First post in "Undecided"...

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I joined this board a few weeks ago after a horrific reunion with my ex fiancee whom I broke off with more than 3 years ago... .   We maintained connection closely since we met almost 6 years ago till present.

I finally figured out she was so obviously BPD in December when we had a rather large financial/business investment that put me at complete risk, without so much as a handshake... .   it was a difficult transaction and she was always honorable about financial matters but this was enough money to really solve her problems for awhile... .  

The reason I mention it, is that she handled it all so perfectly, it was the thing that finally made me really look into what could be wrong with her... .   as "Sociopath' which i had suspected, just didn't fit... .   every single time we had problems in the past, she never benefited ... .

This was the key to learning she was BPD and while she wont or cant say the words now, she gets it and is coming around to working on her life (for herself) in a positive way... .

I see her (and others described here) as wounded pets that were abused by former owners or life in general... .  

I would rate her illness as moderate... .   she doesn't rage ever... . she is not a cheater in the classic sense but her behavior in the beginning is the root of my almost PTSD that I still carry.

I don't want to go on and on about dreaming it will just work out... . I know she loves me deeply as i love her... . we are a great couple in many and almost all ways... .   yet of course this illness is specific and I am not sure even if she commits to doing specific therapy (together as well) what the odds are we can make it.

In a way this is might be my way of really ending it in a way that makes orderly sense... . In control and with decency and honor... .

I do know what she is capable of... .   she used to think i was easily replaceable... .   she learned that's not the case... .

She is not dating but has not asked if I am... .   I am really a one at a time guy... . but i did make plans to see someone and feel weird about that... .   maybe it's to make me feel less vulnerable and she has had someone she has had a stormy relationship wiht for 10 months... .   he wouldbreak up with her... . she would with him... . just like it was for me in the beginning and this time she would see me a couple of times in the middle,

I am just learning the lingo of BPD... .   'splitting' 'painting black', "idealization' etc.

These are all things I was aware of since literally day one but didnt have names for it.

I guess I want to give it my best shot to learn how best I can proceed not to trigger her (and I know i have intentionally out of self defense) but at the same time not to exist with her without a sense of self.

This is a bit hard to post... .   I have worked very very hard since we broke up to get my life together... . and it's a very good life... .   yes I am lonely and i have dated many women and not yet found one to settle down with... .   I'm not a dreamer and boy I was as head over heels with my ex as undoubtedly most of you can related to.

thanks for reading and don't hammer me too hard with "I told you so's" when it all falls apart... .  

[Hurt llama]

I joined this board a few weeks ago after a horrific reunion with my ex fiancee whom I broke off with more than 3 years ago... .   We maintained connection closely since we met almost 6 years ago till present.

I finally figured out she was so obviously BPD in December when we had a rather large financial/business investment that put me at complete risk, without so much as a handshake... .   it was a difficult transaction and she was always honorable about financial matters but this was enough money to really solve her problems for awhile... .  

The reason I mention it, is that she handled it all so perfectly, it was the thing that finally made me really look into what could be wrong with her... .   as "Sociopath' which i had suspected, just didn't fit... .   every single time we had problems in the past, she never benefited ... .

This was the key to learning she was BPD and while she wont or cant say the words now, she gets it and is coming around to working on her life (for herself) in a positive way... .

I see her (and others described here) as wounded pets that were abused by former owners or life in general... .  

I would rate her illness as moderate... .   she doesn't rage ever... . she is not a cheater in the classic sense but her behavior in the beginning is the root of my almost PTSD that I still carry.

I don't want to go on and on about dreaming it will just work out... . I know she loves me deeply as i love her... . we are a great couple in many and almost all ways... .   yet of course this illness is specific and I am not sure even if she commits to doing specific therapy (together as well) what the odds are we can make it.

In a way this is might be my way of really ending it in a way that makes orderly sense... . In control and with decency and honor... .

I do know what she is capable of... .   she used to think i was easily replaceable... .   she learned that's not the case... .

She is not dating but has not asked if I am... .   I am really a one at a time guy... . but i did make plans to see someone and feel weird about that... .   maybe it's to make me feel less vulnerable and she has had someone she has had a stormy relationship wiht for 10 months... .   he wouldbreak up with her... . she would with him... . just like it was for me in the beginning and this time she would see me a couple of times in the middle,

I am just learning the lingo of BPD... .   'splitting' 'painting black', "idealization' etc.

These are all things I was aware of since literally day one but didnt have names for it.

I guess I want to give it my best shot to learn how best I can proceed not to trigger her (and I know i have intentionally out of self defense) but at the same time not to exist with her without a sense of self.

This is a bit hard to post... .   I have worked very very hard since we broke up to get my life together... . and it's a very good life... .   yes I am lonely and i have dated many women and not yet found one to settle down with... .   I'm not a dreamer and boy I was as head over heels with my ex as undoubtedly most of you can related to.

thanks for reading and don't hammer me too hard with "I told you so's" when it all falls apart... .  

[daze]

Hi HL -

That's great that she's beginning to acknowledge her issues and work on herself.  Sounds like you took a chance with her in December and she didn't let you down, which would be encouraging to anyone involved with a pwBPD.

The reason I mention it, is that she handled it all so perfectly, it was the thing that finally made me really look into what could be wrong with her... .   as "Sociopath' which i had suspected, just didn't fit.

I haven't seen your other posts and wondered why you originally suspected she is a sociopath?

I guess I want to give it my best shot to learn how best I can proceed not to trigger her (and I know i have intentionally out of self defense) but at the same time not to exist with her without a sense of self.

I'm not sure what you mean? From my experience, my pwBPD will trigger and most of the time it's not related to me or our r/s.  When this happens it's confusing and I don't know how to respond.  It can be tricky to use the communication tools shared on this site if you don't know what the trigger is.  Other than to ask them what is bothering them by making observation statements, which doesn't always work.  Whereas, when I (or something in the r/s) causes the trigger, I can usually validate and SET to help calm the reaction.

I don't think we have any control over the pwBPD's sense of self - if I understand what you are saying correctly.  Sense of self, or lack of it, is their issue.  And it's a gray area in my experience with my pwBPD.

People here don't seem to hammer others when it doesn't work out because in some way we have all been there.  The main thing is to define your boundaries and to take good care of yourself.  Good luck!

Daze

[Hurt llama]

Thank you Daze... .

I'm as in love with her as ever... .   and i know she feels the same... .   I just spoke with her for about an hour and we touched on some very touchy subject... .   a supreme trigger for me... . I was as careful as i could be and used humor but spoke about I would not have been intimate with her if she was with her bf... . and the fact that she went back to him when she got back was ... . umm... .   problematic... .

i was as light as could be considering my heart was starting to pound and she cooly said... . in clear and true tones... . "I told you, if I were with you, I never would be with anyone else. I broke up with him."

Anyway... . without going into more detail i centered myself and just said (this is video chat"... .   Listen... .   I know you mean that sincerely... .   but you do realize how ridiculous it sounds... . right?

And amazingly... .   5 minutes later she stopped suddenly... .   and said directly... .   "I am going to tell you something that is important... . and i know you want to hear too. I want you to know... .   that the things you have been telling me about myself... .   I am starting to get it... . " (that's a paraphrase)... .

Those words to me, would have meant nothing to me a few weeks ago and they don't mean we're clear sailing either... . but i was surprised she said it as she really has zero guilt it would seem and she can easily make a case for those actions or others that have been... .   umm... .   let's just say... .   some of the worst pain ever for me.

It was a nice conversation... .   she's coming in two weeks... . I told her to stop proposing... . even if she's joking... . and that we both know if I did, she would panic and if i dont she will panic... .   she laughed as she knows it's true.

I have to remember now posting... . that my goal is to just focus on myself as much as i can, and as she wants... .   let life happen a bit... .  

I was clear... .   andn she got it... .   if we are to even attempt any restart it is going to be very slow and steady... .   and let's try to have some fun... . with less drama... .

and i hate to admit... . that the drama mostly last visit was me way over reacting to her... . and expecting the worst and looking for trouble.

I guess what I am trying to do is approach this in a new way and for the last time... . if i see there is no movement forward in both of us taking it seriously in learning how to communicate... . i will be able to finally get the freedom of an ending or the beginning of a beginning... .

sorry for the rambling post... .   it's so late!

thank you for the post!

[Hurt llama]

daze

re read your response and what I am learning and going to be using wiht her (and I know this would be good for me to learn for any relationship) is to detach a bit and to learn some of the tools and ways to address things without reacting or should i say over reacting (which I know I do).

It is a breath of fresh air to approach things this way for me... .   I take things and make thing way too personal... .   i tend to be this way in life... . it's not a huge problem but it is with her... .   and it's the result of complicated dynamics and having lived through some really bad times when she hurt me and I really hurt her back... .  

And now I am starting to look at the whole history with a bit more 'power'... . that there were and are different ways to handle things without throwing gas on the fire or yelling at her... . which she said tonight was the worst thing ever for her (she's always said it... . )

This whole new chapter is more about me and how I react than about making her happy or the crazy singlemindedness I had to make things work out no matter what... .   I will be the best man I can be... . and do the best I can... . but at the same time, I have to be met halfway... . and if it doesn't work... .   I do not have to be possessed and crazed... .  

we're both scared of each other... .   it's clear... .   and that's not really so bad right now... .  

[laelle]

Thats Fantastic Hurt!  You wont find anyone here who will tell you "I told you so"  If you do, they dont belong here.  We are only here to share our own experiences and what we have learned on our journey.  I would suggest you give up the undecided and go straight to staying.  

Staying doesnt mean you feel the relationship will work, only that you want to work at it.  There are people on staying who arent in a romantic relationship with their BPD, but are trying to keep a friendly relationship or as mother/father to their children.

There are tons of tasty bits to learn there.  Wish you the best.  

[Hurt llama]

Thats Fantastic Hurt!  You wont find anyone here who will tell you "I told you so"  If you do, they dont belong here.  We are only here to share our own experiences and what we have learned on our journey.  I would suggest you give up the undecided and go straight to staying. 

Staying doesnt mean you feel the relationship will work, only that you want to work at it.  There are people on staying who arent in a romantic relationship with their BPD, but are trying to keep a friendly relationship or as mother/father to their children.

There are tons of tasty bits to learn there.  Wish you the best. 

Just saw this before going to sleep... . very sweet to share that with me... .

I might start posting in 'staying' but maybe to get some tips... .   i can't make the leap that fast... .   going almost to fast even now... .  

But I always value and even treasure peace and honor and have that with almost everyone in my life. And my exBPD fiancee I will always love... . no question... .

I don't want to wax on about her positives much right now... .   or her negatives.

she has many years of living and surviving from a horrific terrible childhood and lived with unimaginable anxiety. No excuse but at the same time... .   the fact I can see it clearly and not connect it all to me... . is probably the most freeing experience I have had since this whole thing began.

SOmehow this is the healing that I have needed for a very long time.

I'm deciding that I have an amazing life on all levels and that I deserve and want a partner... .   I have a lot to offer and am not settling... .

This was my mantra my whole life and I got thrown into insanity of drama and pain and it was so complicated, exciting, dramatic and painful and addictive that I lost my way.

I do need excitement in my partner... . I don't mind a bit of an edge but that edge can't be lethal... .  

God bless us all and thank you for your words.

[daze]

Hi HL,

I was as careful as i could be and used humor but spoke about I would not have been intimate with her if she was with her bf... . and the fact that she went back to him when she got back was ... . umm... .   problematic... .

It sounds like you have defined a boundary there.  And it sounds like she responded positively.  Do you have any other boundaries that are needed to protect yourself?

I'm deciding that I have an amazing life on all levels and that I deserve and want a partner... .   I have a lot to offer and am not settling... .

This was my mantra my whole life and I got thrown into insanity of drama and pain and it was so complicated, exciting, dramatic and painful and addictive that I lost my way.

I do need excitement in my partner... . I don't mind a bit of an edge but that edge can't be lethal... .  

The excitement aspect is something I hear many of us refer to, in one way or another.  Seems like normal can seem boring to some of us.  The main thing is to keep your eyes open and your mind clear - and know your boundaries.

Laelle is right about the Staying board.  Even if you don't feel it's appropriate to post there, they have the tools which are necessary to use when in a BPD relationship.  The Lessons with the tools are here ---

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=56206.0

Here's a slogan from Al-Anon that might be useful - I didn't cause it, I can't cure it, I can't control it.  Our group adds but I can contribute to it - meaning I can make the relationship aspect worse.

Daze

[Hurt llama]

^ Thanks Daze... .   I had written a long response but it somehow got lost... .   short story is that with more than a bit of reluctance, I did post in 'staying' after waking up from a nightmare this morning of dreaming of my sweet ex telling me with a smile that yes she had dated so and so 5x before we met... .   and the dream was so real ... .   and the feelings in it so familar... .   the insanity of me accepting my so called lover being so easily able to sleep with her bf after a fight, then play mind games with me and sleep wtih him and then say cooly and totally meaning it (and I do think she does), that's its finally over... .   and I always wanted to be with you.

The damage to me night be too deep from her... .   and I don't think I have it in me to have the patience of a saint which is required and yes even worth it in some ways... .   as she is my sweetheart even though I look at her as an abused pet who had a terrible time that was not her fault... .   and her twin sister and she have identical disorders as does her daughter... .   Father abused the other sister... . mother let the father raise the girls for years after just letting them go... .   That woman is a criminal in my mind as is the father who literally is a criminal who got away without even anyone knowing... .   and he's been free to lurk in the world and who knows what this monster might have or is still doing.

My ex was able to hear me tonight (extremely long story i wrote in the 'staying' forum... .   Her response was about as good as she can do... .

Is it enough? I am not even sure it's about that anymore.