Any "Legal Experts" here?

[Gottagonow]

First please let me say that I know "Legal Advise" is not given out here. I am not looking for advise at all. I am just asking about the rules for presenting evidence in court... .  

That being said;

I have a question about evidence. Yes I have an attorney but just like to double check things to make sure no one is getting lax about anything. My STBXW has all of a sudden produced a box full of "evidence" (receipts & such) trying to stake claim to a non-marital property of mine by producing bogus receipts. & I mean a box full. She’s claiming close to 200K in improvements to this non-marital property. It is less than a week from trial & it’s going to take forever to disprove these bs claims.

We asked for this in discovery about 6 months ago but STBXW refused to produce anything & did not answer much more than her name & address in response to the interrogatories. Now it is a week till trial & magically, here it is... .  

Can this stuff still be used? I don't want to delay anything here as STBX has already managed to push this out a year... .  

Thanks

[marbleloser]

This indicates that she's trying 1) to throw a mountain of things at you in order to drive up costs and delay 2) hoping you won't catch the "bogus" receipts and sucker you out of money.

If I were you,I'd got through every receipt myself.Get copies! She has the burden of "proving" these expenses were on the home. Take pics of every room in the home and the outside. When she tries the "I bought gallons of paint and repainted each room!" You counter with "What color? Then produce your photos. Same with cabinets or anything else she tries to lie about.

[Gottagonow]

This indicates that she's trying 1) to throw a mountain of things at you in order to drive up costs and delay 2) hoping you won't catch the "bogus" receipts and sucker you out of money.

If I were you,I'd got through every receipt myself.Get copies! She has the burden of "proving" these expenses were on the home. Take pics of every room in the home and the outside. When she tries the "I bought gallons of paint and repainted each room!" You counter with "What color? Then produce your photos. Same with cabinets or anything else she tries to lie about.

She is supposedly putting them in "Order" yesterday. Then her attorney is supposed to copy them, then I am supposed to be able to pick them up. Which means I might have them by Wednesday night or Thursday. Trial is next Tuesday. I agree about her trying to delay things as it has been her stratagy since day 1.

Do you know if any of this admissable though or can my attorney object to it all because of the timing? I can certainly disprove the amount of money she is claiming given enough time but the property is across the country from me.

[marbleloser]

Your attorney should be able to object,or at least motion the court to allow time for you to go over evidance.

[stuckinbetween]

Hi Gottagonow,

Sounds like we're in the same boat---both our divorces coming right up after being pushed out a year.  Mine will be over 25 months from date of petition.  It's awful how our stbxPDs drive up costs.  His attorney just dumped 753 pages of discovery on my attorney at the very last minute.  I'll be following your posts.  Good luck.

Stuckinbetween

[seeking balance]

First please let me say that I know "Legal Advise" is not given out here. I am not looking for advise at all. I am just asking about the rules for presenting evidence in court... .  

That being said;

I have a question about evidence. Yes I have an attorney but just like to double check things to make sure no one is getting lax about anything. My STBXW has all of a sudden produced a box full of "evidence" (receipts & such) trying to stake claim to a non-marital property of mine by producing bogus receipts. & I mean a box full. She’s claiming close to 200K in improvements to this non-marital property. It is less than a week from trial & it’s going to take forever to disprove these bs claims.

We asked for this in discovery about 6 months ago but STBXW refused to produce anything & did not answer much more than her name & address in response to the interrogatories. Now it is a week till trial & magically, here it is... .  

Can this stuff still be used? I don't want to delay anything here as STBX has already managed to push this out a year... .  

Thanks

Yes (again, state laws are different) in CA.

If you used marital assets for improvements to the property she may have a claim to reimbursement on those assets.  I had this issue in my divorce... .  not 200K, but several thousand.  However, she will have to do a clear tracing path on the upgrades.

I had a tenant, so I had the argument that the rent paid for upgrades - the money pool was murky.

I settled before trial, so I don't know how it would have been ruled.

what is your attorney saying?

[ForeverDad]

Being family court, judges using their discretionary powers liberally is common.  Even if stbEx missed multiple time requirements, failure to file on time is often ignored or at least treated as a minor matter.  Some things the court sees strictly, this may or may not be one of them.

Some time frames are strictly observed, for example, if you decide to appeal something and miss the appeal time window by one day, you're probably sunk.

[Gottagonow]

First please let me say that I know "Legal Advise" is not given out here. I am not looking for advise at all. I am just asking about the rules for presenting evidence in court... .  

That being said;

I have a question about evidence. Yes I have an attorney but just like to double check things to make sure no one is getting lax about anything. My STBXW has all of a sudden produced a box full of "evidence" (receipts & such) trying to stake claim to a non-marital property of mine by producing bogus receipts. & I mean a box full. She’s claiming close to 200K in improvements to this non-marital property. It is less than a week from trial & it’s going to take forever to disprove these bs claims.

We asked for this in discovery about 6 months ago but STBXW refused to produce anything & did not answer much more than her name & address in response to the interrogatories. Now it is a week till trial & magically, here it is... .  

Can this stuff still be used? I don't want to delay anything here as STBX has already managed to push this out a year... .  

Thanks

Yes (again, state laws are different) in CA.

If you used marital assets for improvements to the property she may have a claim to reimbursement on those assets.  I had this issue in my divorce... .  not 200K, but several thousand.  However, she will have to do a clear tracing path on the upgrades.

I had a tenant, so I had the argument that the rent paid for upgrades - the money pool was murky.

I settled before trial, so I don't know how it would have been ruled.

what is your attorney saying?

Attorney has not answered me on the objecting part yet. I think she is trying to trade it (& I don't understand why) for bank records on a personal account belonging to STBXW that she has refused to give bank records on. I believe it is because she has been taking & hiding money in the account for years... .  ( just recently found out about the account but STBXW refused to provide bank records in discovery.

My property is in CA. I live across the country. Marital money went into the home to remodel it but only about 65-70K, not the almost 200K she is now claiming. I have been renting the home out for over 5 years & regained almost 100K in rent $$$ that went back into the "Marital pot" (or her bank account, really don't know as she is the one that handled all of the money coming in... .  HUGE fights if I even asked about it). I think that should more than satisfy her claim that I "Owe her"

[seeking balance]

I would assume the judge will allow the reciepts - as FD says, family law typically is not as strict with deadlines as other law. 

On a spreadsheet - show where the rental income minus the mortgage has extra money towards the upgrades.  I did a lot of spreadsheet work to save money and make it easy for the judge to make a decision.  My ex didn't nor did her attorney and it worked in my favor.

[GustheDog]

I would assume the judge will allow the reciepts - as FD says, family law typically is not as strict with deadlines as other law. 

On a spreadsheet - show where the rental income minus the mortgage has extra money towards the upgrades.  I did a lot of spreadsheet work to save money and make it easy for the judge to make a decision.  My ex didn't nor did her attorney and it worked in my favor.

Do this.  But remember - this is *her* claim, right?  It is therefore her burden to prove her own claim.  Have your attorney remind the court of this fact.  It's not your burden to *disprove* it (although it may feel that way).

If you're asserting that the receipts she wishes to introduce do not actually represent expenditures towards the improvements, this isn't really an evidence question.  As long as she can make a plausible argument that the receipts *do* cover expenses relating to the improvements, then you'll likely just have to fight it on the merits.

Either way, you're entitled to a reasonable period of time to review this before the issue is litigated.  If what she's doing is really over the top and egregious (like, just a bunch of bald-faced lies), also talk to your attorney about a motion for sanctions for frivolous conduct.

[ForeverDad]

Some claimed expenses can be invalidated if the invoices aren't credible, weren't dated, have the address on the receipt, provide reasonable detail, no proof they were actually paid, etc.  I wouldn't doubt but that some of her paperwork is forged, misleading or incomplete.

If she refuses to provide account statements and you know the banks she used, then you or your lawyer can use the authority of the court case to subpoena the banks directly to produce the account statements in question.  Your lawyer should know how to do that, as long as you have sufficient information about the banks or accounts.  It's standard to request the information from the spouse, but if that fails, go to the source using the proper format and authority in the case.

[seeking balance]

I would assume the judge will allow the reciepts - as FD says, family law typically is not as strict with deadlines as other law. 

On a spreadsheet - show where the rental income minus the mortgage has extra money towards the upgrades.  I did a lot of spreadsheet work to save money and make it easy for the judge to make a decision.  My ex didn't nor did her attorney and it worked in my favor.

Do this.  But remember - this is *her* claim, right?  It is therefore her burden to prove her own claim.  Have your attorney remind the court of this fact.  It's not your burden to *disprove* it (although it may feel that way).

This is a great point - my ex did not have it detailed and as such the mandatory settlement judge didn't even look at her stuff.  I had mine as a back up which was much less money than ex was claiming.  I did not have to produce it because all the tracing showed was property mine, the rental was consistent and ex's receipts were random and not organized.

[GustheDog]

Some claimed expenses can be invalidated if the invoices aren't credible, weren't dated, have the address on the receipt, provide reasonable detail, no proof they were actually paid, etc.  I wouldn't doubt but that some of her paperwork is forged, misleading or incomplete.

If she refuses to provide account statements and you know the banks she used, then you or your lawyer can use the authority of the court case to subpoena the banks directly to produce the account statements in question.  Your lawyer should know how to do that, as long as you have sufficient information about the banks or accounts.  It's standard to request the information from the spouse, but if that fails, go to the source using the proper format and authority in the case.

Good points.  I was thinking that objecting on grounds of authentication would be assumed, if applicable.  Make sure your attorney checks to see what, if anything, can be excluded based on your jurisdiction's best-evidence rule and authentication standards.

Also, the subpoena duces tecum is a fine idea, but third-party subpoenas can get sticky if the supoenaed party (here, the bank, etc.) objects and/or if the records sought are located outside the court's jurisdiction.  This can lead to a lot of time-consuming, and expensive, motion practice.  But no harm in issuing the subpoena and hoping the bank just complies.

[Matt]

* You might object because so much stuff was received so late, after you asked for it months ago.

* You might object because you believe it's all baloney.

* You might look through and find a few examples that you know for sure are baloney, and use those examples to say "and the rest is probably all baloney too".

I would certainly make sure I knew what my attorney was offering to trade.  If this box of receipts isn't legitimate, and the bank records you have requested haven't been turned over, it might not be a good trade, because they are obligated to turn over those bank records.  Maybe an additional motion (or part of the first one) asking that they be cited for not complying with your requests.

It may also be possible to subpoena anything you have requested but not received.

Then if you go to trial Tuesday, it may be possible for your attorney to start by objecting to this stuff, and asking the judge to order the other side to turn over what has been requested, and maybe asking for a recess so that information can be taken into account.

I understand you don't want any delays, but if these issues make a significant difference, it might be necessary to stand your ground, and say, "We really need the real stuff to be on the table, and the bogus stuff to be off the table, and if that means a delay, then so be it."

If that happens, you might be able to ask for your legal fees, because they are being increased by the games the other side is playing.

Is your lawyer not returning your calls?  That is a big concern so close to trial.  You need her to work closely with you the next few days.

[Gottagonow]

I would assume the judge will allow the reciepts - as FD says, family law typically is not as strict with deadlines as other law. 

On a spreadsheet - show where the rental income minus the mortgage has extra money towards the upgrades.  I did a lot of spreadsheet work to save money and make it easy for the judge to make a decision.  My ex didn't nor did her attorney and it worked in my favor.

No mortgage on the CA property so it is all simply about how much "Marital $$" went into it to remodel vs. how much we got back in rent over the years. What your saying is basically what my attorney told me.

I am "Mr. Spreadsheet" (, I teach Excel) & have already out together all income from property. Just waiting on receipts now so I can did through all of the ones that are bs & get to the actual/factual numbers.

[Gottagonow]

* You might object because so much stuff was received so late, after you asked for it months ago.

* You might object because you believe it's all baloney.

* You might look through and find a few examples that you know for sure are baloney, and use those examples to say "and the rest is probably all baloney too".

I would certainly make sure I knew what my attorney was offering to trade.  If this box of receipts isn't legitimate, and the bank records you have requested haven't been turned over, it might not be a good trade, because they are obligated to turn over those bank records.  Maybe an additional motion (or part of the first one) asking that they be cited for not complying with your requests.

It may also be possible to subpoena anything you have requested but not received.

Then if you go to trial Tuesday, it may be possible for your attorney to start by objecting to this stuff, and asking the judge to order the other side to turn over what has been requested, and maybe asking for a recess so that information can be taken into account.

I understand you don't want any delays, but if these issues make a significant difference, it might be necessary to stand your ground, and say, "We really need the real stuff to be on the table, and the bogus stuff to be off the table, and if that means a delay, then so be it."

If that happens, you might be able to ask for your legal fees, because they are being increased by the games the other side is playing.

Is your lawyer not returning your calls?  That is a big concern so close to trial.  You need her to work closely with you the next few days.

Thanks Matt, She is returning my calls and emails. It is just about me liking to ":)ouble check" things. Not because I don't trust her but because like the words of Ronald Regan, "Trust but Verify". It looks like trial has been pused about two months down the road. Good and bad I guess. Good because I will have more time to go through this new stuff & show how crazy their claims are, time to subpoena the bank records. Bad because, my kiddos and I are still tied to a crazy person. The GAL's report is specifically recommending 100% legal & physical custody for me with no visitation for mom. Sounds harsh on the surface but it truly was "That bad" for the kiddos. GAL has just short of a dozen witnesses lined up to testify to what they saw to make her case.

[Matt]

Under the circumstances, you might want to tell your lawyer not to agree to any more delays.

Sometimes delays are decided by the court, and you get no choice.

But other times they are agreed to by the lawyers, and then the court OKs it.  Lawyers may agree to the delay out of courtesy toward the other lawyer, without consulting their client.

If you tell your lawyer (in writing) not to agree to further delays without your approval, I think she'll have to consult you before doing that.  Maybe this can be over in two months.  And things seem to be strongly in your favor so the sooner it's final the better.

Or... .  maybe, since the GAL's report is so strong, you could ask the court for temporary orders - til the trial - which will remove your wife from the house - maybe some limited visitation.

[Gottagonow]

Under the circumstances, you might want to tell your lawyer not to agree to any more delays.

Sometimes delays are decided by the court, and you get no choice.

But other times they are agreed to by the lawyers, and then the court OKs it.  Lawyers may agree to the delay out of courtesy toward the other lawyer, without consulting their client.

If you tell your lawyer (in writing) not to agree to further delays without your approval, I think she'll have to consult you before doing that.  Maybe this can be over in two months.  And things seem to be strongly in your favor so the sooner it's final the better.

Or... .  maybe, since the GAL's report is so strong, you could ask the court for temporary orders - til the trial - which will remove your wife from the house - maybe some limited visitation.

The kiddos and I have been out of the house for almost a year. Renting a home in the city so they could keep going to the same schools. The kids would probably run away from home if I tried to make them live in that house again. And it is a very large & very nice home. Much bigger than the rental home we are in now & it would not be costing me 1K a month in rent but I have to take their feelings and emotions into consideration.  They have told me that there are just to many bad memories in it and they dont want to be there ever again. Even said, "Please". I want to buy another home for us but can't do anything until the divorce is wrapped up.

[Matt]

So this two-month delay doesn't really cause you any big problems - your living situation is OK - just would be nice to get it over with... .  ?

[Gottagonow]

So this two-month delay doesn't really cause you any big problems - your living situation is OK - just would be nice to get it over with... .  ?

In a nutshell that is correct. There are some other moving parts here that I would like to see go away. Such as, the kiddos were adopted over ten years ago in CA. Unknown at the time, an AAP check came with them from the county that we adopted them from, well over $1,100 a month. That money has been kept by mom since it started coming, as her “caregiver paycheck” (her words). We (kiddos & I) are living elsewhere and the county that it comes from will not change the mailing address for the kiddos without both adoptive parents written consent or a court order. Their legal department is reviewing to see if the temp order giving me legal & physical custody will be acceptable for changing it. The wording in it clearly states that custody is not an issue in this case. Their initial answer was no but I have been a bit persistent. Obviously , she will not consent to the change so she keeps getting paid, living in a free house, me covering her on my employers health benefits which costs me about $300 a month just for her (can’t drop her till legally divorced), she is working again (2nd job in the last 12 months), ect, ect, ect… Why would she be in any hurry to give up all that?