Has anybody tried asking other adult friends about your parents?

[hopesprings]

I'm reading the book "Surviving a Borderline Parent" and I'm finding it emotionally difficult to read, but helpful.  One of the suggestions in the book is to ask other friends and extended family members about their perceptions of your borderline parent.  The author says it will help you get perspective because BPDs can function differently with different people.

I have been wanting to ask a close friend and mother surrogate about how she viewed my mother as my parent.  I've been holding off asking for several years because I don't want to put my friend in a difficult position since she is a social friend of my mother.  When we last met a year ago, my friend said I was a "survivor" without much context to that comment.  It would be helpful to me to know if things appeared "off" to my friend, especially now that I'm a parent myself.  I am reluctant to ask anyone much about how my mother appeared to them because I would hate to make anyone uncomfortable.  It is hard for me to reconcile my childhood memories with the reality I face as an adult and parent.  

Has anybody tried asking other adult friends of your parents what they saw going on when you were a child?  Curious how that went ... .

[GeekyGirl]

It's hard to ask those kinds of questions, but if you feel that it will give you some additional perspective, I think it's worth asking them.

I asked my aunt for her take, and she said that she always knew that something wasn't *right* about my mother, but couldn't really figure out what it was that made her different. Once I told her about BPD, a lot of things made sense to her. She's my mother's sister and has experienced some of the behavior that I've seen in my mother. It was validating to hear from someone else  who knew what I'd expereienced, and from there both of us have learned a lot.

I know what you mean about not wanting to make people feel uncomfortable, so you could always ask in as non-threatening ways as possible--have some light conversation first and ask in ways that don't make it seem like you're asking the person to choose sides. Questions like, ":)o you remember when I was XX? What was I like? What did I like to do with my mother?" are easier on the recipient than, ":)id my mother do anything weird when I was young?" and can naturally lead into conversation that gives you the information you're looking for.

That book is tough to read (it's one of the first I read after learning about BPD), but it does bring up some good points and has some good exercises. What do you hope to learn from talking to your close friend?

[hopesprings]

GeekyGirl,

Thanks for your reply.  I'm not even sure I should be reading that book right now.  It is stirring so much up and it's draining.  Maybe small sections at a time?  I think what I'd like from my friend is some adult to adult validation.  For example, in my son's class there is a child who has been acting out.  His mom blames video games.  I know his parents have been in the process of getting a divorce.  I kind of weigh that knowledge in to my consideration of the child's behavior and the mom's explanation. 

My siblings and I were essential props to our parents' social appearance.  It was very important that we got top grades, gave the speeches, wore the right clothes. Turns out their entire marriage was based on a giant lie. By the time I was 12, I was starting to react to the tension between what we were supposed to project publicly and what was actually going on.  I became withdrawn, shy, depressed.  Still performed well, top grades, right clubs.  My parents said I had "emotional problems" to anyone who inquired. As an adult now, I would kind of wonder about a kid that seemed that unhappy, but was still doing well in school, etc.  That would be kind of a red flag for me that maybe something was wrong at home.  Maybe I'm drawing that insight from my own experience, but maybe that is what other people thought too.  That is the kind of question/information that would be helpful to get from another adult who knew me as a child.  It was really hurtful to have my parents tell people I had emotional issues when there was all this chaos going on at home that I wasn't allowed to talk about or felt people didn't want to know about or believe if I did.  Hope that makes sense.

[XL]

I get close to this with glimmers of insight from my cousins about THEIR parents, which I suspect is correct. However, I would fear that asking other adults would be construed as a smear campaign from you.

Fundamentally, you must trust that your insight was correct. You remember your experiences correctly, and should trust that things were indeed wrong. Having less involved adults comment on your history might be invalidating. My aunts don't know the same mother I know. Even siblings who weren't in the house at the same time don't remember some of the worst I experienced.

I was going through a lot of very old writing and realized how correct my memories were. I had dated journal entries about screwed up events, which I'd forgotten I'd written, but were the same as my memories.

[AbbyNormal]

Getting the 411 from others can be really helpful. I have had childhood friends tell me they were afraid to visit my house because they were afraid of my mom. More people could make it through a night at a haunted house than could make it through a sleep over at my house growing up.

My mom had a best friend once. She hung in there for about 10 years. Eventually, she had enough. She moved away and changed her phone number. I ran into her at a grocery store once and she told me she just couldn't take anymore. She said she'd share her contact information with me but not to ever give it to my mother. And, she wanted me to never mention to my mother that I knew where she was. It was like she had joined the witness protection program to get away from my mom! 

One of my mother's husbands tried to get visitations with me after their divorce. They had been married from the time I was 10 until I was 16. Of course, he wasn't given visitation rights in the divorce as he was only a stepdad. When I saw him as an adult, he apologized for leaving. When he left, he had done so right at my 16th birthday. I had come home and all of his stuff was just gone--no notice. That was a couple of days before my birthday. We didn't hear from him for months, he just vanished. When we did hear from him, it was through his divorce attorney. My stepdad went to great lengths to make sure my mom didn't know his new address or phone number. He would not have any contact with her. He would only speak through his attorney.

Of course there are those that she tries to use in a smear campaign. She has a former employee who talks to her from time to time. She loves to throw me under the bus to that person. And that person indulges her. So, I guess it depends on who you ask. That's part of the confusion and turmoil that can happen to make you doubt yourself. I fell for that for a long time.

She told me once that she had gone to a therapist. And, that the therapist had said to tell me (after one visit) that I was a terrible daughter and that, if I didn't treat her better, I would be solely responsible for her heart attack or nervous breakdown, etc. I'm not sure where she had been that day but I'm pretty sure it wasn't with a therapist.

[GeekyGirl]

I'm not even sure I should be reading that book right now.  It is stirring so much up and it's draining.  Maybe small sections at a time? 

I found it very draining to read also. What helped me (and might help you) is if you do read it in small chunks or after you've done some work in therapy or from reading other books, like Stop Walking on Eggshells, which I found to be a little less personal.

My siblings and I were essential props to our parents' social appearance.  It was very important that we got top grades, gave the speeches, wore the right clothes.

Some people with BPD also have narcissistic traits, which it sounds like you saw in your parents. I understand wanting validation--it can feel really good to hear from someone who knows your parents that you are (and were) seeing things as they really were. At the same time,  XL has a good point too--you have to trust that your memory and instinct are right as well.

By asking questions without appearing to judge your mother (to XL's point about perceptions from others about your motive for asking), you might get some insightful answers. You also have to be prepared, to not get the answers you're hoping for.

[Santa Clara]

Hello Hopesprings,

Your description of your school time is just the same as my own experience at school.

I am also thinking about talking to an old friend of my mother's about my BPDmum.  My mother's friend is also my godmother and a wonderful godmother who still takes her resposibilities with me very seriously (even though I am now 38). 

I spoke with my godmother about my difficult relationship with my mother for the first time last summer, and it was eyeopening.  At the time of the converstation I didn't suspect my mother had BPD, as a result of the conversation I began to suspect BPD. My godmother told me some things about my mother that suddenly made me realize my mother has had a very twisted perception of reality since she was a child, I had thought her strange behaviour had begun in her early 20s and was a result of alcholsim (and perhaps a result of what an awful child I was, well I thought that for a long time)

Anyway, I now want to contact my godmother again to let her know why I won't be seeing my mum this year (I am afraid my mother may tell my godmother 'tales' about me and I don't want my godmother to think badly of me).  Anyway, I am quite nervous about this conversation... .

[hopesprings]

Santa Clara,

I have a very dear godmother too.  She is like an angel in my life. She used to come to our house a lot after work and read to us.  Now that I'm an adult, I'm realizing how unusual it was to have such a close friend who would come help out during a very chaotic time of day.  My mother didn't have any family nearby, and I think my godmother was doing her best to support my mother and me. I've never heard my godmother say a cruel word about anyone, but she has made a couple of comments that make me think she does realize some of the things my mother does are difficult. I do worry that my mother will at some point try to sabotage my relationship with my godmother.  Perhaps not, but the temptation might be too great.

I'm glad you have your godmother to support you. I think it makes a tremendous difference.

[Ember]

I've spoken to my mother's sisters and brothers and their spouses, not just about my mother but about what I was like as a child.  They seemed to enjoy sharing their stories about me as a child.  So that might be a good way to start.

A common thread is that I was always different then my siblings.  They recalled that my sisters were sweet and obedient, whereas I was a live wire, full of energy, with my own strong personality.  One aunt recalled, that they oftened wondered how my mother was going to cope with someone as independent as me.  Several confided that I was always their favourite.   

This helped me because growing up my mother often told me that she didn't like me.  She would also yell at me a lot about me not being special and why did I think I was special? 

Comparing my mother's behaviour to my relatives' memories helps things fit together.  Apparently, people did feel I was special and in response my mother reacted with anger and jealousy.  And, the traits that my mother found threatening were what people liked the most about me. 


After we moved out of the house, and my mother turned her attention on them and they started to realize how out of control she was.  A few of them phoned me to express concern with her sudden change of behaviour... .   maybe she was going through menopause or having a nervous break down?  When I responded that this was perfectly normal (for her) and she had always behaved liked this, they felt bad that that didn't do something when I was a child.

Others were also relieved when I brought the topic up because they had wanted to talk about it, but didn't want to speak poorly to me about my mother. 

[coyotafiera]

Hi, Hopesprings.

I read Surviving a Borderline Parent and found it to be awesome. 

In my 20 adult years looking after my mother, I often talked to adults in my mother's life about the ways they perceived her.  I never went out and said, "you know she's completely bat-poop, right."  Instead, I would ask about their memories of specific moments and their overall perceptions would come out.  I found this to be really helpful and validating. 

In the end, I'd suggest taking an inventory of the best/worst possible outcomes of going down this path with the people you plan to ask.  If you're not prepared for the worst possible outcome, then maybe the time isn't right.  Once you're a go, it'd be a good idea for you to prepare yourself well and have a self-care plan in place in the event of the worst possible outcome. 

[Beachbumforlife]

I asked one friend from childhood.  She didn't perceive anything wrong.  But what was telling was her memory of something I said to her about my mom when I was young.  That let me know that something inside of me knew she wasn't like other mommies even when I was a child.  That was kind of validating.