Does their BPD cause us to be unable to asses "the person" we are dating?

[connect]

Am posting here rather than "staying" as its a good place for questions.

Let me explain what I mean.

When you are a non and you date another non you can get to know them as a person and gauge how you fit together, likes/dislikes, world views, things in common. You are generally after the same goal to get to know each other in as good an environment as possible to facilitate this.

Sometimes I feel that with the rollercoaster we nons can get so caught up in levelling things out that we don't get this same opportunity. For example I find that levelling my b/f out seems to be the major factor in this r/s atm (he is pretty bad since talking himself odd his meds in march. Its almost like I don't get a chance to actually asses our compatability. Lately its been all about him settling down.

I know their BPD is part of them. A steady period would allow me to look at how we are together in OTHER ways though.

Do you know what I mean here? Hard to explain. Its like my r/s is with his BPD rather then with him.

A CBT therapist (who treats BPD's and nons) said that to me recently. Do you want to have a r/s with HIM or his BPD? He was trying to tell me that I should do less eggshell walking and not make our r/s all about his illness.

[123Phoebe]

Do you know what I mean here? Hard to explain. Its like my r/s is with his BPD rather then with him.

Yes, I think I know what you mean.  Your relationship is with his BPD rather than with him, for the most part.  Like the "BPD" is fueling something inside of you into action?

That's what it did to me, Connect, or I did it, or whatever... .

There is way more to our relationships than their BPD.  We're 50% of the relationship and we have our own baggage.

[Validation78]

Hi Connect!

I think I know what you mean by your question. A relationship with a pwBPD is always going to be complicated,  and likely not one that has all the elements of a healthy relationship. For example, the lack of empathy skills in a pwBPD will require that you seek empathy, a normal need in human relations, from someone else. Granted, they have positive attributes as well. However, I'm not sure that the elements that are lacking can be made up for by the positive attributes. That is a question that only each individual can answer.

So, during the dating process, when we are getting to know each other, isn't it reasonable to assess whether or not our needs can be met by one another? If we know we are becoming involved with a person who because of their illness will not be able to fulfill a basic relationship need, what would keep us on the path to a deeper relationship with that person?

Best Wishes,

Val78

[connect]

Yes, I think I know what you mean.  Your relationship is with his BPD rather than with him, for the most part.  Like the "BPD" is fueling something inside of you into action?

Spot on as ever Phoebe! I think thats exactly what is is. There was a shift in me when the behaviours started which changed the dynamic into it being less about him and being more about the BPD from my side. That chasing the elusive element seemed to compel me, whereas with other people would have run a mile. I think it was you who kindly recommended the book "stop caretaking the BPD" Thanks for that - I have bought it and am reading it now.

And Val I think you are right that the presence of BPD is a factor in assessing - we do have to consider how we ourselves can change or use outside support to aid us in staying.  I would like to change my focus into a different direction where I can see him more rather than his illness.

[123Phoebe]

I think it was you who kindly recommended the book "stop caretaking the BPD" Thanks for that - I have bought it and am reading it now.

I believe it was MaybeSo who recommended that book; glad you're reading it though

I forget if you've mentioned having PD parents?  We learn so much of our relating from what we experienced growing up

BPD is super compelling, like whoa wth is this?  It's the ultimate challenge and if we have codependent traits even just a little bit (in my case, a lot a bit!), we are ripe for the BPD pickins'... .   I had to have some of that action

What's even more challenging though and so much more interesting AND worthwhile, is focusing on our own stuff.  I caught myself today thinking wild thoughts while me and my guy were out enjoying a splendid afternoon.  It's just this tape that sometimes plays in my head as it searches for negative things to latch onto.  Weird.  I gotta own it, it is all mine and has nothing to do with him.  That tape has been playing since way before meeting him.

Try to focus on yourself a little more, Connect.  Just for fun even.  Catch yourself and STOP yourself from acting on one of your thoughts or feelings where you think he's concerned.  Do something else, like tie your shoe.  Break that pattern, stop it in its tracks.  When you feel like reaching out to him, do something marvelous for yourself instead.

This stuff works!

[Newton]

Hi 123Phoebe... . I get where your post is coming from.  My take on it is this... . one of the hallmarks of BPD is a lack of a stable sense of "self"... . hence their mirroring behaviour.

Surely if they have a fluid/transitory sense of who they are, it is rather futile for us to try to connect with them on stable emotional level. If they are constantly struggling to understand who they are... . how can we expect to? 

[findingmyselfagain]

Connect,

My r/s came to an end, but I believe unless we have some healthy boundaries and r/s skills, then the "mirroring" and the highs and lows can make very difficult to know them as a person. If I was wise enough to move slower I'm not sure if I would've kept dating mine. But I was young and naive in relationships, and who doesn't want to "fall in love"? I'm not sure what I would say to mine if I ever saw her again. Normally I'd like to keep some sort of connection, but it doesn't seem possible. We seemed to have similar goals, etc., in the beginning but when things were collapsing every day was different. I think one of the articles here hints that the dysfunction was there from the beginning. The honeymoon pulls both of us along. She really is the black/white push/pull depressed anxious feelings rule and change every minute kind of person.

[123Phoebe]

Hi Newton

Surely if they have a fluid/transitory sense of who they are, it is rather futile for us to try to connect with them on stable emotional level. If they are constantly struggling to understand who they are... . how can we expect to?  

Hmm, not quite sure I understand what you mean?  In a general sense?

I'm still learning about myself; could be lifelong as I keep evolving and not to meet anyone else's needs or standards, but my own  I wouldn't say it's a constant struggle.  Just sometimes, when things are going along great, negative thoughts might start filtering in.  It's much more of an FOO issue than anything and I am fully aware of it.

I suspect my pwBPD deals with a similar issue.  We've talked at length about 'patterns' and 'tapes playing', 'free will' or lack of thereof... . and 'scripts' that were written long ago... .  We don't talk about BPD or any other PD per se', more like the human condition, human nature sort of thing.  And when we've had these discussions, they've been over a glass of wine and simply pondering life... .  He's very open-minded.  It's not about what he did or I did or whatever else might be going on between us.  :)uring those times, it's all about boundaries and values and understanding what emotions might be overflowing behind the mask.  Not to change them or make them go away, just a basic understanding and take it from there... .

We've been together for many years.  It's not all about mirroring.  Sure, in the beginning it was!  I was mirroring him, too, though... . big time.  We were being these warped versions of who we thought the other needed us to be.  K  O  O  K  Y!

We keep getting to know each other a little bit more... .  And I am getting to know myself better all the time.  Can't speak for him, that would be narcissistic