Any Real Friends?

[findingmyselfagain]

Mine had no legit long-term friends. No one from childhood or grade school or community college or church. I chalked part of it up to her having just moved here. She cut off her "best friend" from the state she moved from b/c her best friend chose to circumcise HER own children. Her children. Her decision. My thought. My ex couldn't handle anyone even expressing an opposing political view on FB. She had to hide my brother's FB posts to keep from de-friending him. Little did I know or expect that I'd get on the same chopping block as the rest even after spending months with her... .  planning a family... .  practically adopting her baby daughter. Mostly we were extremely enmeshed, spending 4-5 nights a week hanging out, all weekend, either me and her, or me and her and her family. Very occasionally we would do something with her co-workers. Later I found out that they didn't consider themselves to be close to her at all, although she thought of them as "friends." There was a girl in our Sunday School class and her brother's gf (for a short time before they broke up)... .  But no. No real friends at all. I believe she is just THAT insecure and emotionally unstable and fearful of others' "finding her out." I kind of think of her as the kind of person you say "Bless your heart" to, and then get out of the way and include them in your general prayer for hurt people. No doubt that someone who caused so much suffering in us is also suffering themselves. Probably much more than we know.

My attraction was "the rescue." It was a familiar dynamic to me through my mom... .  also very temperamental, emotionally unstable, in poor-ish health. I felt compassion for my ex and still do today. The lack of friends is really just a reflection of her extreme insecurity and push/pull nature of her inner turmoil.

The question I've been able to answer and move away from is why I was involved EXTREMELY QUICKLY with someone who threw such a ridiculous amount of red flags at me. I can now say "Bless your heart" in her general direction and still enjoy my life. Understanding the dynamics of a tornado (pwBPD r/s) doesn't change the destructiveness of the tornado, but by understanding and accepting the nature of the tornado (and that it isn't personal), we can heed the warnings and take precautions for the future.

[Themis]

ScotisGone74,

I am not "distressed" I just think we should retract our claws a little here. I understand our pwBPD can be mean, confusing etc but we have to be careful not to fall into the trap of mirroring them.

Let's start again. You seem like a really nice guy just going through a difficult time. 

WT

You make some points I can really relate to! What blew my mind is he made such a fuss about not having friends, but now that he wants them----my god he makes them quickly, and with ease! He is super charming and replaced friends really quickly. It spins my head.

All this time I felt so sorry for him and his social disadvantage... .  

I had so much sympathy for his lack of friends, and really encouraged any friendships he had. Then when he was at a point where he didn't want to need me anymore... .  BANG in less than three weeks he has FIVE new friends.

They include him in his group and he even stays overnight with TWO of them. He got close so quickly.

I can make acquaintances really fast, am friendly, outgoing, but I've rarely been able to get that close so fast, even if I wanted to.

It's amazing. I'd take three months to be on "overnight" buddies, BBQ/ drinks out buddies with anyone.

I don't know how he does that.

How do they do that?

[ScotisGone74]

To my knowledge we are all "going through a tough time", which is why we are all here. 

We are discussing their friends, or on this thread usually the lack thereof, not mirroring them.   Bless your little heart also. 

[Themis]

Scott,

I'm attempting to be nice to you, despite you deciding to for whatever reason not be so friendly/dismissive to me.

I've read through a lot of your posts, and what you went through with your ex is horrific. I can see that it was really painful for you, and must still be going through a lot of hurt.

I don't know what else I can say, except try to be nice, as you said we are all going through a hard time here.

[ScotisGone74]

Thank you for your posts and insight. 

[WT]

WT

You make some points I can really relate to! What blew my mind is he made such a fuss about not having friends, but now that he wants them----my god he makes them quickly, and with ease! He is super charming and replaced friends really quickly. It spins my head.

All this time I felt so sorry for him and his social disadvantage... .  

I had so much sympathy for his lack of friends, and really encouraged any friendships he had. Then when he was at a point where he didn't want to need me anymore... .  BANG in less than three weeks he has FIVE new friends.

They include him in his group and he even stays overnight with TWO of them. He got close so quickly.

I can make acquaintances really fast, am friendly, outgoing, but I've rarely been able to get that close so fast, even if I wanted to.

It's amazing. I'd take three months to be on "overnight" buddies, BBQ/ drinks out buddies with anyone.

I don't know how he does that.

How do they do that?

My ex also always complained about not having friends even though she always got along with people initially, and I also felt bad for her and encouraged her to make new friends.  She didn't actually become proper friends with anyone unless she saw them all the time, so it sounds like your ex took the "best friend" aspect to the extreme, and instead of a new romantic partner, he found new "best friends" to put his energy into.  I'm going to assume that much like how they managed to rope us in initially, they can turn on the same charm when they want to make new friends.  How does your ex do in the long-term friendship department?

[broken3]

WT and Findingmyself.

Mt Ex always would have a new best friend every 6 months or a year. Once they would see the real person, or disagreed with her. She would drop them like a hot potato. Then she would find a new best friend and spend every day either talking on the phone with them for hours, or doing social gatherings.

  A few years back. Her new best friend of 2 months son was diagnosed with terminal cancer at the age of 8 years old. We attended gatherings and charitable events for her son to support them in their time of grief. My Ex actually sent an e-mail about what this couple was doing with all the money from these charitable events to her new best friend by mistake (it was meant to be sent to her sister). She panicked and told me what she had done. And my response was how could you do something like that. Its none of your business!

  My ex turned it around and actually got mad at her "best friend" for thinking the worst of her.

  Oh but she always had a comment about me having no friends. Actually the few friends I have had I have known since childhood, and for 10-15 years. They know me inside and out and I, like them would do just about anything if need be.

[Themis]

WT

You make some points I can really relate to! What blew my mind is he made such a fuss about not having friends, but now that he wants them----my god he makes them quickly, and with ease! He is super charming and replaced friends really quickly. It spins my head.

All this time I felt so sorry for him and his social disadvantage... .  

I had so much sympathy for his lack of friends, and really encouraged any friendships he had. Then when he was at a point where he didn't want to need me anymore... .  BANG in less than three weeks he has FIVE new friends.

They include him in his group and he even stays overnight with TWO of them. He got close so quickly.

I can make acquaintances really fast, am friendly, outgoing, but I've rarely been able to get that close so fast, even if I wanted to.

It's amazing. I'd take three months to be on "overnight" buddies, BBQ/ drinks out buddies with anyone.

I don't know how he does that.

How do they do that?

My ex also always complained about not having friends even though she always got along with people initially, and I also felt bad for her and encouraged her to make new friends.  She didn't actually become proper friends with anyone unless she saw them all the time, so it sounds like your ex took the "best friend" aspect to the extreme, and instead of a new romantic partner, he found new "best friends" to put his energy into.  I'm going to assume that much like how they managed to rope us in initially, they can turn on the same charm when they want to make new friends.  How does your ex do in the long-term friendship department?

Long-term friendship? Well like me his long-term friends live in another city. I can't speak as the same thing happened to me.

He made some new friends a couple of years ago... .  hmmm. well so did I, again many people we met at certain events actually live out of town... .  

That's an genuine reason.

Besides that... .  I don't know... .  I really don't know. I'm in the same boat as him, except he is better at starting again.

I have excellent people skills, but just take months rather than weeks to get a person to be someone I can just call on my phone like a buddy you hang out with.

He can do that pretty much instantly, and they take to it really well. If I did that it would look clingy and odd.

He gets a pretty good reception, just ringing a guy up to hang out.

Small differences in delivery make all the difference.

I mentioned in two other posts another phenomena is he has no car--but gets lifts everywhere... .  

How does he do that?

[elessar]

aah good topic. my ex always complained about she never had friends. all the "friends" she made was the people she was either in school with or was working with. but no one she hung out with. and those people would be gone once she changed school or jobs. she has one friend though for past 16-17 years... .  but then both were together from junior high till the end of dental school. and once that ended she has barely seen her friend... .  maybe 1-2 times a year. i really never understood why she couldn't make friends since she seemed so charming.

now i am guessing to be good friends with someone, you need to open yourself up to them. and she cannot do that to anyone and show her pain or real side. and since she cant be close to anyone, she couldn't make friends. just my hypothesis.

[WT]

Long-term friendship? Well like me his long-term friends live in another city. I can't speak as the same thing happened to me.

Ah, ok, I was curious to see if his relationship with long-term friends changed without something like distance creating an artificial wedge.  My ex frequently started finding reasons to dislike her close friends when she wouldn't see them on a regular basis anymore.

[Themis]

Long-term friendship? Well like me his long-term friends live in another city. I can't speak as the same thing happened to me.

Ah, ok, I was curious to see if his relationship with long-term friends changed without something like distance creating an artificial wedge.  My ex frequently started finding reasons to dislike her close friends when she wouldn't see them on a regular basis anymore.

I'm really curious about this too. A couple of good guy friends that moved far away... .  Oh yes! One of them that he was friends with for two years.

He had a "man" friendship with, and I challenged him (and this obviously upset him---but after years of being very nice, I have to have the occasional saying of hurtful truth)

and said that he wasn't honest with this friend. He knows the guy is slightly homophobic and anti-establishment kinda person.

So he doesn't tell him he has been bi-curious, or that he has had government jobs.

I said after two years that's the point where you be totally honest with someone. He considered that over-sharing, and guys don't need to know these things.

Not being a guy, I'm not familiar with your codes between friends. But I feel like he can make friends, but he doesn't show all sides of himself.

I guess we all do that, you have to trust people not to spread your personal information. (Not to say what I'm saying but add in a picture of his face, his name and obvious reference to him.

But there are many BPD men like him. Just see this forum!)

He has a point. If they can get along fine without it, why should he tell all his past?

I don't know. He has admitted that we'd most likely get along better if we didn't live together for so long. He gets engulfed and feels trapped.

I think anyone would eventually enrage him after a year or so of being too close.

But most of his friends are for doing things with, he does stay over their place etc but there's not all the d&ms or intimacy you would get with a girlfriend.

Not to mention I trigger him because I'm an over-sharer, and am really authentic and open with most people.

My attitude is that would weed out most people, but then the ones I'm left with are true friends that like me for me.

[ScotisGone74]

As a guy who is a non BPD my friends are people who I could tell anything about myself

to or call in the middle of the night for help if I needed it and know they would be there.  They aren't people that I currently work with or just met a couple of months ago.  These friends are people I know I can trust because I've spent time helping them through problems over the years and they have done the same for me.  I believe that those with BPD are really not capable of haivng true friends that they don't see everyday or that live long distances away because of their immature emotional state they "Live in the Moment" and are not able to readily "test" friends that they can not see on a daily basis.  I believe that mostly BPD's choose their 'friends' by what they both do in common, ie cheat on their husbands, flirt, those who talk about how bad their boss is, and of course anyone who is of the opposite sex that they believe can give them a supply of compliments and boost of self esteem. 

[Themis]

I believe that mostly BPD's choose their 'friends' by what they both do in common, ie cheat on their husbands, flirt, those who talk about how bad their boss is, and of course anyone who is of the opposite sex that they believe can give them a supply of compliments and boost of self esteem. 

I heartily agree with that bit. His friends are all people he does certain hobbies with (nothing wrong with that that's mostly how I make friends too) but the difference is that he seems to easily make new ones, and there will always be an attractive female as a part of that group to boost him up.

They also seem to have cars, and he doesn't have a car, so they also seemed to be picked by both likeability and usefulness.

I am likeable to him, but currently not useful, and eventually irritating him because of this.

I have mostly friends from hobbies, and new friends that I can't call in the middle of the night. I'm trying to get those close friends, but it takes time. I have to start again, and I've been so busy it's hard.

The thing is I don't pick my friends on usefulness, just likeability.

If they are good looking and own a car-- it's a bonus ---not something I'm trying to win over, and I think that distinguishes me from someone with BPD.

There are some things I also don't tell people when we first meet, but after two years if I didn't tell them by then... .  well they aren't really a good friend.

[TheDude]

Jumping in a little late on this thread, but... .  

None. She's estranged from her entire extended family, including being banned from all weddings and funerals. Her brother is the only one she ever talks to. Friends? In real life - one that I know of from childhood (a guy) that she sees in person maybe once a year? I've never met him. Otherwise, in real life? Nada. And naturally, all of her family and former friends are "toxic and nuts". What she does is cultivate friends on-line, only a few of who she ever sees (and maybe once a year, at that).

One of the last things she said to me (as she was ejecting me for the 4th time) was how sad she was to be losing her best friend.

You don't say?   

[WT]

One of the last things she said to me (as she was ejecting me for the 4th time) was how sad she was to be losing her best friend.

You don't say?   

My ex said the same thing to me as she was leaving me for another guy.   You and I should be giving each other whatever the opposite of a high five is.

[ScotisGone74]

Ha, mine said while crying that she just wanted her best friend back, while hiding some guy in her house. 

[syz]

Yeah I never met one close friend and she had lived in that city for 20 years.  I had more friends living there for 4 years.  Not great friends like my best friends who live in different cities... but she didn't have friendships like the two I'm fortunate to have... they are like family. 

She said she wanted to be in the same league as my two closest friends are to me at one point.  I said well... that would take some time to see.  I met one in 89 and the other in 98, I think that kind of offended her.  Tough crap.  You don't become that level of friend unless you've been through some real intense stuff together and know you can depend on them and they you. 

I'm also really close with my sister and one of my cousins... i have some problems with my parents but I'm not alone in that either.   It seems as if she is the only one having the issues with her family that she has, her sisters don't seem to but I'm not close enough to make that call.