anyone have a collaborative divorce? how did it go?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

my high conflict husband, who wants the divorce and who hasnt really spoken to me in a year wants a collaborative divorce. i feel i have many facts and witnesses that i am the more  involved parent, and also witnesses to prove an non standard work schedule.

i cant think of why he would think this would work. i cant think of why he would want 50-50 after being with them only ten percent of the time.

[sometimesnow]

my high conflict husband, who wants the divorce and who hasnt really spoken to me in a year wants a collaborative divorce. i feel i have many facts and witnesses that i am the more  involved parent, and also witnesses to prove an non standard work schedule.

i cant think of why he would think this would work. i cant think of why he would want 50-50 after being with them only ten percent of the time.

[scraps66]

If you were to do a little research on this board, you will find that the percentages are low with alternate court routes like mediation ro collaborative divorce.  I think the percentage is about 20% success with mediation.  You might want to discuss this with an attorney you have a good feeling with.  from waht I have heard with others using mediation it can be just as expensvie, if not more, and not as effective as ust going the court route - with a high conflict combatant.  For all you know the shark attorney your STBx has may very well know that he has a snowball's chance in he! of getting 50/50 and is taking the ca$e knowing that he can rack up a ton of billable hours knwoing full well and good there's no chance. 

You might want to do a little research on your courthouse, see what the lay of the land is right now.  My courthouse had been "pro-mom" for many, many years and is now pro 50/50.  But, it doesn't take much to tip that balance back in favor of the mother in this courthouse.  And, the Orders are written more in favor of the mom even in 50/50.  Essentially, in my case, the mom gets what she asks for and the dad usually is put at some disadvantage even with 50/50.

[charred]

Not sure what a collaborative divorce is... .  maybe I had one.

My exwife started out wanting to take me for all I was worth, to destroy me. She hired an attorney and was ready to battle. I hired one, and read up on divorces and dads and in particular a book called "The no BS guide to divorce" by a guy that went through hell in Florida, had all kinds of BPD type stuff done to him. He suggested that people print out the state they live in's required information for a decree, and work out between them what they each want and sort that out between them instead of using attorneys as go betweens. Sounds impossible... did to me... but he pointed out that no one wins in a divorce and the more one person tries to destroy the other, the more they hurt themselves and their kids.

My exwife was great in all but one way, she spent and spent and wouldn't work... I lost my job and took over bills and found out she had ran up over 40k in credit card debt... .  this was 3 rd time! I had cleared out savings first time, refinanced house second time... she cut up cards and made promises... so I was done. She told me what she was getting according to state guidelines (44% of difference in income... I made over 100k, she 0, so 44k a year in spousal suppport... plus child support and I had huge bills and no job.) Not a good spot to be in... thought about it, hired an investigative journalist/lawyer who specialized in high dollar divorces and was very expensive. And told her that... I was having him go over ever cent spent during our marriage, every scrap of financial paperwork... .  and I expected it to take a long long time... sure we had money in a 401k and a pension, but there won't be much left... and each hour her lawyer and mine argued was $500 less for either of us to recover with... .  but I have no choice.  She knew me and knew I would do it, contacted her lawyer to see if I could legally do it and was surprised that I was fully in my rights... .  and realized that to continue she had to shoot herself in the foot... and we would both be broke... and our daughter would suffer.

The hatred dropped a bit and I sent her the paperwork that the state requires and asked... .  what do you want for the division of assets, what do you want for child support, for spousal... how long to get back on your feet... .  etc. And her first version was still beating me up... .  so I spelled out calmly the implications of what she wanted, why/how it would bankrupt me, the effect on her and our daughter and put forth what I wanted... .  which was almost nothing. She didn't expect that, and finally looked at things from point of view of what was reasonable and workable, and we agreed on it... my attorney we dropped, hers agreed to write up what we agreed to and to run it through (I was nervous... but had in writing what he would do... and he stuck to his word) ... .  since it wasn't contested and was all done in right form, it sailed through... .  4 mos from start to end, fastest of anyone I know. I had to pay quite a bit of spousal for 18 mos, and less for 4 more months and said I would help out after that if I could... .  which made her nervous. Its been two years since our divorce... and I do help out, she has a job, works hard, is being a great mother to our daughter and most of what she needs help with is covering unexpected things that come up, like her part of ER bills for daughter... stuff that I pay in part anyway.

I read about mediation and thought about it, but the big thing was my wife was hurt and wanted revenge... and until that viewpoint changed, nothing was going to make a fair settlement. Realizing that two can play that game... and knowing me for over 23 yrs... .  she knew I would never back down when playing hardball... it was pretty easy for her to see the consequences of her actions.

A guy wanting to play hardball in a divorce... normally is asking for defeat in my opinion, the courts everywhere tend to see the guy as the one that should pay, the girl as the mom who should be paid and have most the child rearing time... .  unless something pretty dramatic is involved to change it. Few lawyers are helpful to you... by providing emotional support, good advice, or otherwise... .  they make their money by billable hours and contention pays them more than a short quick settlement.

The big thing about a divorce is fear of the unknown... .  you simply don't know how it will turn out, if your kids will be hurt, if you get to see them, if the ex will be a deadbeat, etc. Going through a divorce is horrible for all involved... .  if you are getting one for sure, I would do what I can to make it as short as possible, be fair, and let your soon to be ex know the impact on his kids of what he wants to do when it is unfair. In some states whoever files first has a huge advantage, that would be something a lawyer could help with... .  you should not be locked out of money during the process... .  good luck.

Personally, I probably should not have gotten a divorce, I still loved my wife, and she loved me... .  I had been contacted by my exBPDgf and thought it was true love and stupidly got in a r/s with her while still married and ended up losing my family, a great job and a lot of respect for myself... .  I hurt my wife, my kid and myself, and even my pwBPD... no one came out ahead in the divorce... lost 1/2 of all my stuff, 1/2 my retirement/pension too.

The positives... .  I had to actually be the only care giver for my daughter during my visitation weekends... and I didn't know what that was really like till doing it, rough at first, but once my daughter got past hating me for everything... .  we grew much closer as I actually had time with just her and I, and paid attention to just her. She left a private school (that I could no longer afford) and went to public... which worried me, but turned out to be wonderful, she was a recipient of a national honor last year, is honor role this year and is happier than ever, her folks don't argue, she has friends and all is well. I am working on my issues with a T (that led to me being with the pwBPD) and overcoming them. My exwife has a job, works, has been promoted twice and feels 100% better about herself and me. We may end up reconciling eventually... .  but maybe not, in any event we now help each other out when we need to.

Is that a collaborative divorce... don't know... it is no longer the most horrible thing ... .  it is regrettable. The pwBPD is back to being the top horror story... and it even had a sequel... a second time 20 yrs later with losing everything.

Good luck

[livednlearned]

Don't even think about collaborative divorce with a pwBPD.

You will play every card you have using two attorneys who contractually agree to not litigate your case.

If you are at all self-respecting and care about your kids and their well-being, you won't agree to your ex's terms, which will be punitive and unreasonable (this is BPD we're talking about). For most of us here who try mediation or alternative dispute resolution, or settlement, we end up going to court. But you can't do that because your attorneys signed a collaborative divorce contract saying that they will not litigate. That means that if you don't agree to his terms through collaborative divorce process, you must retain a new lawyer, and start all over again, except this time your ex knows every single thing you want, and you have no strategy because you played all your cards.

Bad idea. Super bad.

Mediation and other collaborative techniques are difficult for severe Blamers because “they cannot handle compromises, they cannot listen to ideas that conflict with their reality, the abandonment feels too intense, and they cannot handle the combination of physical closeness and emotional distance (ending their lives together while sitting together)” (Eddy, 2004, p.30).

[ForeverDad]

my high conflict husband, who wants the divorce and who hasnt really spoken to me in a year wants a collaborative divorce. i feel i have many facts and witnesses that i am the more  involved parent, and also witnesses to prove an non standard work schedule.

i cant think of why he would think this would work. i cant think of why he would want 50-50 after being with them only ten percent of the time.

This has to stop.  You simply can't make sense of mental illness.  (Yes, lawyers and court will probably be very careful not to mention any aspect of "metal illness" or at least downplay it, it is there even if most of the professionals ignore it.  My own lawyer avoided high tech definitions and just said she was crazy.)  By definition, mental illness isn't normal.  While it can be described, cataloged and predicted, it will never make common sense.  Never.  So don't try.  Don't waste your precious energy on a hopeless endeavor.  It is what it is.  He is what he is.  Worrying about these aspects is as productive as chasing your tail, so to speak.  Move on past this issue.

[sanemom]

my high conflict husband, who wants the divorce and who hasnt really spoken to me in a year wants a collaborative divorce. i feel i have many facts and witnesses that i am the more  involved parent, and also witnesses to prove an non standard work schedule.

i cant think of why he would think this would work. i cant think of why he would want 50-50 after being with them only ten percent of the time.

This has to stop.  You simply can't make sense of mental illness.  (Yes, lawyers and court will probably be very careful not to mention any aspect of "metal illness" or at least downplay it, it is there even if most of the professionals ignore it.  My own lawyer avoided high tech definitions and just said she was crazy.)  By definition, mental illness isn't normal.  While it can be described, cataloged and predicted, it will never make common sense.  Never.  So don't try.  :)on't waste your precious energy on a hopeless endeavor.  It is what it is.  He is what he is.  Worrying about these aspects is as productive as chasing your tail, so to speak.  Move on past this issue.

THIS IS SO TRUE!  ^^^^^

Trying to make sense out of nonsense will only serve to make you crazy!

[charred]

To clarify... I posted because the question was did anyone have a collaborative divorce and how did it go... .  I think I did and it went pretty well... BUT... I did not divorce a pwBPD... I had an affair with one that contributed heavily to having the divorce. From what I have seen of my pwBPD, and how she treats her exH and talks of the battles she had with him in court, I would not have wanted to be married to a pwBPD and if in that unfortunate spot would want to take the boards advice and cover yourself. Expect them not to play fair, be truthful, etc.

Good luck, you are in a very difficult position. Stress is tremendous, mindfulness meditation can really help... my T had me read and do the exercises from Eckart Tolle's "A New Earth"... .  best money I ever spent. Still pretty much stress free.

[Allure]

my high conflict husband, who wants the divorce and who hasnt really spoken to me in a year wants a collaborative divorce. i feel i have many facts and witnesses that i am the more  involved parent, and also witnesses to prove an non standard work schedule.

i cant think of why he would think this would work. i cant think of why he would want 50-50 after being with them only ten percent of the time.

This has to stop.  You simply can't make sense of mental illness.  (Yes, lawyers and court will probably be very careful not to mention any aspect of "metal illness" or at least downplay it, it is there even if most of the professionals ignore it.  My own lawyer avoided high tech definitions and just said she was crazy.)  By definition, mental illness isn't normal.  While it can be described, cataloged and predicted, it will never make common sense.  Never.  So don't try.  Don't waste your precious energy on a hopeless endeavor.  It is what it is.  He is what he is.  Worrying about these aspects is as productive as chasing your tail, so to speak.  Move on past this issue.

My DH gets frustrated with me and tells me the same thing.

[tog]

It's in my nature to want to understand things, especially how the human mind works. Now that I understand a lot more about BPD (w/NPD traits), that helps me to deal with her behavior. It still makes me angry and frustrated, but at least if I get that it's usually about her fear, projection and need to control, I can help my SO respond in a different way.

So I think it's OK to try to understand it, just don't try to understand it from a logical perspective. So in this case, I'd say he's probably afraid of losing the kids, but likely also of losing control over you and the situation in general. He may also have a need to fight with you and to show everyone that he's a good parent (as evidenced by him having 50/50 custody). He also will be unlikely to see that what's best for him may not be what's best for the children and see them as possessions. When you were together he was OK with you caring for "the possessions" but not if you are apart.

[ForeverDad]

My county is not far from yours and it has a "guideline schedule" which has default visitations set for ages 0-2, 3-12 and 13-18.  In all of them there is always a custodial parent with majority time and a non-custodial parent with minority time.  All three groups.  And the age 13-18 group is just 3 days one alternate weekends.  I assume it is meant for the majority of cases wherein both parents are reasonably normal.

Your county's standard 4-week schedule looks to put the teenage children with the non-residential parent 2 evenings every week, and for weekend overnights, 1 Fri on weekend 1, Fri-Sat on weekend 2, Sat on weekend 3 and not on weekend 4.  In other words, 4 overnights every 4 weeks, plus frequent evenings.  That means the court expects 14.2% overnights for the non-residential parent is reasonable, not 50%.

If he were living in my county, his seeking equal time would mean he wants an exception to the official default.  Doesn't mean he can't ask for it, he can ask for anything he wants, he just probably won't get it.

I also know too that the state likes the concept of Shared Parenting (but not necessarily mean 50/50) but frankly that REQUIRES two parents who can generally cooperate and co-parent.  Probably one of your points to emphasize strongly to the court, besides your history of majority parenting, is that the marriage failed due to lack of cooperation and that factor combined with your history of majority parenting makes Shared Parenting and 50/50 as very likely to fail from the start.  In other words, you want the failed marriage ended but the parenting to remain "status quo" with you continuing to be the decision-making and majority time parent.  He is seeking a change to vastly more time and he has no support for that claim other than his status as the father, no history to make it exceptional and no basis to believe it is in the children's best interests, no reason for him to have anything more than the standard minority time.

His seeking 50% may be his strategy to keep you at an emotional disadvantage and under his influence.  If you can walk into the temporary order hearing, present your case well and walk out with majority time, it's unlikely he will be able to get anything better than that later unless you end up making a settlement (courts and lawyers prefer settlements) and "gift" him more than what the court set.