shall I ask an awkward question?

[vivekananda]

Hi all,

advice time again please... .  you know dd32 had been n/c with me all last year almost. After I wrote the 'sorry letter' asking in part what I could do to repair the relationship, we have had coffee twice last Dec.

I have tried to meet again, but it hasn't been easy. She doesn't reply to texts - we had a date for last week, but she cancelled it. I suggested this Monday. But she hasn't replied to my text. I will be trying again today (Sun morn here).

So, with this brings a sense of frustration. The question I have is, should I directly ask her does she want a relationship, if so, what does she wants out of it? While I think this could very well be confrontational, I am getting tired of the stringing along and the hurt and worry that comes with not knowing where I stand... .  

I wanted to see her before dh and I set off for a celebratory 2 week cruise to NZ (yay!), we leave this Tues. That will take us into mid Feb before there is another chance to catch up... .  

any ideas?

cheers,

Vivek    

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[qcarolr]

Vivek  - I know this is hurtful for you. You have reached out - maybe take you vacation without contacting DD again. And enjoy it to the fullest that you can. Wait for her to reach out to you now.

My DD calls it harrassment when I contact her multiple times when she does not respond to me. And it is usually only a few days NC. I have to practice distraction after the second day - or at least in the past. Right now I am in a resistant place that i hope I do not see or hear from her for ... .  as long as she will stay away. She is drifting back to  exbf's with recent breakup from bf"M". And my surprise is that these guys even want contact with her. Both of them ended up in jail with long probation for assaulting her -- which I believe she often provokes. YIKES. For a seperate post.

qcr  

[cfh]

Vivek

My ds has been very clingy since he has been in jail.  But prior to that he went missing many times or was too drugged up to answer my calls/texts.

I think that if I had asked him outright if he wants a relationship or anything to do with us... .  his anxiety would have gone through the roof.  He would not have known what to say and so who knows what might have come out of his mouth.

I agree with qcarol.  Though this has been so hurtful for you can you take your vacation without contacting dd again?  Maybe just text her your itinerary and tell her you are so excited about the trip and will tell her all about it when you get home.  How do you think she might feel about getting that kind of text?

I hope you'll come home so rested and rejuvenated!

[inkling16]

My daughter is only a teenager so I don't know if my opinion necessarily applies, but I feel like if I asked her a question like that, the answer would depend on her mood that moment, and also the mere act of asking might inspire her to say "no." It seems like it would be a better bet for you to work on disengaging, taking the contact when it comes and not letting it gnaw on you when it doesn't. I think qcarolr's suggestion sounds right.

[vivekananda]

if I asked her a question like that, the answer would depend on her mood that moment, and also the mere act of asking might inspire her to say "no."

I suspect that's right.

qcr and cfh - I rang and left a message - a non commital one saying will you make it for coffee Mon... .  

qcr - I recognise that resistent place. I think that's a bit like how I feel... .  

cfh - a text like that would be, I think, totally irrelevant to her. She wouldn't even notice I think... .  

Thing is, does she want a relationship or not? I'm not sure. If you ask, she'd say yes, but does she really... .  I wonder if she says yes because that's what she thinks she should say.

So sad not to know your own daughter. I heard someone say that if my life ends tomorrow, at least I have known the pleasure of holding my baby in my arms. I suppose I should remember that... .  

Vivek    

[mary290]

Vivek , I so feel your pain.  We think about them non stop.  They rarely think about us.  We lunge for the phone from across the room, hoping it's them; they ignore our calls and texts.  We cry ourselves to sleep every night, they don't even notice our misery.  This hell called BPD is so unjust, so unfair.  We love our daughters, our sons.  We do our very best to be the best parents for them, to love them, teach them, nurture them, comfort them.  They in turn drop us like a hot potato.  This is so wrong.  But it is, unfortunately for many of us, reality.  I think the more you chase her, call her, text her, the more she is going to pull away.  She knows you want her in your life.  She is your daughter; of course you want to have a relationship with her.  My advice:  don't call her anymore for right now.  Don't text her.  Go on your vacation.  Try and enjoy yourself.  Know that this is NOT your fault.  In time, she will probably reach out to you.  Mine did.  I pulled away and she finally called me.  We are slowly trying to start over.  I am happy but cautious at this point.  Please try and find a happy place for your mind, heart and spirit.  Your mentally ill daughter is not able to give you the kind if relationship you need.  And I know that is heartbreaking.  Please try and take care of yourself and enjoy NZ!   

[lurchlookalike]

My daughter is only a teenager so I don't know if my opinion necessarily applies, but I feel like if I asked her a question like that, the answer would depend on her mood that moment, and also the mere act of asking might inspire her to say "no." It seems like it would be a better bet for you to work on disengaging, taking the contact when it comes and not letting it gnaw on you when it doesn't. I think qcarolr's suggestion sounds right.

The above is right on target.

My experience over time is that you will never have a stable relationship with your daughter unless she is cured from this significant mental illness. You can be stable, and probably are, but a 1-sided stability between 2 people can never be completely stable. Over the years you will be split to black, white, back to black again, white again, and on and on.

I'm sure you love her and want to help but you have to find your own separate peace and not allow her volatile mood swings to control you. Just know that no matter what you do, your daughter will continue to split you through no fault of your own. A peace will never be permanent, neither will her hate campaigns. The worst thing you can do is let her control you.

[mikmik]

ViveK,

I believe to my core that your dd wants a relationship with you, but she has had BPD whispering in her ear for so many years, it is like a constant buzz in her head.  She has a hard time parcing what is real and not real in all the stories and memories.  Part of her knows you love her, but becasue of BPD she may not be able to trust that part yet.

This is a long round to say, I don't know if asking a pwBPD that question would be fair to either you or dd.  It could trigger some abandonment issues on her part at this fragile stage.  Just when she is considering risking  being with you again.  And, too, I agree with the notion that whatever mood is hanging over their heads would direct any answer.  Could you perhaps, let her know you value the time you are together, and also understand that while she needs to be the one who shows up, that you want her to show up, but also understand that this is a process that must be taken with steps she is comfortable with? 

You are her mom, she has a disease.  There is still some burning flame of connection in her.  I don't know if that can satisfy you.  The sorry letter has opened the door, she just does not know how far to let you in right now, from what it sounds.  Two coffees in December, after a year's no contact is brilliant.  Maybe in March it will be three teas and maybe in May it will be a movie.

Sending you many hugs.

mik

[peaceplease]

Vivek ,

The ball is in her court.  I would let the baby steps continue.  Go on your trip with your dh.  Enjoy!

 

peaceplease

[Reality]

ViveK,

I believe to my core that your dd wants a relationship with you, but she has had BPD whispering in her ear for so many years, it is like a constant buzz in her head.  She has a hard time parcing what is real and not real in all the stories and memories.  Part of her knows you love her, but becasue of BPD she may not be able to trust that part yet.

This is a long round to say, I don't know if asking a pwBPD that question would be fair to either you or dd.  It could trigger some abandonment issues on her part at this fragile stage.  Just when she is considering risking  being with you again.  And, too, I agree with the notion that whatever mood is hanging over their heads would direct any answer.  Could you perhaps, let her know you value the time you are together, and also understand that while she needs to be the one who shows up, that you want her to show up, but also understand that this is a process that must be taken with steps she is comfortable with? 

You are her mom, she has a disease.  There is still some burning flame of connection in her.  I don't know if that can satisfy you.  The sorry letter has opened the door, she just does not know how far to let you in right now, from what it sounds.  Two coffees in December, after a year's no contact is brilliant.  Maybe in March it will be three teas and maybe in May it will be a movie.

Sending you many hugs.

mik

Yes, Vivek ananda,

Yes, I, too, see steps moving imperceptibly towards... .  

Reality

[sam-99]

Those seemingly small steps of recent are not really that small.  Enjoy them as they come while you continue to enjoy your life.  I am finding it takes a lot of patience, but sounds like things are moving ( though slowly ) in the right direction for y'all.  Relish in each moment you two get to spend together.  As you do she may come to see how enjoyable it can be for both of you and begin to look forward to those times herself.  Just has to move slow... .  sigh... .  

Hope y'all have a wonderful vacation and come home refreshed and reinvigorated!  :D

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Being Mindful]

ViveK,

I believe to my core that your dd wants a relationship with you, but she has had BPD whispering in her ear for so many years, it is like a constant buzz in her head.  She has a hard time parcing what is real and not real in all the stories and memories.  Part of her knows you love her, but becasue of BPD she may not be able to trust that part yet.

This is a long round to say, I don't know if asking a pwBPD that question would be fair to either you or dd.  It could trigger some abandonment issues on her part at this fragile stage.  Just when she is considering risking  being with you again.  And, too, I agree with the notion that whatever mood is hanging over their heads would direct any answer.  Could you perhaps, let her know you value the time you are together, and also understand that while she needs to be the one who shows up, that you want her to show up, but also understand that this is a process that must be taken with steps she is comfortable with? 

You are her mom, she has a disease.  There is still some burning flame of connection in her.  I don't know if that can satisfy you.  The sorry letter has opened the door, she just does not know how far to let you in right now, from what it sounds.  Two coffees in December, after a year's no contact is brilliant.  Maybe in March it will be three teas and maybe in May it will be a movie.

Sending you many hugs.

mik

Mik speaks some good advice here! 

[cfh]

Viv

Mik is right.  Though you may not feel it real progress has been made.  As I mentioned in an earlier post I don't think my ds could handle me asking that question outright. 

These kids have such distrust ingrained in them and it spills over into every relationship.  But I think your dd is inching her way back to you.

[vivekananda]

mik mik as always you speak right to my heart and tell it truly.

Reality you are a beautiful soul, thank you for reminding me that she is taking steps to join us.

and everyone else, thank you for your support and wise words. It is what I needed to hear, talking with you helps me set my mind straight again, and it sets me back on track.

I am so lucky to have you all.

Well, before I had your advice to not contact again, I rang and left a voicemail. dd responded within 24hrs to cancel the coffee which would have been today.

Dh was talking to his sis yesterday when she, out of the blue, said she had rung dd (who answered the phone to her) to invite dd to lunch. My SIL said that dd declined, she wasn't feeling up to it, she had recently had a 'break up' in her relationship. Of course we knew nothing of the relationship, and of course knew nothing of the break up. Ho hum - lucky I didn't ask that question about relationships eh?

Therein lies a reminder to me that I have no idea of the current context for dd's life and therefore cannot do anything but validate. I can ask no questions.

I start cruising tomorrow - yay  , will be bringing you all with me    oho... .  

with thanks to you all,

Vivek    

[lbjnltx]

Have a safe and wonderful voyage Vivek  

[suchsadness]

Vivek ,

Yay is right... .  enjoy that vacation!  

I'm glad you heard back from your dd - even though she cancelled, it gave you some closure so you wouldn't have to hang on to the hopes that she would call back, and the fear that you might miss her call.  This is what happens with me.  I feel like I'm hanging on the edge when I am anticipating some sort of response and don't get one.  There was a lot of good advice here, and some I need myself right now.  I had a therapist tell me that I shouldn't expect a normal back and forth relationship and when there are times of extended nc if I just keep the contact by sending short "I'm thinking of you today" type messages that don't need a response she will know that I think of her and care about her.  

Again... .  have fun on your vacation.    

[Speedracer]

Vivek ,

You got some great advice! Go on your trip, Enjoy every bit of it! Pick up a gift for her. Hold onto it until she reaches out to meet you.

Another thing came to mind - volunteering - I worked in a daycare for homeless children. I forgot about anything that worried or bothered me when I spent time with those kids. They brightened my whole day! I felt so good that I was helping so their parents could work and know they were safe and cared for.

Whether you volunteer or meet some lovely people on your trip, you have so much to give. Give some of it to others while you wait for dd! You will learn how much that eases your burden!

[peaceplease]

Vivek ,

That is great that she called you!   Even though you will not be meeting her, at least she had the cosideration to call.  I believe that is progress.

Please enjoy trip!  

speedracer - Funny, you should mention about volunteering.  I have been thinking about that myself a lot, lately.  I have wanted to volunteer for Hospice for a while.  Originally, I wanted to volunteer because I thought that it may be an area of nursing that I would like to explore.(still interested)  Then when my brother was in Hospice care, I really came to appreciate the sitters when we couldn't be there.  And, even to just to be respite for any caregivers. 

 

peaceplease

[griz]

So glad she called even if she cancelled there was contact.  Enjoy your wonderful vacation.

Griz

[jellibeans]

Enjoy your trip... .  have fun and don't worry. You have had a lot of good advise. such a supportive group... .  take care of yourself... .  

[plshlp5]

Vivek ,

Enjoy your vacation - you so deserve every bit of it! I sit back and wish I had some words of wisdom or comfort for you, as you did for me. All I can do is offer a virtual hug. I'm not in the position to offer any of those things yet, but can only reiterate what the others have said regarding the baby steps and her consideration of your feelings by calling you to cancel. Take care and enjoy yourself thoroughly on your cruise!  BTW, I'm learning lots with my new book... .  thx again!       

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[mikmik]

ViveK,

Can't wait to hear all the wonderful stories you will have.  Save seas, good food, wonderful experieces, and new friends.  These are my wishes for you.

mik

[sunshineplease]

Have a wonderful time, Vivek .

Lovely to see the helpful support and insights on this website!

My mantra of the week: "I trust the process of the universe to bring me to my highest good. I am on the right path. I trust the process of the universe to bring my daughter to her highest good... .  "

[vivekananda]

Hi all

: "I trust the process of the universe to bring me to my highest good. I am on the right path. I trust the process of the universe to bring my daughter to her highest good... .  "

A beautiful thing to remember! Trust in the universe is one of the three components of mindfulness I believe. And the universe is a wonderful thing 

I'm sitting in sunny Napier, an Art Deco town, just finished agreat coffee, all is good 

The cruise is full of old people! It's pretty funny - course at 60, I suppose I qualify as old... .  but young at heart! Just called in to say everything is very good indeed, but I miss you all and hope all is well with you.

Viv   

[pessim-optimist]

Hi Vivek !

BON VOYAGE!   

Have a great, relaxing, happy time.

Isn't is great that you heard from your dd, and so you can put your mind at ease and enjoy what is at hand?

 

Thank you for being such a compassionate sojourner here on the board!

Enjoy your time off to the last drop!