They're all mad here...

[ExtraMom]

 

Ah, the holidays... .

Girl9 gets once weekly, court-supervised visits with her mom, BPDx. At those visits she gets to see her half-brother and half-sister who are now in foster care and visiting their mother at the same time.

GoodDad (my boyfriend and Girl9's custodial father) helped raise the half-brother, Boy12, as his own. The siblings are in foster care but are in the custody of BPDx's mother, unfortunately.

BPDx's family hate GoodDad. They were complicit in BPDex's emotional abuse of GoodDad and the kids. They were complicit in BPDex's visitation violations in the past. They have verbally abused GoodDad and Girl9. The AuntN (BPDx's Narcissist sister) once called the police on GoodDad during a pick up of the kids before he had custody of Girl9. He's not even sure of what she had accused him of, but it had something to do with the fact that AuntN was angry that he was at BPDx's apartment while her own daugher was there. He hadn't even gone inside. He was just there to pick up his kids for their weekend. There wasn't even a conflict with BPDx at the time. The police came and ended up telling him he could file charges for making a false police report, but he didn't at the time.

It was just more of the constant harassment from BPDx's crazy family.

And now, in apparent retaliation for him obtaining legal custody of Girl9, BPDx's mother has cut off all contact for Boy12 with the man he knows as his father. They haven't had a visit since August and GoodDad has no recourse because Boy12 is not a blood relative.

THE CURRENT PROBLEM:

AuntN sent a message to GoodDad demanding that Girl9 come to her house to be with "her family" on Christmas. BPDx will not be there because they're not speaking to each other this week.

This is not going to happen because GoodDad doesn't trust any of them, he has insisted that visits with BPDx's family be supervised, and he will not set foot on any of their property because he does not feel safe attack or accusation. He has offered regular visits with BPDx's family in neutral, public venues. They have frequently cancelled or failed to show up and haven't brought the siblings to one of these visits since August.

I say that the kids will be visiting their mother on Dec. 23rd and that is the required Christmas time with her (she renegotiated her visitation so that she would actually have LESS time, eliminating holidays with Girl9 in exchange for requiring Girl9 to be at the weekly court-supervised visits in her home with her and her Child Molester husband). If the extended family wants to see Girl9 so badly, they should attend the visit at her mother's designated Christmas.

But, since they're not speaking right now (it varies from week to week), we would be willing to offer to meet up with the extended relatives at a restaurant or other neutral space... .just not at anyone's home. We're not trying to deny Girl9 from her extended family, but we also don't trust them as far as we can throw them. And they weigh a LOT.

And meanwhile, thanks to their vindictive "retaliation," I am losing hope that GoodDad will ever get to have contact with his son again. If GoodDad insists on supervised visits with Girl9, they will probably continue to withhold all contact with Boy12.

Can anyone see any kind of solution to this? I'm confounded.

[DreamGirl]

Sounds like they put the "FUN" in dysfunction.

Your husband has a pretty good boundary "I won't spend time alone with someone who will call the cops on me for little to no reason".

A restaurant would be a good compromise, or offering the supervised visit with mom, and stating "I don't feel comfortable meeting" at her residence is reason enough. It becomes her decision at that point, even when she twists the story that you withheld her from seeing her. Not saying she will... .but, well, you know.

As far as the SS12.  :'(

Unfortunately, I don't know that you have many options in that.

It's the ugly part of divorce with stepchildren.

Anyway to somehow journal, or write him letters to be given to him when he's older? What's Mom stance/reason on him not seeing him? 

Any chance that she'll shift her thoughts?

[marbleloser]

GoodDad sounds like he's handling the out-laws correctly. It's not his problem and they can't "demand" anything. If nothing else,he's keeping girl9 away from the dysfunction.

As for his step-son,I'd recommend he start a journal.Keep trying to have contact with him.Send him notes at school,go to the school,whatever he can legally do to see him.If he's in public,he can see him and there's nothing she can do. He needs a voice recorder in case she tries to file false charges.It'll take a while,but if he can go to court and show he's trying to be in his stepsons life and she is denying him that,his chances increase,especially with him having custody of their girl9.

[tog]

If they were legally married and he helped raise the child for a period of time, was financially responsible for him and the child called him father, he may have some legal rights. Probably depends on the state, though. Has he spoken to a lawyer? If he took it to court, the boy said he wanted to see him, and the family refused, they might grant him some time. Don't know. Worth a shot.

[ExtraMom]

I think we're going to go with the restaurant offer. At that point, if they refuse, then it's on them. We continue to offer chances to see her in a controlled environment and if they refuse that, we at least tried to compromise.

Things are complicated by the fact that Boy12 is autistic. He is very high-functioning and very intelligent, but he is also quite trusting. He will believe anything they tell him. I can only imagine what they tell him.

Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your perspective) GoodDad was never married to BPDx. They were off and on for a few years and even so, she was eager to have her son grow up knowing him as his dad. The BioDad was not really in the picture and didn't pay support unless the authorities caught up to him. Even he has said that he thinks GoodDad is an excellent father to Boy12 and that he wishes GoodDad had custody of him.

GoodDad has spoken with his attorney who tells him that the law only cares about blood relation, especially since he and BPDx weren't married. I mentioned the idea of the journal to him. We're not ready to give up, but he did think it might be at least something... .

[ExtraMom]

Well, he offered the dinner and they turned it down. He was willing to compromise so he'd be able to see his son, but I guess they're not willing to compromise in order to see their precious granddaughter/niece. But then, I guess they don't have to, because he's still decent enough to keep offering them opportunities to see her. At least the kids will still get to see each other at their court-supervised visit at their mom's.

Feh.

[DreamGirl]

Well, he offered the dinner and they turned it down. He was willing to compromise so he'd be able to see his son, but I guess they're not willing to compromise in order to see their precious granddaughter/niece. But then, I guess they don't have to, because he's still decent enough to keep offering them opportunities to see her. At least the kids will still get to see each other at their court-supervised visit at their mom's.

Feh.

There are certain dynamics that need to be upheld in these kinds of dysfunctional families.

The "Victim Stance" is very important for these types of personalities involved. There is validation in being the victim and there is a freeing of responsibility (guilt). The situation is self-inflicted, but it needs to be your fault. Accountability, just isn't something that can be offered up here.  

You compromised for them to have a meeting. They said no, because the victim stance is a mighty one to take, and this would make them/her not the victim.  (Can you imagine? Something like this being so important to them, that they have chosen not to see their niece?)

That's OK. It is what it is.

You acted honorably and in the best interest of your SD.

I think you did good.  

[ExtraMom]

As it turns out, BPDx was also at AuntN's house for the Christmas celebration. Which is another reason unsupervised visits with that family aren't allowed... .  because no one told GoodDad that BPDx would be there, and there was no court-appointed supervisor present. They were apparently all drinking a lot of alcohol, as well, which I'm sure made for a delightful and undramatic day. (BPDx announced, once again, that she was disowning them all, shortly after Christmas.)

So no regrets about not giving in and sending Girl9 off into the snakepit.

Unfortunately, we keep making offers for visits in public/neutral spots and they either don't respond at all or give some trumped up excuse as to why they just cant' make it. AND they keep inviting Girl9 to come over for "slumber parties" with her cousin (AuntN's daughter), despite being fully aware of the very simple visitation rules.

So... .  GoodDad and his "son" haven't really seen each other in six months. We missed Halloween (which had always been "GoodDad's Holiday" with the kids), Christmas, and Boy12's birthday.

We are willing to see Boy12 under supervision, on neutral ground... .  whatever it takes to be able to see him again. But they seem pretty disinterested in seeing Girl9 unless it's isolated and on their terms. Were Boy12 not a factor, I might even say that's for the best.

[DreamGirl]

As it turns out, BPDx was also at AuntN's house for the Christmas celebration. Which is another reason unsupervised visits with that family aren't allowed... .  because no one told GoodDad that BPDx would be there, and there was no court-appointed supervisor present. They were apparently all drinking a lot of alcohol, as well, which I'm sure made for a delightful and undramatic day. (BPDx announced, once again, that she was disowning them all, shortly after Christmas.)

Ugh.

How do you know all of this? (I only ask because sometimes I like not knowing what antics are happening in my absence)

Unfortunately, we keep making offers for visits in public/neutral spots and they either don't respond at all or give some trumped up excuse as to why they just cant' make it. AND they keep inviting Girl9 to come over for "slumber parties" with her cousin (AuntN's daughter), despite being fully aware of the very simple visitation rules.

Dysfunctional families tend to boundary bust.

Only way to make it stick is to continue to just say "no". Again, if they want to blame you, so be it. If you keep offering reasonable solutions and they only want it on their terms, then that's on them.

It really is too bad.

So... .  GoodDad and his "son" haven't really seen each other in six months. We missed Halloween (which had always been "GoodDad's Holiday" with the kids), Christmas, and Boy12's birthday.

We are willing to see Boy12 under supervision, on neutral ground... .  whatever it takes to be able to see him again. But they seem pretty disinterested in seeing Girl9 unless it's isolated and on their terms.

This is the hard part.

Have you offered to invite them somewhere and they say no?

Do you think there is an event or something that you can include them in? - does SD play sports or dance? A recital?

~DG

[ExtraMom]

How do you know all of this? (I only ask because sometimes I like not knowing what antics are happening in my absence)

They post a lot on Facebook and there were posts and photos from Christmas. Though, lately, they have all started to screen their posts, I suspect, just because not a lot shows up any more. It's pleasantly quiet lately, though I'm sure a lot of drama is going on that is no longer quite so public.

Dysfunctional families tend to boundary bust.

Have you offered to invite them somewhere and they say no?

Do you think there is an event or something that you can include them in? - does SD play sports or dance? A recital?

We try to invite them (the whole family minus BPDx) to something at least once a month. For the last few months, they have refused all offers. We seek out activities that the kids will enjoy and that they can interact at... .  community family-friendly events, movies, the local museums, etc.

Also... .  when we made the offer to meet up at a restaurant, we found out they were spreading around town the lie that GoodDad had told them that they couldn't see Girl9 unless they took him and his family out to eat. Um... .  the invitation was phrased specifically so that it was evident that the bill would be split. And this month, we even offered for them to join us at a pizza restaurant, our treat, to celebrate Boy's birthday. They, of course, declined.

[DreamGirl]

Also... .  when we made the offer to meet up at a restaurant, we found out they were spreading around town the lie that GoodDad had told them that they couldn't see Girl9 unless they took him and his family out to eat. Um... .  the invitation was phrased specifically so that it was evident that the bill would be split. And this month, we even offered for them to join us at a pizza restaurant, our treat, to celebrate Boy's birthday. They, of course, declined.

It's easier to make it your fault - they have to be able to be the victim, not the reason.

Their truth is their truth. Yours is yours.

I say keep offering, keep trying.

If you're not willing to do it on their terms, you get to do that. They either accept it or they don't. Sometimes it takes a while - but from what I'm reading... .  they don't seem overly interested in actually seeing SD9, but more interested in making themselves victims in not being able to see her.

You can't change that kind of priority.