Need Your Advice On This One

[Parents! Get help here!]

To summarize, we had asked our ds28 to find another place to live just after Thanksgiving due to smoking in bed after giving him several chances to stop. He couch surfed for awhile and then lived with a good friend for the month of January thanks to our $500 rent check, which we told him was a one time thing. Our ds28 and that friend are no longer speaking due to some incident. Today I saw photos on her FB page and understood why she had terminated her friendship with him. Guess what? There in his sleeping area were a small pile of cigarette butts along with a sheet with about 6 burn holes. Ahhhhhhhhhh!

Next living arrangement... .  with a friend for about 3 weeks. That "friend" packed up our ds28's stuff and put it out on the sidewalk claiming he had taken money from his pant's pockets. I don't know if the cigs were an issue in this case. Because we couldn't bear to see him live in his car or shelter, we told him he could sleep on our downstairs couch until he found a room to rent. GOOD NEWS... .  he did find a 30 hour per week job... .  that's huge... .  BUT FOR GOD'S SAKE... .  Would someone please explain to me how he thinks it's OK to smoke indoors and then go to sleep? It got him kicked out of his house and then to go and do the same exact thing at someone elses house! I am now convinced that eventually he will die in a house fire but it certainly won't be in our house.

I am soo angry but I feel I need to sit down and in wisemind, discuss this behavior with him as a father would to his son who's almost 29. As with any other conversation such as this, I have to pick a time when he's in a fairly good mood and is willing to talk with an open mind and not accuse him of anything.

What do I do... .  try to explain to him how this behavior is simply not acceptable with ANYONE and is quite possibly the reason why nobody wants him to stay at their house, OR, do I just shut the hell up and let it go and count down the days when he's found his own place?

I can't believe I would even need to think about talking to anyone about this! Your advice/feedback is always greatly appreciated.

RG

[radioguitarguy]

To summarize, we had asked our ds28 to find another place to live just after Thanksgiving due to smoking in bed after giving him several chances to stop. He couch surfed for awhile and then lived with a good friend for the month of January thanks to our $500 rent check, which we told him was a one time thing. Our ds28 and that friend are no longer speaking due to some incident. Today I saw photos on her FB page and understood why she had terminated her friendship with him. Guess what? There in his sleeping area were a small pile of cigarette butts along with a sheet with about 6 burn holes. Ahhhhhhhhhh!

Next living arrangement... .  with a friend for about 3 weeks. That "friend" packed up our ds28's stuff and put it out on the sidewalk claiming he had taken money from his pant's pockets. I don't know if the cigs were an issue in this case. Because we couldn't bear to see him live in his car or shelter, we told him he could sleep on our downstairs couch until he found a room to rent. GOOD NEWS... .  he did find a 30 hour per week job... .  that's huge... .  BUT FOR GOD'S SAKE... .  Would someone please explain to me how he thinks it's OK to smoke indoors and then go to sleep? It got him kicked out of his house and then to go and do the same exact thing at someone elses house! I am now convinced that eventually he will die in a house fire but it certainly won't be in our house.

I am soo angry but I feel I need to sit down and in wisemind, discuss this behavior with him as a father would to his son who's almost 29. As with any other conversation such as this, I have to pick a time when he's in a fairly good mood and is willing to talk with an open mind and not accuse him of anything.

What do I do... .  try to explain to him how this behavior is simply not acceptable with ANYONE and is quite possibly the reason why nobody wants him to stay at their house, OR, do I just shut the hell up and let it go and count down the days when he's found his own place?

I can't believe I would even need to think about talking to anyone about this! Your advice/feedback is always greatly appreciated.

RG

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[mamachelle]

Hi RGG

My kids are younger, but i think it's about setting a boundary in this case or enforcing one.

I just think these kids whether they are 8 or 28 have a very very hard time with seeing the world or their behaviors from another perspective other than their immediate need to -- in this case-- smoke which is an oral fixation as well as addiction. It's also completely dangerous and driving you nuts I think.

Have you read up on boundaries, extinction bursts, and the like? I don't want to be telling you something you've heard a million times. You do need to think about your safety versus ignoring.

Family guide to BPD by Randi Kreger has excellent advice and an easy read. I was able to start using her tips the same day.

[lbjnltx]

Hello Radioguitarguy   


I'm sorry to hear that your son isn't willing to take responsibility for his actions nor see that he doesn't have the right to endanger other people's lives or property.  This is the crux of the matter... .  right?

You are correct that the right moment needs to be chosen to address this with him.  Validating his feelings regarding wanting to have the convenience of smoking in his bed and following up with validating questions that keep the responsibility where it belongs... .  with him does need to be done.  These validating questions, during "teaching moments" may or may not lead him in the direction of recognizing that meeting his needs at the expense of others is not ok.

Let us know if you need to bounce some ideas about how to do this.

We are here to help.


lbjnltx

[vivekananda]

Hi there Radioguitarguy,

What a life we parents of adult BPD kids have eh? Worrying about our grownup children behaving so irresponsibly and engaging in risky behaviour that is so immature. Who would have thought when we held them as babes in our arms we would be feeling like this?

I have a few thoughts, I hope I can be succinct.

lbj refers to 'teaching moments' as a possibility. I am not so sure it is possible to do that in this situation. I believe your son knows full well that he is behaving in a dangerous way and one which offends others too. I think he chooses to ignore this to suit himself and avoid accepting responsibility - there will be all sorts of reasons.

So, if you raise it with him, you will be forcing him to face something he has consciously chosen not to face already. If you raise it with him, you endanger sounding judgemental and that is invalidating to him. No-one wants to be told they are doing something wrong, especially if they decide they will continue to do just that if only to spite you... . 

So, what do you do? I think there are two approaches that could be possible.

1) What he is doing is a habit. What he needs to do is break the habit. The easy way to break one type of 'ritual' experience is replace it with another. So, he is lying in bed, relaxing and thinking and smoking - because he enjoys it. It is also a crutch if he is having trouble sleeping. Is there something else he could do instead? If it were me, I'd have a cd at hand with a meditation or meditative music that I would play. Currently my sleeping ritual requires listening to a current affairs program on the radio   the topics are interesting but the interviewer is boring - ideal for me! When he was a baby you would have had a getting ready for bed ritual... .  clean the teeth, read a story... .  So, can you think of something you can gift him as a replacement ritual? Don't talk about stopping smoking in bed, talk about breaking an unhelpful habit - so the habit, the ritual becomes a problem to be solved, his smoking is not the problem. (I hope that makes sense)

2) It is possible according the Non Violent Communication (NVC) principles to ask for a change in behaviour from someone else - equal to equal. Put it as a request, using a specific formula suggested by Rosenberg - it worked for me the one time I did it with my dh   Now when I wash the dishes he (mostly) gets up to dry them without me asking - that was a big advance  

A) So, we are 'requesting that which would enrich life' we use positive, specific language: "I would like you to change your habit of smoking in bed." it must be a request, not a demand:

Requests vs demands:

• We someone hears a demand from us they see two options: rebel or submit

• To tell if it’s a request or a demand, observe what the speaker does if the request is not complied with

• If it’s a demand the speaker criticises or judges

• If it’s a demand the speaker lays a guilt trip

• It’s a request if the speaker then shows empathy towards the other person’s needs.

B) We spell out our objective when making the request. For example: "When I know you are not smoking in bed, I am able to sleep comfortably knowing that everyone in my family is safe inside our house." If you choose to let him home again for a second chance. Or if you don't - but you will then need to rephrase it a little. The important thing is that you explain what it will mean to you, not what it will do for him. It is your request, he can help you; not you are telling him how to live his life... .  gee I hope that makes sense.

good luck radioguitarguy, let us know what you think.

cheers,

Vivek   

[mamachelle]

Perhaps a combination of all of the above and electronic cigarettes and nicotine gum. If you make it so that he comes to this conclusion he could own it and feel like he solved the problem.

Asking how to replace the ritual to make it safe without removing the cigarette or the fix just the danger? Prompting him to come up with solutions... .  

I don't know but I agree it is about all that lbj and Vivek  are saying but I do think since you let him back in, the boundary is unclear so there needs to be something in place to protect you and teach him which is ultimately to protect him  as well.

This is hard to deal with in my younger kids, it must be so hard in older kids.

Bigger kids, bigger problems they say 

[peaceplease]

Funny, about the smoking and falling asleep. My dd would do that.  And, she was not to smoke in her room. That was a big factor in me wanting her out of the house. And, then she witnessed her brother smoking while all high, and feared him falling asleep and burnign her apt. down.  She then apologized to me because she realized my previous fears.

From what I hear, the ecigs are a great substituion for indorr smoking.

[Kate4queen]

I'm not sure if this will help, but have you thought about approaching it from another direction and focusing his attention on finding somewhere else to live? Maybe giving him a deadline or something? It also is something you can do to re-establish your boundaries within your home and get him out but doesn't give him an opportunity to get angry, which he probably will do if you target the dangerous behavior