Thank You... Now It's Up To Me

[ConflictedxAMillion]

Thank you to all that responded to my post the other day (Our Story).

All the responses seemed to offer one solution... . BOUNDARIES... .

I know from my readings and from my classes that boundaries are what is needed... . and for us to have a better relationship - validation.

Some days it's just the hardest thing.  I find myself stating what the boundaries are going to be and then me not following through.

So after our big blow out the other day.  I finally took her phone call yesterday.  I told her that I will not tolerate her stealing from family members.  I asked her if she understood and she replied yes.  I told her that she needs to get back into counseling (this is after she said we both need to go to family counseling) AND she's got to stick with it.  I asked her if she understood and she said yes.  I told her when she gets that underway she can call me.  I also told her that I would not be paying her rent next month whether she's working or not.  If she's not working her boyfriend (who had nothing to contribute towards rent) will have to pick up the slack because God knows we have done enough for him the past year... . I told her there will be no excuses - if they can't pay they will either have to move out and wait for the eviction process - if they choose to go through the eviction process then they will be rejected on their low-income housing application.

Now the problem is me following through and not caving.  I feel terrible saying I don't want her to come back home.  Life is just to hard with her in the house.  She steals money and clothes from her little sister.  She steals from us.  There's contant tension and we all feel we have to be on guard when she's around. She hangs around with some very shady characters.  My husband is afraid his business will get ripped off.  Then I feel terrible about feeling like this.  I feel sorry for her.  I feel like she is incapable of taking care of herself. 

Their apartment is distgusting.  Rotten food in the sink, dirty dishes everywhere, garbage strewn about, cat litter box overflowings.  I feel like I need to keep a roof over her head to keep her from having to live with us.  I guess this is the guilt thing.

HOW DO YOU ALL FOLLOW THROUGH WITH YOUR BOUNDARIES?  I don't want her living off the street as I feel she will only become more involved and addicted to drugs.  Just this past week she told my neice that she likes doing drugs.  And honestly, if she's going to stay involved with drugs I really don't want her around at all.  I have a 14 year old entering high school who is going to have a hard enough time just with all that.  I don't want a drug addict around her.  If it were a stranger I would definitely be able to say no way.  But it's her sister!

Ugh!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Thursday]

Hi conflicted,

For me, setting boundaries was not so difficult. I am a step-Mom and came into BPDSD's life when she was 14, now she will be 22 in a couple of weeks.

It has been very difficult for her Dad. One thing that has helped me to help him is to remind him that SD's self-esteem is fragile. Without boundaries she makes poor choices that will later cause her to feel bad about herself. To give and example- We would never want her to drive drunk, cause an accident that killed or disabled someone else because that would be a very high price to pay, emotionally, for her impulsive behavior.

SD is sober now but in the heyday of her addiction, we took away her car and made her ride the bus until she could give us 30 days clean (we drug tested her)  after a night spent in the hospital for over drinking and using benzos (Xanax in very large quantities) - caught her because one of her friends called us to come and get her at a party when SD tried to leave in her car. She was soo intoxicated, no doubt she would have wrecked her car had she driven off.

Taking away a car for safety when there is an addiction problem is an easy to see boundary. The next one might be a little bit harder to figure but has the same basis of morality and values. SD just got a job after being unemployed and unmotivated to find a job for ten months. She is living currently with her maternal grandmother. SD has been very irresponsible about her obligations, since her unemployement began (she was fired from her previous job for not showing up and not calling in when she overslept).

She owes us quite a bit of money for three car repairs. We decided to do the repairs for her because we felt she would be more successful with the job hunting if she had a car to use. Once she started working again, she was to pay us back. Now that she is working we have asked that she pay a specific amount that covers (in a reasonable amount) her cell phone bill, her car insurance (two bills we have been paying and now that she is turning 22 and she is employed, it's time for her to take care of these two bills) and an amount that will absolve her debt to us (for the car repairs) within two years time. OUr boundary is that should she fail to repay us each month we will not help her with car repairs in the future.

WE want her to learn to be self-sufficient, to feel the accomplishment of doing for herself. To not set her up to succeed with this is to allow her to feel low about herself. For SD low mood equals low function. She needs to begin to save money, to plan for the future. She can accomplish this! That is the bonus for us setting a boundary about not extending financial support for someone who can help themselves. WE are not spring chickens and my husband would like to retire in about five years.

You speak in your post about how your DD's behaviors are affecting her relationships with her family. By setting boundaries you keep her from hurting things worse.

When you talked to her about your boundary about not stealing did you discuss consequences? Is it that she will not be allowed to come around if she steals?

Or was the discussion of stealing because you are setting the boundary about her not being allowed to live at home and giving your reasons?

I wouldn't worry too much about how gross her apartment is. She alone will suffer the natural consequences of living like this.

We quit letting SD live with us a few years ago.  Since then she has had a place to sleep every single night. AT first she was in a sober house, which we paid for. She lingered there far too long, unemployed then as well so we gave her a reasonable deadline for us to quit footing the bill and she found  someone to live with, sure enough.

Just remind yourself, without  boundaries, you will never get where you want to be, your DD will continue to hold you captive with her issues and you will get no closer to a great relationship with her than you are now. Hope this is of help!

thursday

[pessim-optimist]

Hi again, Conflicted,

Following through on boundaries gets easier with time. It is a process. Boundaries are the outside manifestation of our values and limits of what we want and don't want in our life. Once you define your values and limits, you can start thinking about how to protect those areas of your life.

An important thing to remember is: boundaries are about you, not about others - they say what YOU are going to allow in your life and what you are not going to allow. (i.e. someone living with an alcoholic CANNOT set a boundary 'I don't want you drinking'. However they CAN set a boundary 'I will not be around you if/when you are drinking'.

I thought about the issue of your dd going to her grandparents for money telling them that you will pay them back... .

That is really sad, as grandparents are often so good-willed and soft-hearted towards grandkids.

If I was in that situation, I would tell my parents and in-laws that my dd lied to get their money, and that I am sorry this happened. I would also tell them, that I would like them to be safe from this happening in the future, so please do not trust her if she asks for money. And I would tell them what she is likely to use it for if she asks for more in the future. I would also tell them that 'if something similar happens in the future and it involves me (please either check with me first before you give her anything, or consider the money gone - I will not be paying back money my dd swindles from you)'.

Just an idea, you might be able to come up with something better, as you know your family well... .

[js friend]

Hi Conflicted.

Boundries may become easier for you to enforce when you begin to look at them in a positive way. They are there to protect us from behaviour we will no tolerate... Just as we tell our kids what is desirable behaviour we also have to remind them what is undesirable. It is healthy to have boundries. I have boundries with my other children too... . even my dd has them... quite a few actually

I think that boundries also an guide and empower our pwBPD to take be responsible for their own behaviour and to take control of their own lives overtime.

My dd18 left home shortly after her 17th birthday.She woke up one day and just didnt come back home.She said there were too many rules and she hated living here... . especially living with me. So she wanted to stay out all night, not go to school, be disrespectful and not have to answer to anyone. Fine... . , I had to let her go   and I have to tell you it was hard to watch a 17yo move from place to place because she had no permanent place to stay and burn her bridges with many people who took her in along the way.But little by little she became less angry and she came to challenge my boundries less and less  because she knew what they were and knew that I was unmovable when it came to them.They were/ are my values and i have a right to uphold them. They werent ever changing and dd doesnt fight against them now.  I also think that they gave her some sense of stability in a funny way.

Now 18months later dd has a baby and a place of her own and I couldnt tell the last time I have had to remind her of them. Those same boundries I had back then are now fixed and in place and dd and I have a much better r/s. I havent lost my r/s with my dd because I have boundries. If anything I would say with boundries and validation it has improved at least 75% than 18months ago

[vivekananda]

Hi Conflicted,

When we first put boundaries properly in place, it caused a reaction. Our problems were dh not accepting the boundaries and thinking he could do better. he would agree and then give in. The other thing that occurred was that dd thought that we were not being fair, and her response was to stop all contact. Of course the only time she had made contact before was to ask for money anyway... .

I understand that establishing boundaries can cause a strong reaction at first.

Another thing that I learnt that while a boundary is in concrete, there is also room for negotiation. Eg our boundary was to not give money unless we saw receipts or invoices and we agreed to pay for her T. Well she, with her T's approval, refuses to give us receipts or invoices. So we though, ok we could pay T direct with our credit card. Dd says her T said that was too controlling of us. Now she has to advise us ahead of time and we will pay for her visits. We trust her in this, and she can be trusted in this because it is a point of honour for her not to lie about money. But what was happening was that she would make a demand for a large amount of money to cover bills that had built up and it was burdensome for us. So, our boundary was based on our need to be able to properly budget and accommodate her requests.

Now, I have heard that this book is excellent, so if you haven't invested in it yet, it might be helpful for you and your dh:

"Boundaries - when to say yes, how to say no to take control of your life" by H. Cloud and J. Townsend 

keep in touch Conflicted, let us know how it goes.

Vivek    

[griz]

Hi Conflicted:  Boundaries... . now that was one of the hardest things for me. Setting a boundary and not giving in.  But I was able to do this by starting really slow and small and building.  For many of us I feel like we are held hostage and sometimes not having boundaries can be easier than the fight but each time I set a small boundary and saw an accomplishment it helped me be stronger.  Going through this process made me also realize that I had to learn boundaries with not only my DD18 but also with everyone around me.  I suddenly realized that I had no boundaries, it was almost as if my life was to please other and keep everyone happy and in the end I was the most unhappy of all.  I remember in the beginning when I started setting boundaries with DD it angered her so much and for a short time it almost seemed worse but by sticking to it she finally got the message and her behavior changed in response to mine.

This may sound silly but my first boundary was I would no longer clean up her room or do her laundry with the family laundry.  If she wanted her laundry done she needed to keep her room relatively clean (teenager clean) and place her dirty clothes in the laundry basket.  As viv said there was a concrete boundary but also some room for negotiating.  If she was having a difficult time and came to me and asked for help I would make time to help her get her room cleaned up but then she had to help with the laundry.  In the beginning she ignored this boundary but she soon found herself with no clean underwear or clothes and when she complained about it I simply told her she had two choices she could tidy up her room and her laundry would get done or she could just do her laundry herself.  The next day she asked me if I could help her get her room in order and it actually took both of us the whole day to do it.  Then she helped me with the laundry, including hers.  It was a small boundary but she got the message loud and clear and although her room is not spotless (but what teenager's is) her laundry is in the basket and her room stay relatively clean.  We have continued to build on this and it really does get easier.

Griz