Kids damned if I do and damned if I don't?

[Whichwayisup]

As I discovered her infidelity whilst at her folks house, and I have requested she doesn't return to the marital home at this time (it's in my name onlly) she is effectively refusing to let the kids come back and see me.  S15 is adamant that he doesn't want to come back this week, making two weeks! and I'm convinced she is directly under her influence as it was fine for me to take care of them all until I discovered her affair.

My query is that going forward, should she get the claws into D10 and they both want to reside with her, then D3 effectively has no choice, they get moved back in and I get shipped out - what realistically are the options?

What I wanted, residency Mon-Fri in the interim as I can provide for the kids, she can have them at weekend at her folks (and I will arrange around her shifts)  and I have evidence she was looking at new housing to move out anyway... .  

I feel like she is deliberately withholding the kids and not really sure whether it's better to continue as we are, or just give in, invite her and the kids back and keep taking evidence (knowing she is cheating and going to try and wind me up - aswell as the likely allegations that could happen at any time... .   ).  I'm getting conflicting advice on whether it's best to move out or stay in my own home (I don't have a lot of money in order to move out... .  

I'm missing the kids and they have been on holidays for this period, so she seems to be using them simply cos she can... .  

Whichwayisup

[livednlearned]

Do you have an attorney retained? When you say you are getting conflicting advice, are you referring to legal advice from Ls, or from people telling you what to do?

Many members here caution about being physically close to your disordered spouse because of (serious) false allegations, like child molestation or domestic violence. Good to keep that in mind if you're considering letting her back into the house.

It sounds too like there may already be some parental alienation going on? Have you read Divorce Poison by Richard Warshak? That's a must-read for members on these boards because it's almost inevitable that your ex will start using alienation tactics, and that can be harder to deal with than the legal battle. The other recommended book is Splitting: Divorcing a Spouse with BPD or NPD by Bill Eddy.

[Whichwayisup]

Thanks livednlearned,

Yep, got both books thanks, I,knew what may come but didn't realise it would with such force and manipulation, my solicitor has written to her requesting the kids return home and she should receive that today.  My D3 stayed over last nit unexpectedly which is brilliant, but my eldest two I suspect are being poisoned by allegations thwt I am not yet clear on... .   My son has effectively said he want s no contact, this is very concerning as I have evidence of all the things we I have done in the last few weeks in order to support him, yet as soon as I discover her infidelity she decides to turn them against me, she has been told the eldest two are able to make their own choice so she seems to be seeming to persuade them... .   I have been maintaining contact via text message but eldest is unwilling to respond and D10 responds only with a few words... .   I could accept the shock from last week but this is the ninth day and I did see them last fri and sat... .   Will await a reaction to the legal letter about to drop... .  

Advice on forums and net seem to conflict between keeping her away vs. letting her back to compile evidence... .   This is what she now seems to want despite me finding evidence she was looking at moving out with the kids anyway... .   Think I prematurely siled her escape plan, now she is denying she even slept with the other guy... .   The msgs I have a record of say otherwise... .   mi think she is the equivalent to a rabbit in the headlights, and is grabbing for any leverage, hence using the kids... .  

Whichwayisup

[livednlearned]

From what I have read of the prevailing wisdom from men here -- and what many of us (men, women) experience, it is generally best to not live together. You can document a lot of behavior that will be relevant to your case without her being in the home. My T referred to my ex as having primitive responses to fear, like a cornered animal, and to treat him with extreme caution. I don't know how disordered your ex is, but if she is a deer in headlights as you mentioned, she is much more likely to strike at you from a place of intense fear. And among members here, things do seem to go from bad to worse to living hell fairly quickly when that happens.

Do you have any ideas about how to cope with the alienation that your older kids are experiencing? If you post on the L5 board about Healing from a Relationship with a Parent with BPD, you'll get a sense of what it was like for those kids who experienced alienation, and they may be able to give you good insight into what's happening with your kids. I remember one member saying that she sided with the least stable parent because she knew her stable parent was going to be ok. Even in normal divorces, kids get caught in loyalty binds, and it can be extremely confusing, and take years to sort out.

Document everything that is happening. Everything. Everything. Everything. Over time you'll get a sense of what is useful and why you need it. Right now while things are so unsettled and wacky, document everything because that might be what gives you an advantage in a custody battle. It is also so helpful to be able to go back over this stuff when the dust settles. I can barely bring myself to read what I wrote 1 and 2 years ago, but it helps me make sense of something that at the time made absolutely no sense.

[GaGrl]

Your older children may be responding in a condition ed and protective manner. As tine goes ob (be patient) they arexatxan age that they may realize that HER reality doesn't match otbers' reality. Patience.

[Whichwayisup]

Thanks,

Got a call out of the blue yesterday to say that D10 wanted to come and play with friends and may call in for a drink etc.  she ended up saying she wanted to stay over, without any influence by me... .   So D3 and her have stayed over, it's been great.

Am meeting with S15 this afternoon to have a chat and see what's going on... .   StbxBPDw seems to be holding the argument that if she can't come back to the house, they can't and I suspect news been fed a lot of nonsense as I have evidence that I have been asking for them to come back for the last 10 days, but just wasn't sure whether forcing the issue or standing back would be for the best... .   Will see how he is later today and try to arrange times for the kids to have a schedule apart her than everything being ad hoc which is currently messy and putting them in a difficult situation... .  

StbexBPDw did refer to their home as 'dads' yesterday which may signal she is moving on... .   I was quit taken aback and caught myself almost getting up to give her a kiss goodbye out of habit... .   Wow... .

I have a feeling I am being described as all sorts and S15 is being groomed as a partner in arms... .   I don't want to have to unpick this over the next 10yrs, but I don't suppose I have much choice at the moment... .   Try to maintain at least txt contact regularly, but he's not responding to my recent ones... .   I fear his exams are now going to be impacted as well as his outlook... .   One of the reasons she gets annoyed is because I have pointed out his facilitating behaviours when she is in a mood, trying to placate her... .   It's just not fair on him... .  

Whichwayisup

[livednlearned]

Glad you are getting to see your kids!

Can you get your oldest into therapy? It's been profound for my son (now 11). It sounds to me like your son is at high risk for picking a BPD partner as he gets older. Placating your ex when she's in a mood is classic codependent behavior  :'(

My ex filled S11's head with lies too. I found that validating him was the secret weapon because N/BPDx was telling him what to think and feel, whereas I was validating his genuine feelings. Power of Validation was a life saver -- I highly recommend it. You wouldn't think it was so important when alienation starts, but I think it trumps everything else. That's what our kids are starved for, I think. Validation.

Bill Eddy's ":)on't Alienate the Kids" is also a good book. It helped me recognize all the behaviors I had when I responded to N/BPDx and his conflict, and how both my behavior and N/BPDx's behavior impacted S11.

It's like detonating a bomb. We need special skills so that our kids stand a chance to have a healthy emotional life.