Rough sex/domination in borderline male?

[eternity75]

I am curious... . does anyone else have the experience of being with a BPD that likes rough sex? My bf made a point of telling me before we met in person (we are in a LDR relationship in which we met online) that he doesn't just want or "have sex" he "makes love". But the experience for the most part has felt anything but loving. From the beginning it's been like he wants to control and dominate me with sex. Even like he wants to cause me pain during sex. He frequently seduces other women into sexual chat and during one of his sexual chats with a woman on facebook she asked him something about what he enjoys and he said something like it turns him on the louder a woman is... . if he can make her yell or scream he likes that. And I thought "hmm maybe that explains the roughness and coldness of the sex we have". He also doesn't seem to enjoy sex... . even though it's a method he uses to gain attention from women, when he actually gets it, it seems very robotic. Anyone else notice this with BPD or is it an individual thing?

[emotionaholic]

My gf would often say she likes it rough, wants to be slammed against the wall, and wanted me to bite her, hard, even told me once she wanted to be raped.  I never understood it, and I never followed through.  I would bite her neck when she asked but never as hard as she wanted.  To me sex is a way of showing and sharing love, attraction, vulnerability, admiration, caring and compassion.  Sex is the opposite of pain it is supposed to be about pleasure and connection.  I know it really turned her on when I would physically force her to the bed and have my way with her, but I was always gentle in my doing so.  I think that they are so used to pain and that pain is how they relate life to that if they are not feeling or asserting pain then something must be wrong.  God forbid that someone actually loves you completely.

[LosingIt2]

I read that one way to judge whether you dealing with a BPD male is if he is submissive during sex, particularly earlier in the relationship. It sounds like you're dealing with NPD most likely.

[musicfan42]

Yep I agree-NPD.

But you mention that he's talking to other girls online-why are you putting up with that?

[doubleAries]

hmmmm... .

I don't think this is a BPD or NPD thing. I think it's a power/control issue.

My bipolar xh told me his favorite fantasy was of tying me up to a tree, naked. That's it. If there were varying things he fantasized about doing to me after tying me up, he didn't say. Because having utter control over me was the real fantasy. I don't think this was his fantasy because he's bipolar--I think the bipolar is what would make him say it as if "well of course--who wouldn't fantasize about this?"

Domination issues are usually associated more with ASPD (Anti-Social PD) when they are associated at all. It's really a separate issue.

I never let xh tie me to a tree or anything else. Our sex life was dismal--robotic, emotionally distant, and over in less than a minute. I believe as a substitute for tying me to a tree. Emotional with-holding is certainly a form of power/control. Early on in the relationship, he wanted to be rough and rude (vile name calling during sex, etc) and when I protested this, the power/control became more covert--less blatant, but still obvious. He was in charge of how the "sex" progressed, and intimacy was simply not allowed.

He believed (as many mentally disordered people are prone to) that I was always trying to dominate him (some of these accusations were patently ridiculous--for example, that I was purposefully making the room too warm in order to dominate him), so the struggle for control--to him--was about "getting his licks in where he could". Sex is a common arena for the power/control issue, because vulnerability is more obvious here.

Professionals now understand clearly that the crime of rape is not about "sex"--it's about power and control. And generally power and control through degradation. I'm not saying you should call the police and report being raped, but you should learn to recognize when you are being degraded.

In others (more common in women than men but not exclusive) BEING degraded becomes an important part of the dysfunction. Then a complex pattern ensues, often of being bitter about the degradation they have all but demanded and therefore being justified in getting "revenge" for it. This is frequently a reenactment of something degrading that happened to them in the past, that they are reenacting over and over to try to "overcome this time", unlike the original time when they were powerless and helpless. Often being molested as a child.

Many people deal with these issues, but like everything else, it becomes more exaggerated for the mentally unstable person. So it's not directly a BPD/NPD thing so much as fairly predictable ways a BPD or NPD (or anyone else) would "cope" with it.

[eternity75]

Thank you all for your replies. My full story is here:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=205412.0

I am new to this forum. But my bf definitely displays more BPD than NPD characteristics.

When I say rough sex, it's  nothing extreme. Just not even close to the "love-making" that he talked so much about. It's just cold, hard, unfeeling, and very robotic. He is submissive in that he never initiates, unless he's feeling me pull away and then it's a way for him to reel me back in. He fits the BPD diagnosis perfectly, however he has never raged on me yet. But has told me about his extreme temper "in the past". I have never seen it. In a way we are in a quickly fading honeymoon period. Maybe it lasts longer in LDR's because it's easier for them to keep things under wraps.

Musicfan you asked why I'm putting up with him chatting with other girls online. To be honest I don't know. It's not just online, it's texting as well. I'm the only girl he calls... . I definitely feel like I am categorized differently in his mind... . I am "special" and all his sexual conquests are just fillers and boosters of his self-esteem, ways to show he is desirable to women. When I found out he cheated in the first month, he begged, cried, clung to me sobbing like a baby and pleading with me not to leave him. This lasted for hours. He thanked me repeatedly for his second chance. Then got sneakier with his "other women" and better at hiding things from me. I have found out every time about every woman. I have been convinced I am the only woman he wants and he truly loves me. Logically I know this is not true in the least. Logically I know what true love should look like. But my childhood experiences with my raging abusive BPD father have really screwed with my head. I am trying to detach and pull away from this relationship right now. I'm hanging on by a thread. It's amazing the hope he triggers in me again when I finally start to feel less and less intense feelings. He is a master at re-igniting my hope. Even last night... . suddenly when he calls me he talks to me for an hour... . excitedly rambling on and on about many things... . and I thought about how much I have missed that because it's the way it was in the beginning. The last 6 months his calls are many times a day but last a few minutes only because he has nothing to say... . then out of the blue I get an hour of his time and this spark of hope lights up inside of me  Logically I know it is all hopeless.

He will go to Mexico in October... . and has multiple women there he has been seducing online over months now. I know it's the biggest reason he does not want me to go with him... . he plans to cheat... . I know this... . he knows this... . though he denies it. I plan to end it before then. I don't know how to end it successfully and resist his crying, begging and pleading... . and if that doesn't work he turns to guilt and that works wonders on me.

[charred]

Power/control are what pwBPD often want. My exBPDgf had a politician she was crazy about... . but wouldn't say who. Eventually I asked one of her friends and it was Dick Cheney... . why, because she thought he was so powerful that he made people do what he wanted, and that is what she wanted, the power to compel people to do whatever was her whim. Only thing short of being magical she lusted for, power.

It was  all   to me.

[LosingIt2]

I'm sorry but everything you described really does sound more like NPD. And yes, there is a difference.

[atcrossroads]

In answer to your question, no, my soon to be exBPD/NPD husband was actually a very good lover.  Our sex life was, in fact, pretty amazing.  There were many, many other issues that led to our split (negativity, raging, frequent threats of suicide, blame, and eventual splitting of me/painting me black).

Also, I wonder too why you are still with him.  Your bf is blatantly disrespecting you, is not a good lover, and I'm sure there's more (I didn't even read your story yet).  If all this is going on fairly early in the r/s, I would say those are major red flags.     

Maybe it would be good to question what you are getting out of the relationship.  I don't know you personally, but I do know you don't deserve to be treated like that (and in my experience, it will get worse... . much worse).

Best of luck to you.  BPD/NPD are both a hard road to deal with.   

[doubleAries]

My therapist told me he went to a seminar about personality disorders and it was explained to him that basically BPD is all the other personality disorders rolled into one (making it unique in itself). Millon and others say that the BPD will usually have an emphasis on one or another of the PD's, and can even switch between them.

A really, really good book that makes this more clear in "layman" terms is "Understanding the Borderline Mother" by Christine Lawson. Even if your mother wasn't BPD, this book still really makes BPD understandable. She lines out 4 basic "types" of BPD's, which she calls the waif, the hermit, the queen, and the witch. The waif has an emphasis on Dependent PD, the hermit has an emphasis on paranoid PD, the queen has an emphasis on Narcissist PD, and the witch--well the witch is a whole different ball game. Very few BPD's are primarily witches. Usually a BPD becomes a witch here and there (enter the frightening rages!), putting emphasis on ASPD/sadism. But one who is a primarily a witch (some of these are the BPD's who actually kill their children--or spouse) may actually be diagnosed ASPD--a more common diagnosis for males than females.

But the power and control issue is still a separate issue from any PD.

[mil2bpd]

Sorry you've found your way here, Eternity75. Your story (from what I've read on this thread) sounds strikingly familiar to one of a person I knew who had been involved with several women, a doctor who used his professional footholds, charm and good looks to gain trust among women across the nation and had many captivated at once. I knew a few who told me similar stories of how upon ultimately seducing them his charm would turn to dominance and degradation. I finally realized he was a consummate liar and manipulator and had actually enlisted me as an "admirer" of sorts even though I thought I was merely a colleague until I caught onto his NPD traits, intermingled with BPD. I realized by being associated with him I was in a way enabling such behavior.

It takes a great deal of courage, fortitude and self-respect to no longer tolerate such patterns if that's what you learned as a child was the "norm". It all must seem so perfectly familiar to you now in a perverse way -- I wonder if it may be providing you with some kind of comfort - a re-connect with your dad somehow? It's hard to break old habits and it must be very hard to break the ties with your current bf. But reading about this disorder and the ultimate impact it can have on you may give you the insight, strength and direction you need to find your way through and out of this situation.  It may only get worse before it gets better and that may take a tremendous toll on your psyche and body. Only you can decide if it's worth that sacrifice.

[Emelie Emelie]

Yep.  Definitely experienced that.

[Sin_M]

Yes. Mine is more interested in that kind of sex than any other kind. If it is related to BPD, I would think it's probably because they feel so helpless and weak most of the time inside. It's a good way to express strength without hurting anybody. If of course, you are OK with it. If you are not and he knows you are not, that has a different connotation for both of you. I never minded it at all, so... .