not know BPD even existed at that time.  I just thought she was a stubborn, belligerent, angry kid.  I sure wish I knew then what I am discovering now.

She is currently living her own life and wants nothing to do with us.  I haven't talked to her since Xmas eve but I have sent her 2 texts and one email saying I was here if she wanted to talk.  She is in full blown victim mode right now and I am validating.  I really hope this is not all too late.  I am trying so hard to be patient and wait for her to reach out to us.  The longest she has been estranged in the past is about 4 months when she was 18.  She is dong some modeling and evidentally got a small part in some horror film (my SIL is friends with her on FB and keeps me apprised).  The good news is she has a wonderful, supportive bf who encourages her to make good choices.  I hate to say this but we are not sure how he puts up with her.  I did send him a link to a BPD article and suggested to him that she may have it.  Not sure that was the best thing to do but that was a couple of weeks ago and I was stupider then.

[Jacqueline]

The quote "Mom, I am just so tired of messing up" really sends the message home doesn't it?  I feel so sorry for my daughter, because I know she does not choose to be this way. It really is a struggle for her and very painful for her.  It is so hard to sit back and not be able to do something to help your child in some way, for me - isn't that supposed to be our job, even though they are grown?  I am not in contact with my daughter either right now, but am fortunate her hubby is a good supportive guy (he is so supportive that he sides with here on the BPD issue - I'm hoping he is not next in line (again) for her sometimes abusive behavior).  Unfortunately, what this means is I don't see my grandaughter either  - 11 months old, which makes me very sad.  I hope, with some learning on how to cope we (my other family members and I) can have a healthy relationship again one day with her.  This site is a great start for me.  We all have our struggles, similar, but different.  Good luck with yours.  Take care of yourself.  It can wear us down.

[Esperança_Hope]

 ,

Yes! My DS31 knows , finally, what has happened all his life. Since he knew he has BPD he  get relieved and are getting better and better.

Keep posting.

This is an amazing place to find knowledge and acceptance as validation.

Take care

[determined NMS]

I told my dd19 (undiagnosed) that I thought possibly she has BPD. well actually I told my mum as my dd has been living with her for the last 1 1/2 months. I was so enthused that I had found the reason why my dd acts the way she does and why our whole family has been torn apart over the last 8 years and maybe she could access some help. I have long known that my mum has a mental health issue, although what it is I don't know. Now I believe it is BPD also, although there were drug and alcohol issues that went on from when I was a child to just over a year ago (alcohol drugs I believe she stopped using some years ago). Well this was too much for my mum and I have now found out she took this as I was blaming her and that she passed down the defective genes, in actual fact it gave me a lot of empathy for her and how difficult things must have been for her when I was young.

However a week later I was able to have a conversation where the topic was brought up and discussed. The seed is there if she wants to explore it. Incidently she told me she did an online quiz and it came back that she may have BPD. I doubt she will do anything about it, but she may do in the future

[Eclaire5]

NMS, I can’t even imagine how difficult it must have been to be the daughter and mother of two BPD. However, the experience with your mother must have given you a lot of experience and now you are already a couple of steps ahead in regards to handling the relationship with your daughter. When my dd was finally diagnosed and her therapist had a long talk with my husband and me, it was such a relief to find out that her problem was strongly genetic. Unfortunately, my first husband was a raging borderline, and even though he did not raise her (I left him when she was just a baby) and was never in her life, she turned out to be very much like him. Since the first thing I did after she was diagnosed was to try to have more information on the disorder, some of the material I read was very discouraging because BPD was blamed mostly on past history of trauma, abuse, neglect or dysfunctional relationship with the parents, especially the mothers. I obsessed over the mistakes and even little things that I did or didn’t do as a parent, which only left me feeling guilty and depressed. It was such a relief to later find out from her T that this condition can also be hereditary, and that in his opinion my husband and I were good parents that had raised her well.

[jellibeans]

I have not told my daughter directly but she has been told by therapist etc... .  she asks me why people keep thinking she is BPD and I told her it was not set... .  that she just shows some signs of it and that she is young and has the ability to change and grow... .  I do think it helps her that we approach her issues differently now they suspect this is what she has... .  it helps me to get over the anger and look at her differently as someone who is ill... .  it is very freeing

I wish I knew what the right approach is but I think it depends how old your child is at the time... .  there really isn't a right or wrong answer.

[lbjnltx]

Like jellibeans, my d's therapist told her she had BPD.   She used the "it's not my fault I have BPD" one time.  My reply "you are correct, it is not your fault and you are the only one who can really do anything about it.  What are you willing to do?"

   After inpatient psych testing it was established and officially dx as "emerging BPD". I explained the difference to her... .  that she doesn't have the disorder... .  it is in the development stage and she has the opportunities to stop it in it's tracks if she uses the skills presented to her and takes responsibility for her own recovery. ... .  which she finally did in rtc.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[sunshineplease]

I'm wondering if the "development stage" conversation wouldn't be a good one for most young adults, actually, since science says the prefrontal cortex isn't really done developing until age 25. I think about how I might react to "you have precancer and can do something about it" vs. how I'd feel if I was told "you have cancer."

Most of all, I love your response to your daughter's victimization statement. That's the ultimate ticket out of this mess!

[determined NMS]

Eclaire5 I have only just put two and two together so sadly I am not ahead of the game. I did take all of the behaviours personally with my mother (and also my dd) and sadly had bad parenting skills. This is an interesting point, because I can clearly acknowledge there were difficulties with my parenting and if I could turn back time... .  but it doesn't really matter (in my opinion) why we are at the point we are but rather the important issue is where we go from here on out... .  

Tell them, don;'t tell them? Depends on the person and the moment