Setting boundaries successfully

[Parents! Get help here!]

  Hi all

I am hoping you can give me some advice. My daughter is 20 with BPD and lives with me and her son. Because she is an adult, I find it hard to set boundaries for her. I have not been able to work out how to do that without slipping into the old patterns of when she was younger and you could ground or take something away (not that they worked anyway).

I want to be able to create a better environment in our home, I feel like I am always on the backfoot and always struggling with trust - the ultimate walking on eggshells 24/7. I need to feel like I am doing something constructive.

Any advice on where to start?

[Mandii]

  Hi all

I am hoping you can give me some advice. My daughter is 20 with BPD and lives with me and her son. Because she is an adult, I find it hard to set boundaries for her. I have not been able to work out how to do that without slipping into the old patterns of when she was younger and you could ground or take something away (not that they worked anyway).

I want to be able to create a better environment in our home, I feel like I am always on the backfoot and always struggling with trust - the ultimate walking on eggshells 24/7. I need to feel like I am doing something constructive.

Any advice on where to start?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[sunshineplease]

Hey, Mandii. My understanding is that the boundaries are really for and about you -- what you will accept (in terms of her behavior) or what/how much you are willing to do for your daughter. The consequences would also follow what you're willing to do. So, for example, if she yells at you, the consequence might be that you won't speak to her until she can speak in a acceptable tone of voice. If she leaves home abruptly and stops all contact, the consequence might be that you change the locks and she's not welcome to live there anymore. Again, it's not about punishment, but letting you have a life that makes sense to you and your values.

I've found that the clearer I can be on what my values actually are (not triangulating, not enabling... .  ), the easier it is to say a firm "no" and mean it. I just called my daughter's RTC to let them know she was violating internet policy by contacting me/being on FB. It was hard, because my old self would see doing that as a violation of her trust. This time, I realized I wanted to act in accordance with my values and not my fears -- in this case, I want her (and me) to follow the rules set up for her protection, even if it means she's mad at me. Hard, but it felt right.

[griz]

Mandii:  I think sunshines explanation is good in that boundaries are about you.  I had a very difficult time understanding this and then following through but once I did it became easier.  I did try it in small steps first, just simple things like not getting up to get her a soda when she felt like it because she didn't feel like getting off the couch.  In the beginning I did whatever she wanted to keep her happy and keep the peace.  I would just say if you would like to wait till I need to go in the kitchen for something its no problem but I am not getting up right now.  She tried everything to get her way, first joking making sad faces, then pleasssssee always came then anger.  There were times when I would see her getting angry and my heart would start pounding afraid that there would be a blow up but I held my boundary.  She either got up and got it or she didn't get it and she got over her anger.  Each time I was able to enforce a boundary the next one got easier.

Boundary for last night.  Today is DD's birthday, she is having a few friends over.  Last night she was bored and I was exhausted.  She asked me to take her to the party store to buy a few things for her get together.  I was just too tired and I told her so.  She then asked dh to take her and he also said he was exhausted.  I added, we can go tomorrow if you like, you will have plenty of time before your friends come over but tonight is not good.  She rolled her eyes (typical teenage reaction) and just said okay. 


Griz

[Mandii]

Thanks Griz & Sunshine... .  gives me some really clear information and a few ideas of where to start. I think starting small is a good idea. I have set my first one tonight... .  and will try to stand firm. It's the hardest thing to move from thinking about her first and putting my needs first. Thanks guys xxxx

[griz]

Mandi:  It was very hard and still is for me to think of myself first instead of DD, I think for a multitude of reasons.  First of all I was raised to put others first.  This is my nature and my first instinct.  I grew up seeing my mother do this and I learned from her.  Secondly when DD was going through her worst of times I would literally jump through hoops to keep her happy. I was frightened and scared and it also kept the peace in the house. In doing this for so long I realize now that I set up a pattern which is very hard to break.  DD became very use to us all jumping when ever she wanted us to and that any behavior from her was excused. 

I am still a work in progress with this although I am making strides albeit small but each boundary I set and stick to is an accomplishment.  To me it doesn't matter how small and I pat myself on the back each time I stick to it.  I just keep reminding myself that I have to do this for ME.  I have seen my health deterorate over the past two years and my mental health has also suffered from the exhaustion. I try to remind myself that my boundaries help me and DD.  Keep us updated on how it is going and we can always give each other some advice on what works and what doesn't

Griz

[somuchlove]

Boundaries have been very hard for me as well.  We all have probably been trained by our BPD child very well.  Do what I say and I will ( might be ok )  it never seems to work for the long term.  I still battle with all of this as I think we have learned that we are suppose to keep our children safe and happy and as a parent you sacrifice to make that happen.  If they are hurting then you are hurting.  It almost goes against nature to do different.  Oh it is easy to do the small boundaries, like don't touch the stove it is hot, don't play in the street, wear your seat belt.  Those are no brainers and I can't ever think of not setting those simple boundaries.  I have tried to put my boundaries in that sort of perspective.  You set them so your child will grow up to be happy, able to hold down a job, work with people, etc etc.  If you don't then they usually struggle.  Setting boundaries for a BPD has to be similar.  I am not totally convinced but learning that giving in doesn't make it better so I need to try what those that are trained tell us.  SET BOUNDARIES ! !   I guess they must be right. 

I am not sure I am doing it right but will continue to try.  The other thing is when it affects BPD children, my grandchildren it is tough because some boundaries, like not helping with money, etc may directly affect them. 

[pessim-optimist]

Hi Mandii,  

Boundaries are so important, and they are so often so difficult for us, because we know that it will trigger negative reaction from our loved one at first and often even worsening of their behavior at first.

So, we need to know that, need to know what our boundaries are before we try to establish them, and be ready for their possible reactions ahead of time.

I have to say that it is so easy in theory, but in practice it may prove really hard - it has for my husband and I with our step-daughter. So, I wish you all the best, try your best and be gentle with yourself, if you struggle in the beginning. Don't give up, we are all at different stages of working through the process, and we get better at it as time goes on.  

There is a good video about boundaries:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=85_eYftuv0k

R. Kreger talks about the 5 steps to setting boundaries. Also, there's a good description about that in her book:

"The Essential Family Guide to BPD"

One of the points that caught my attention was: Don't set boundaries before you are ready! And, If you set a boundary and then go back on it, you are worse off, than if you would not set one... .  

Boundaries have been very hard for me as well.  We all have probably been trained by our BPD child very well.  :)o what I say and I will ( might be ok )  it never seems to work for the long term.  I still battle with all of this as I think we have learned that we are suppose to keep our children safe and happy and as a parent you sacrifice to make that happen.  If they are hurting then you are hurting.  It almost goes against nature to do different.  Oh it is easy to do the small boundaries, like don't touch the stove it is hot, don't play in the street, wear your seat belt.  Those are no brainers and I can't ever think of not setting those simple boundaries.  I have tried to put my boundaries in that sort of perspective... .  

Somuchlove,

I agree that as we love our children, we are trying to bring them up and protect them and set rules for their behavior, so that they remain healthy and develop to their full potential. But I think that what the books on BPD call "boundaries" is something a bit different... .  

What the books describe is something we primarily do for OUR OWN sake (not for the sake of our children). It may have a positive side-effect on their behavior in the long run and is healthier for them as well, but the PRIMARY function of the "boundaries" is to serve as a sort of protection for us, so that our lives remain intact, safe and healthy, and in line with our values.

And as we create our own safe environment (surrounded by those boundaries), we can then reach out to help our loved ones with BPD.

Does that make sense?

[somuchlove]

Does make some sense to me.  I probably didn't use the best examples.  The mom in me comes out, protect my babies.   .  So setting boundaries to my BPD dd is saying what I can do and can't do for her or will tolerate.  I will watch the video when I am home. 

I can see that we must stick with our boundaries after giving careful toughts to them.  It is hard to know which ones become the more important to set.  I would be interested in know some specific boundaries that others have felt important in making their relationships better.   $$$'s I can help you with, how you talk to me , letting me know when you can call, when i am busy and can't return my call... .  ?   

[Being Mindful]

I think it is easy to confuse boundaries and contracts.

Boundaries are not punishment. They are your value based beliefs that you draw upon and enforce in all relationships. They protect you and your relationships. If your friend was verbally abusing you what would you do? If your friend was demanding of all your time and held you hostage, what would you do? If your friend was sending you 30 text messages a day, what would you do? Now, take out friend and insert daughter/son.

Contracts with our d. were meant to say... .  if you do this, then the consequence is this. It is rules that we expected our d. to follow.

Each of these were enforced everytime.

Being Mindful

[griz]

somuchlove;  I don't know if this will help at all but I have a few examples of setting boundaries. These I had to learn to set and they were not easy.

DD just turned 18 and does not drive.  She goes to school right near my office so we drive in together.  I like to leave at 7:15 because I like to get in early and start my day when the office is quiet.  DD was constantly late and this would make me very anxious and I don't like to start my day this way.  MY boundary was to say, "I am leaving at 7:15am, I need  you to be on time.  If you are late I cannot drop you off at class you will have to walk from my office."  The first few times she was late and it is cold and nasty so early in the morning I had a hard time not dropping her off but I drove straight to my office.  I did not make an issue of it, in fact I said nothing, and just drove to my office.  She was quite pissed off at me the first few times and left in a huff, slamming the car door and stomping off.  As she walked away I had a pit in my stomach but I kept reminding myself that I was doing the right thing for me.  She is usually on time now and if she is late I still keep the same boundary in place.

DD works in my office part time.  She makes a decent amount of money to buy things for herself but she is constantly forgetting to put her debit card in her wallet and then asking me for money on the way to school.  Could I give her $5, yes but that is not the point.  So I told her she needs to be more responsible.  Last week she had class at 8am.  She was running a little late and forgot her debit card and did not have breakfast or even a drink before we left.  When we got to school she asked me for money to get something to eat and have coffee.  My answer was, " No, I just have money to get myself a cup of tea this morning, you will need to be more responsible with your debit card".  Once again she was pissed and when she got to my office after class she told me that she thought she was dehydrated (just a little drama here).  So I said, well there is water in the kitchen and free coffee, you work here so feel free to help yourself. 

I know these things sound ridiculously petty but they are the small boundaries that I have started.  I think of them as building blocks and every time I accomplish one it makes the next one easier.  I also find that practicing them with DD has also helped me to set boundaries in my life with others.  I am the constant pleaser.  It is from my upbringing and unfortunately it has taught me never to say no and to put others first.  I am unlearning these behaviors and I also think it is good for both of my daughters to learn that they can set boundaries also.

Griz

[mamachelle]

There is a good video about boundaries:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=85_eYftuv0k

R. Kreger talks about the 5 steps to setting boundaries. Also, there's a good description about that in her book:

"The Essential Family Guide to BPD"

One of the points that caught my attention was: Don't set boundaries before you are ready! And, If you set a boundary and then go back on it, you are worse off, than if you would not set one...

I think this concept is key. Extinction bursts-- read about those.! Before you try this at home

I am constantly reminding my NOnH that setting boundaries or limits with threats of punishment not carried through is worse than saying nothing at all.

He is finally getting it but old habits die hard.

Griz

Great examples with your D and the ride to school and debit card.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Annalind]

Thank you so much for all the helpful comments and information! I had already bought and read Stop Walking on Eggshells and found it very easy to read and enlightening. Now I have just watched the video about setting limits which I also found helpful. Your comments about setting boundaries for oneself is a new idea to me and a good one.  Have just embarked upon the journey of self-care.

I felt stuck in the relationship with my first husband who must have been pwBPD and abused alcohol, I let him away with a lot because of trying to protect the children, which he would hurt, mostly our own daughter if I didn't comply. I finally divorced him when our child was about 6 yrs but realized that she was seriously damaged and at 12 yrs they diagnosed her as having BPD. Life has been hell and then when she was 19 yrs she had a little boy whom I have helped take care of through the years and experienced the same pattern, i.e. being held hostage trying to protect the boy. Recently, due to a serious incident at Christmas I had to set a very important limit, like report her to the authorities resulting in a complete break with her and now my poor grandson. In spite of everything I am hoping for a positive outcome for him and maybe even her. Would appreciate som feedback! Tiger Lilly  

[Mandii]

Thanks everyone for so much great information. It is so great to be able to talk here and get heaps of information and ideas. Griz, I think your ideas are great, and I love the idea of starting with some small things. It is so hard sometimes, I look at my daughter and want her to be a "normal" 19 year old... .  you know... .  sounds terrible and feels terrible but I guess I just wish for better for her.

I have learnt so much here. I am a work in progress for sure learning and trying to set myself up for some success in this with her.

Thankyou so much for all your help... .  keep it coming

[pessim-optimist]

A great book on setting boundaries is actually called "Boundaries - when to say yes how to say no to take control of your life" by H. Cloud & J. Townsend. It's a christian book, but it is reader-friendly and people of all beliefs can benefit from it tremendously.

A counterpart to that would be "I don't have to make everything all better" by Garry & Joy Lundberg. That one is all about validation.

People here (and also books on BPD) talk about validation and values-based boundaries as the foundation for a successful (not problem-free) relationship with a pwBPD.

So, I would recommend these two books as supporting "bookends" to all of our other books about BPD.