3rd day in court and advice on "Splitting" methods

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

The 3rd day in court was very bizarre.  This is something you have to visualize.  Opposing counsel ( a knockout---long thick wavy black hair, red lipstick---, glamorous, extremely sexually provocative woman with many plastic surgeries) was dressed in a tight polka dot sundress with maximum cleavage exposed and stiletto heels, spent a huge part of her day kneeling on all fours on the floor in front of the judge frantically going through stacks of her papers in a fruitless search for evidence---any evidence.  When she couldn't find it, she tore through the clerk's carefully marked exhibits, but was still unsuccessful.  Then the judge caught the eye of my attorney and  gave her an exhausted look that said, "Help her, will you?"  So my L. starts giving his L. some of her own evidence!

The opposing counsel (OC) seemed oblivious to the judge who'd heard and seen enough by the end of the first day, and by now seemed frantic to get this thing over with and get the bozos out of his courtroom.  Sometimes he was leaning back in his chair, arms folded acoss his chest, glaring at the OC on the floor.  Or he would put his elbows on his desk and lean forward with his head in his hands.  Then he discovered that he could see his reflection in his laptop monitor and spent considerable time arranging and rearranging his hair.   Hmmm- does it look better this way or this way?  OC was walking back and forth in her spike heels saying, "Oh my feet are killing me!"  Then she said, "You know, I can't wait until my mother dies so I can have her house!"  Everyone looked sickened but she didn't notice.

In the afternoon, even the clock on the wall began to screw up.  The minute hand began to race as fast as the second hand.  First the bailiff noticed it and began to stare, then the clerk started looking at it.  My friend and then my L. began to watch it intently.  The judge, wondering what everyone was looking at, started staring too.  Finally he said (brightly), "Well this trial has been dragging on and on, but time seems to be flying now!"  Only my h and his wacko L. didn't notice the clock.

Just before 3:00 the judge couldn't take another minute.  He said, "Put your arguments and closing statements in writing and send them to me.  Do either of you have any more evidence?  Leave it on the clerk's table.  No more testimony!  No more testimony!"  He sprinted out of the courtroom as if gasping for air.  The bailiff didn't even have the opportunity to say, "All rise."  Everyone left was caught in freeze frame with the judge suddenly gone AWOL, so they just picked up their stuff and went home.  Florida humorists Tim Dorsey, Carl Hiasson, or Dave Barry could have written the screen play.  The only thing missing was the albino python.

The Ls have until the 19th to get everything in, so I won't know the outcome for awhile.  But here's what I've learned so far, though I'm still processing this thing out.

Your attorney must understand your spouse's PD.  Critical. Do not hire an attorney who isn't willing to learn. My usually aggressive L. knew she would lose h. if she confronted him.  Instead she disarmed him, and when he was feeling appreciated, she calmly lead him to give her the answers she wanted, whereupon she stopped that line of questions, so as not to muddy the waters.  Your L. must tailor her presentation to the PD.  Mine said she had an "Aha!" moment when she read, "Splitting."

Spend the money for excellent and credentialled expert witnesses.  In my case, it was the forensic accountant and my occupational therapist.  His mistake was in using a regular accountant who didn't know he needed to analyze every single item in literally hundreds of financial records.  Credit card statements can be very incriminating, as h's were. Keep everything you've got, even if it doesn't seem important.  I was surprised at what turned out to be important.  Keep emails and make sure you never put anything rude or incriminating in an email or in writing.

Don't have an affair until it's over.  And make sure your own behavior is faultless.

Don't settle out of court if you don't think it's fair.  Of course this advice may be premature in that i don't know what the judge will decide.  But at least I know in my heart I gave it everything I could.

The articles I sent my L. were to educate her about narcissism and how it affected me---gaslighting, entitlement, horrible verbal aggression, etc.  I really wanted her to know this disorder and what it was like to live with it as a spouse, and from h's perspective, to have his worldview.  L. had to live inside the heads of both h and myself.  It was very effective.  She learned how to expose h's unlikeable personality in court.  The judge didn't like him.

Don't piss off the judge!

That's what comes to mind right now, but ask me if you think of something specific.  Personally I'm feeling very weird and dazed, like I'm in "trial withdrawal" or something.  I really don't like this feeling.  Anyone experienced this?

Stuckinbetween

[stuckinbetween]

The 3rd day in court was very bizarre.  This is something you have to visualize.  Opposing counsel ( a knockout---long thick wavy black hair, red lipstick---, glamorous, extremely sexually provocative woman with many plastic surgeries) was dressed in a tight polka dot sundress with maximum cleavage exposed and stiletto heels, spent a huge part of her day kneeling on all fours on the floor in front of the judge frantically going through stacks of her papers in a fruitless search for evidence---any evidence.  When she couldn't find it, she tore through the clerk's carefully marked exhibits, but was still unsuccessful.  Then the judge caught the eye of my attorney and  gave her an exhausted look that said, "Help her, will you?"  So my L. starts giving his L. some of her own evidence!

The opposing counsel (OC) seemed oblivious to the judge who'd heard and seen enough by the end of the first day, and by now seemed frantic to get this thing over with and get the bozos out of his courtroom.  Sometimes he was leaning back in his chair, arms folded acoss his chest, glaring at the OC on the floor.  Or he would put his elbows on his desk and lean forward with his head in his hands.  Then he discovered that he could see his reflection in his laptop monitor and spent considerable time arranging and rearranging his hair.   Hmmm- does it look better this way or this way?  OC was walking back and forth in her spike heels saying, "Oh my feet are killing me!"  Then she said, "You know, I can't wait until my mother dies so I can have her house!"  Everyone looked sickened but she didn't notice.

In the afternoon, even the clock on the wall began to screw up.  The minute hand began to race as fast as the second hand.  First the bailiff noticed it and began to stare, then the clerk started looking at it.  My friend and then my L. began to watch it intently.  The judge, wondering what everyone was looking at, started staring too.  Finally he said (brightly), "Well this trial has been dragging on and on, but time seems to be flying now!"  Only my h and his wacko L. didn't notice the clock.

Just before 3:00 the judge couldn't take another minute.  He said, "Put your arguments and closing statements in writing and send them to me.  Do either of you have any more evidence?  Leave it on the clerk's table.  No more testimony!  No more testimony!"  He sprinted out of the courtroom as if gasping for air.  The bailiff didn't even have the opportunity to say, "All rise."  Everyone left was caught in freeze frame with the judge suddenly gone AWOL, so they just picked up their stuff and went home.  Florida humorists Tim Dorsey, Carl Hiasson, or Dave Barry could have written the screen play.  The only thing missing was the albino python.

The Ls have until the 19th to get everything in, so I won't know the outcome for awhile.  But here's what I've learned so far, though I'm still processing this thing out.

Your attorney must understand your spouse's PD.  Critical. Do not hire an attorney who isn't willing to learn. My usually aggressive L. knew she would lose h. if she confronted him.  Instead she disarmed him, and when he was feeling appreciated, she calmly lead him to give her the answers she wanted, whereupon she stopped that line of questions, so as not to muddy the waters.  Your L. must tailor her presentation to the PD.  Mine said she had an "Aha!" moment when she read, "Splitting."

Spend the money for excellent and credentialled expert witnesses.  In my case, it was the forensic accountant and my occupational therapist.  His mistake was in using a regular accountant who didn't know he needed to analyze every single item in literally hundreds of financial records.  Credit card statements can be very incriminating, as h's were. Keep everything you've got, even if it doesn't seem important.  I was surprised at what turned out to be important.  Keep emails and make sure you never put anything rude or incriminating in an email or in writing.

Don't have an affair until it's over.  And make sure your own behavior is faultless.

Don't settle out of court if you don't think it's fair.  Of course this advice may be premature in that i don't know what the judge will decide.  But at least I know in my heart I gave it everything I could.

The articles I sent my L. were to educate her about narcissism and how it affected me---gaslighting, entitlement, horrible verbal aggression, etc.  I really wanted her to know this disorder and what it was like to live with it as a spouse, and from h's perspective, to have his worldview.  L. had to live inside the heads of both h and myself.  It was very effective.  She learned how to expose h's unlikeable personality in court.  The judge didn't like him.

Don't piss off the judge!

That's what comes to mind right now, but ask me if you think of something specific.  Personally I'm feeling very weird and dazed, like I'm in "trial withdrawal" or something.  I really don't like this feeling.  Anyone experienced this?

Stuckinbetween

[ForeverDad]

Don't settle out of court if you don't think it's fair.  Of course this advice may be premature in that i don't know what the judge will decide.  But at least I know in my heart I gave it everything I could.

And in most cases a judge's decision will be better or at least no worse than what our ex would agree to.

Personally I'm feeling very weird and dazed, like I'm in "trial withdrawal" or something.  I really don't like this feeling.  Anyone experienced this?

Yes, it's that absence of pressure.  No more preparation, no more on-edge worries.  Just relieved it's over.  Beware of the next feelings, such as "if only I had said this or presented that... .  "

Personally, I think you'll have a far better outcome than your worst-case scenarios plotted by ex.

[Rose Tiger]

Absolutely fascinating account of events.  I admire your lawyer for taking on the challenges of going up against a pwNPD.  NPDs usually do very well in family court.  Sounds like she has him by the short hairs.  I can't wait to hear how this turns out.  Good job you and I enjoy your writing style, very nice.

[Rusted Rail]

Your attorney must understand your spouse's PD.  Critical.

Thank you for this advice and for sharing your experience.  I am interviewing lawyers right now and they all say they understand it but the key is to actively listen to pick the one who actually GETS it ... .  This could alter your whole strategy I imagine.

[livednlearned]

Your NPD ex picked an L who sounds NPD?

It sounds like the clock was having a blast 

What a drag that you have to wait, but good news that the judge had heard enough.

What kind of verdict do you hope him to deliver? What would be a good outcome in your mind?

[sanemom]

Absolutely fascinating account of events.  I admire your lawyer for taking on the challenges of going up against a pwNPD.  NPDs usually do very well in family court.  Sounds like she has him by the short hairs.  I can't wait to hear how this turns out.  Good job you and I enjoy your writing style, very nice.

Because of this, I hope your lawyer's "advanced" tactics worked.  I really hope that the judge saw through the NPD.  I have been lurking and waiting for the resolution... .  it's better than Downtown Abbey!  (ok, I haven't seen that show, but I am guessing it is better... )

[AnotherPhoenix]

 

Congratulations!

Today sounds like a good comedy movie. Except it sounds like the movie was too long. Similar to what another poster wrote on your 2nd day in court--Get out the popcorn!

Best,

AnotherPheonix

[stuckinbetween]

Your intuition is spot on, LnL.  I put it together that h's L. could be a somatic narcissist.  No wonder this trial has been so, well, trying.  My poor L. feels kind of contaminated by the whole sordid mess and is going out of state for a while when this is over.  It's how I feel.  Depressed and sickened by being immersed in this prolonged horrible experience.  ForeverDad, thanks for the hope you've always given me.  I hope this feeling will begin to lift once this is truly over.  I'm afraid I'm not going to shake the feeling of trauma and grief, but I hope I'll recover eventually.  My L. and i have bonded over this experience.  She's come to mean a lot to me.

[livednlearned]

My L. and i have bonded over this experience.  She's come to mean a lot to me.

Happened in my case too. My L has offered to let me stay at her beach house 

I think the high-conflict takes a toll on the good Ls.

[stuckinbetween]

Yes, LnL, I think high conflict divorces do take a toll on the good Ls.  Mine said my trial made her cry for days afterwards.  Crying helped her purge the pain she'd shared with me by getting into my world.  My sister has been expecting me to snap back.  "Aren't you happy the trial is over?  Why are you still crying?  You'd better keep all this emotion away from your daughter, etc."  My L. is ready to go over and clobber this sister.  L. says, "Of course you're not happy!  You're in mourning.  You've just been through the longest blackest tunnel of your life and the only thing to be 'happy' about is that you're alive." She's begun to suggest places to live back in Florida since I'm in such a dangerous icy place and can't even leave this housing project due to my personal safety.  Her words are like salve on a 3rd degree burn.  So is the support I get here.  Don't know what I'd do without you guys.

I'm so grateful---

Stuckinbetween

[Rose Tiger]

Florida sounds wonderful. 

[h777]

Stuckinbetween,

Somewhat abashedly, I have to admit your story tickled a guilty little button inside if me.  The poetic justice of the Narcissism being his undoing feels like the world turned just a little bit back into balance.  I admire your organized and structured attack while simultaneously mourning with you that you ever found yourself so attacked that you needed to develop it.

Hoping that you can put this awfulness behind and heal.

H777

[StressedinCleveland]

My lawyer didn't get BPD, but he found NPD easier to understand. A crucial point is that you DON'T want to bring up mental health unless you are using that for custody. If your kids are grown, there is no advantage and huge disadvantage in going the mental health route. If you STBX is found to be unemployable by reason of mental incapacity, you will be forced to pay all their living expenses and health insurance for the rest of their lives.