Now she wants custody - what are my chances?

[Vinnie]

Today, one month after she files for divorce, she informs me she wants our s9 to live with her. He has primarily lived with me --say 25 days out of the month --since she moved out last September).

As calmly as I could, I told her I think he's better off staying with me. She commenced crying and raging, hung up, then her attorney leaves me a voice mail (I'm pro per so far) chastising me for "withholding my son" and "not letting her have him for the weekend."  He said, "When you do stuff like that, it can get very messy and expensive."  The trouble is, my wife and I never even spoke about this weekend, and I would never think about "withholding" my son from seeing his mom. Baldfaced lie.  So I called him back and said, "Jim, when my wife gets emotionally dysregulated, she says things she doesn't mean. Don't file the court motion just yet; just wait 24 hours, and there's a good chance she will be saying something different. He says, "Both parties do that when there's things like custody at stake."  I replied, "I DON'T... .   and I don't make things up." 

But to no avail. I guess we're going to court to get a parenting plan. So the custody battle commences. Was hoping that wouldn't happen, which is why I haven't retained an attorney before now, to keep things calm and friendly. Of course I'm retaining one now.

Here is what I have going for me: 

1) All five of our grown children (three are hers, two mine) will state on record that she is unstable (gentle way of saying "crazy" and it would not be healthy for their little brother to be raised by her.

2) Ten years ago she received an official diagnosis from a psychiatrist of mood disorder, pms syndrome, ADHD (4 out of seven types), and depression.

3) I kept a daily log since Dec 1st showing him with me 80% of the time.

4) I can't document it, but I've done the primary parenting since age 3 or 4. In the morning I get him up, feed him, get him ready and take him to school, and in the evening feed him, help with his homework, and put him to bed , 98% of the time, unless I am traveling.

5) She has been physically abusive. Police reports were taken twice. (Hope I can get them; they're not recent.)


Here is what she has going for her:

1) False accusations of whatever she wants

2) She is a well known/admired public figure in a small community. An advocate for domestic violence victims (ironically), she is regularly written up in the newspaper and interviewed on the radio, receives awards, etc. She works with the police and court system in the role of an advocate for victims and they love her. Point being, the judge may already be under the influence of her "wonderfulness."

Any random thoughts on my chances of keeping custody of my boy?

[marbleloser]

I'd say you have a good chance.STALL and keep documenting your time with your kid.You're establishing status quo.

[ForeverDad]

Marbleloser is correct, you're establishing the status quo.  The normal since she's been gone, some 6 months now and counting, is that your son has been living with you the majority of the time.  Courts are reluctant to change things without more input from evaluators or social workers, so said my lawyer, because they don't want to 'upset' the child or the child's normal routines and life.  Hopefully your gender won't negate that goal.

A typical schedule for a non-primary parent is alternate weekends and an evening or overnight in between.  Look up or ask what is a typical schedule issued by your local domestic or family court.

Beware that the court may face two parents both seeking majority time.  Sometimes that's due to the conflict, sometimes possessiveness, sometimes the parents not wanting to pay child support to the other parent, often a combination.  While you have history on your side, the judge may be inclined to split it down the middle anyway.  Ponder how you can avoid major changes to son's current patterns.

On the other hand, her gender does make her a Mother, quite an emotional pull and she does have a community presence as well.  So it won't be simple and certainly not a slam dunk.  One possible strategy, not the only one, is to bring witnesses with you to the initial hearing in case they are allowed to contribute their input.  You may even need some of the adult children to speak up on young son's behalf at the initial temporary order hearing so the judge doesn't make an arbitrary ruling that will hard to undo.  Perhaps the grown children's presence there would quietly give her incentive not to push for changes and accpt things the way they are.

Beware of a lawyer who says, as mine did, ":)on't worry if the temp order isn't good, we'll change it later."  Typically it is very hard to change a temp order midstream during the divorce.  High conlict divorces take much longer than the typical ones.  (Mine went 3 times longer than my lawyer's initial estimate of 7-9 months.  Part of the reason it took so long was that my ex had a very favorable temp order and so she was in no rush to get to the final decree that would end her favored status.)

Temp orders have a habit of morphing into permanent ones.  Again, it's often the court's view not to change what seems to have been working.

In my case, the magistrate asked us ONE question at our very first appearance together - about our work schedules.  When she said "I work from home" - even though my temp protection order prevented her from being being anywhere near the family residence - he assigned her as temp custodial parent with majority time.  Even though there were two interim reports during the divorce stating I should have significantly more parenting time than what was specified in the temp order, it wasn't changed until the divorce's final decree some two years later.

[momtara]

My husband did the same thing two weekends ago, claim I'm withholding visitation.  My lawyer talked his lawyer out of filing an order to show cause.  Thing is, I had so much evidence that he was making it up.  however, he made up three FAKE emails that he claimed he sent me, saying he was coming for the weekend.

It is frustrating dealing with spouses who can just flat-out lie.  It makes both sides look bad because we have to defend ourselves.

That said, courts are unwilling to upset the status quo.  Your journal is a very good thing.  Tape all conversations and save all emails.  I think you have a good chance IF you have a lawyer who can calmly show the evidence.  Get someone who seems confident about going to court but doesn't want to take all your money and go crazy.

I prefer not to go in front of a judge, just because you neve rknow what will happen, but you have the facts and evidence on your side.  As long as you have a lawyer, you should be ok.

[hell0kitty]

We are in the thick on a parenting plan eval, and we have noticed that they are most interested in the last 12 months more than anything else.  I mean, they look at older stuff, but all of their questions so far have revolved specifically around the last 12 months. Which leads me to believe if you have them 80% of the time for the last 12 months, and they are thriving, when you walk into court, you are in a very good place!

[livednlearned]

Good that you have retained an L.

I'm curious about your observation that your ex has a good public reputation -- it might not be as positive as you think. I think of relationships as rings, with your marriage and kids as the first ring, then employers and coworkers as the second ring, then the public as the third ring -- there is no question that the first ring experiences the disorder. But so does the second ring a lot of time. It's harder to gauge, because we don't interact with our ex's coworkers. But I found out after my divorce that N/BPDx is considered a sonof@b!tch to his colleagues. His boss tried to fire him. Your wife may actually have enemies inside the court system, but you don't know. They may be thinking exactly what you're thinking, that she gets great press and the public loves her, and to themselves they're thinking, "That woman is crazy."

In some cases, the public may get involved in messy family law cases. That happened in my town when a woman was diagnosed with cancer, and the ex (who seemed BPD to me) moved four states away and filed for sole custody. And was successful. The firestorm of public opinion was intense, but it didn't sway the way the court ruled, it just divided people who didn't know enough about the case and generated a lot of publicity.

I know you're looking for more concrete advice here, but I felt it was worth mentioning -- sometimes we make things seem more daunting when we only see the parts that worry us. Surprising things happen, and sometimes they go our way 

[Vinnie]

Thanks everybody, a lot.

I HATE the thought of having the children show up to court to say she shouldn't have residential custody.  The kids would do it, but I don't know if my wife would survive it, seriously.

So my thought is this: communicate to her that if she backs off and accepts the status quo, we don't go before the judge, her kids don't tell the world that she's a marginal mother, and I won't ask for child support.

The only thing about not asking for child support is, she IS seeking to manipulate the spousal support outcome by lying about her income. Her non profit has $200K set aside (from a donation) for her compensation. Her board approved $50K per year, but she voluntarily cut it down (before getting her attorney) to 1/3 of that, because... .   well, it's obvious why.  But she's trying her hardest to dispute those facts and play the poor, impoverished single mom. 

I wonder, why do I keep caring about her feelings? The kids have been frustrated with me for a long time for always protecting her from her poor choices. But the thought of playing hardball still rips me up--even when she is full tilt. All I have to do is see her break down and cry, and all the rescuing instincts take over and I turn to ooze, even when I know her act is probably a manipulation at its core!

[Vinnie]

Livedandlearned,

You are spot on -- she does have enemies.  Just this week, she had to fire a key employee, her Shelter Manager for going around town saying my wife was misappropriating from the organization, getting together inappropriately with male supporters, and other really bad things. (Not all of it untrue!)  I don't know what would be gained by bringing them in, except to just lend credence to the fact that her life is in chaos much of the time.

[momtara]

>>I wonder, why do I keep caring about her feelings?

Yeah, I'm the same way, no matter how many times he lies, manipulates, and hurts the kids.  I think we want to believe there's a good person down there.  Maybe there is.  But there's only so much a person can take.

[livednlearned]

Livedandlearned,

You are spot on -- she does have enemies.  Just this week, she had to fire a key employee, her Shelter Manager for going around town saying my wife was misappropriating from the organization, getting together inappropriately with male supporters, and other really bad things. (Not all of it untrue!)  I don't know what would be gained by bringing them in, except to just lend credence to the fact that her life is in chaos much of the time.

She may be very motivated to keep this out of court, so consider this level of mud-slinging to be an extreme point in the process. Hopefully, she recognizes how excruciating it would be to have her reputation destroyed publicly, and she agrees to settle. A lot of members here seem to have the experience that their spouses settle the day of court, and that could happen with your case as well.

You have to have a goal and a plan and stick to it. Especially because you have a strong instinct to rescue someone who abuses you. I did the same thing in my marriage, except my son got through to me. One night, after N/BPDx got stinking drunk and verbally/emotionally and psychologically abused S8, I justified his dad's behavior. S8 said to me, "I don't care if he had a mom who did that to him, that doesn't make it right for him to do that to me."

It hit me like a train -- I realized I was protecting this mean drunk, instead of protecting my child.

When you rescue your ex, you are doing the same thing to your kids that I did to mine. Your kids are telling you that you are doing it, and they are probably pissed about it, if not deeply traumatized. Pick your kids and put them first, and make sure that every decision you make is to do what's best for them. Your wife has destroyed the covenant you had when you married her, and she should lose the privilege of having her feelings taken into consideration going forward. It doesn't mean that you purposefully set out to hurt her, it just means that you do what you need to take care of yourself and the kids, and she is on her own.

When I stood up to a bully -- N/BPDx -- it changed my son forever. Give that experience to your kids. It might change their lives too.

[ForeverDad]

I wonder, why do I keep caring about her feelings? The kids have been frustrated with me for a long time for always protecting her from her poor choices. But the thought of playing hardball still rips me up--even when she is full tilt.

Have you considered that not listening to your children is invalidating them?  Most of us here were/are of the sort that avoid conflict and are reluctant to let go of our hopes and dreams.  Sadly, dreams are unrealistic.  In weddings, yes.  In divorces, no.

Yes, defend yourself well.  What you do or don't do will likely not change how she sees you.  Currently you're Mr Evil Personified.  She is attacking you.  Defend yourself.

As an illustration... .   Imagine you're being mauled by a tiger and someone nearby tells you how to get away to safety, would you answer, "No, I'll stay here, I don't want to upset the tiger"?  Would you answer, "No, I feel sorry for the tiger"?

A bigger hell in two meanings:

-   Her hate will probably become even bigger and how will that evolve in actions?

-   I know she is sick. Can I live with myself if she’s punished for behavior, that’s coming from her illness?

She is not a child, she is an adult.  An adult is expected to be a responsible person and ought to suffer deserved consequences.  How else will she learn there are limits?  (Frankly, she will likely never learn but if you don't protect yourself she'll keep ripping you to shreds.)

Needless to say, the marriage is OVER.  There is no hope left.  Don't think for even a moment that some day you can get back together again.  You can't risk a repeat.

Stop worrying about her and worry about your own future which she has singlehandedly put at severe risk!  Something we often say here, The misbehaving spouse seldom has consequences and the behaving spouse never gets credit.  Ponder that.  It is so true.  Taking the high road, saying nothing to defend yourself or reveal who is really the one misbehaving and being the silent noble one will sink you.