Adult child with BPD traits

[Adelheid]

 Hi,

I am the mother of an adult daughter showing traits of BPD. According to the literature I have been reading she is mostly high functioning. I feel very isolated and am afraid to talk to any of my friends, family or counselor about her condition for many good reasons. I suffered immensely when she relocated and moved in with me, since I was not prepared and lacked the necessary boundaries (I still do.) She has since moved out, however lives close by. She has distanced herself from her family with the exception of me. She determines how and when to communicate with me, mostly via text-messaging. These often circular conversations are exhausting. There are professional and financial problems as well. I have tried to convince her to go for help but with no avail. Knowing that she is suffering makes me very sad. Thank you for listening to me. I would like any comments/advice you might have to improve our situation.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[pessim-optimist]

Hello Adelheid,



You have found the right place on your way out of isolation. There are many parents here in different situations with their children, yet we all understand the pain, the confusion, stress and endless efforts to help our children in their lives.

BPD is really confusing and painful not just for the person suffering from it, but also the whole family. I completely understand your reluctance in talking about this with friends and if you have good reason to not talk about this with your counselor, then that's ok too. Maybe you could find another one in the future who understands BPD to help you navigate the situations with your daughter?

I am so sorry to hear that your daughter doesn't seem to understand her need for help, that is unfortunately fairly common with persons w/BPD (pwBPD) that function at a higher level, and it just adds to our stress.

There is hope though, there are things that you can learn in order to be able to manage your relationship with your daughter whether she gets help or not. One of those tools/skills are better boundaries (something you yourself mention), there are also ways to communicate in ways that make the pwBPD feel heard and understood, chiefly validation. There are lots of more resources for improving the relationship (r/s) and also your quality of life - something that is really important.

What is your biggest concern at the moment? Is it more being overwhelmed by the messaging and your daughter's troubles or is it more being at conflict with her, or both?

We are here to support you and listen and share what has helped us. Please keep posting, and let us know how we can help, ok?

[Adelheid]

Thank you for your reply and support. My daughter worked very hard and endured a lot of hardship to complete her education at now age 33, a total of 13 years of rigorous training. This is a highly stressful profession and these stressors appear to bring on BPD traits. Although she loves her profession and has made many sacrifices to come to this point, she is beginning to doubt herself. She sees herself as flawed both as a person and physically. She has a serious autoimmune illness which is kept in remission. Receiving a diagnosis for BPT could be a problem professionally, which might be the reason for her not going for help. She is well informed about mental illnesses. I am very concerned for her and saddened. She is angry, anxious, depressed and blames me for her failures. She can be verbally abusive. I already mentioned financial problems. Recently, she has put me under pressure to pay off a significant credit card debt. Although I would have to borrow the money, I agreed to pay off half of the debt and help her pay her rent. There is a sense of entitlement operating, which I find disturbing. She was happy with the arrangement and we had a nice evening. Today she texted me, blaming me, urging me to call her father and her godfather to ask for money to cover the entire debt. She said she couldn't go on without help anymore, which scared me. I assured her of my help. Then she stopped all communication. She said she would block all my calls. This was at noon and when she did not respond till the evening, I called one of her very good girlfriends (she has several best friends who are her family, solid and accomplished people). Her friend agreed to call her and my daughter then called me. She was angry and told me to grow up amongst other insults. At this point I was crying. She now wanted the entire amount of money. It just would make sense and she would pay me back when she would be able. I was so exhausted and frightened that I agreed. Yet worse, it begins to make sense to me that this is the right thing to do, although this would present a financial hardship to me. I am describing this to you in such length because I would like your insight as an objective listener. I am wondering if this is typical BPD behavior and how can I better handle these kind of situations/days. My goal is to improve my relationship with my daughter and my own life. I am a retired educator and administrator thus worked with many people in my life. I now volunteer in my community. Thank you again for taking the time to listen. I would appreciate any feedback/insight.

[pessim-optimist]

I am happy for your daughter's professional accomplishments. It seems from what you are saying that she is stressed out and not altogether independent at the age of 33, though. That must be a heavy burden for you as her mom... .

Looking at the situation from the outside, this is what I see:

I sense that you are uncomfortable with the latest situation of lending your daughter money that you yourself don't have (and rightfully so). And that the reason for you agreeing to this were two occasions of your daughter pressuring you, being angry, insulting you etc. Your worry for her safety and desire to make the conflict/problem go away and preserve the relationship with her were important factors in your agreeing.

Yet worse, it begins to make sense to me that this is the right thing to do, although this would present a financial hardship to me.

What are the reasons behind your thinking that it is the right thing to do, Adelheid? Is it you coming to the conclusion that it is important to you to help your daughter and you have hope that this will significantly help her in getting independent in the long run? Or is it her behaviors and fears that hold you under pressure?

[meantcorn34]

Hi Adelheid,

Everytime my son has convinced me that I am responsible for solving his problem, it has come back to bite me. His sense of entitlement grows by leaps and bounds. He couldn't care less about the precarious financial situation I placed myself in, and the verbal abuse grows worse. I have learned to be empathetic, stand back and let him be an adult and solve his own problems. And you know what? He is capable of doing that. Take care of yourself first. You can't help anyone anyway if you aren't healthy. Don't accept abuse from anyone. Put your boundaries firmly in place (easier said than done). You and your financial situation are just as important as your daughter. Please let us know how you're doing. I wish you peace.

[Adelheid]

Thank you so much for your support. I need it badly. My daughter has lost her job since I posted last. People with her education are in high demand and their salaries are high. However, she doesn't have enough savings to financially take care of her own for any length of time. I already posted reg. her demands that I pay off her credit card bills with borrowed money. My suggestions to cut expenses fall on deaf ears. Her apartment rent is high but according to her she can't find anything cheaper and is bound by a lease. There are other high expenses for health care, car, etc... She is looking for a new position, also in less desirable locations or is wanting to change careers. My concern is that she appears to have a hard time with criticism on the job, learning from it and be proactive. I worry that she will encounter similar problems  with future employment. I have thought about your questions and why I would pay off my daughter's loans. I also have been reading about FOG on this sight. I think that FOG plays a big role in my decision. On the other hand she does need some help temporarily. I had worked out a realistic plan with her how to help her cover her expenses till she  is back to work. As already mentioned, she then scared me into paying her entire debt. I don't think that she will learn in the long run if I bail her out to this degree. She has a history of not repaying her debts. Our relationship has improved since I promised help and I am worried how she will react when I will backtrack on my promise and revisit the original plan. I am learning from your responses that I must take care of myself as well and that my daughter also has resources. (It isn't a good sign that I am having a hard time sleeping and am constantly worrying.) My daughter is currently visiting a friend out of state. Don't know how she can afford this. Like other mothers posting, my daughter does not acknowledge me as her mother, I think. I am somewhat emotionally numb at this point, however know that I must protect myself before I can help her. Putting this into practice will be hard on me. Yet I have no choice! Thank you for listening to me processing my thoughts and feelings. It is of great help. Please let me know your thoughts/questions in response to my thinking. Thank you!

[lbjnltx]

Hello Adelheid,

I've read through this thread and can understand why you would be concerned and overwhelmed.

Do you think you could approach your daughter with alternative solutions for her financial problems?  Maybe tell her you have looked at your financial situation and the loss of her income and decided to look further for help.  Maybe a debt restructuring plan or talking to the credit card company about lowering her payments until she gets another job... .?  Or whatever other resources you can find.

Validate her feelings of frustration, fear, anger... .apologize for having to change course and ask if she would like for you to look further into the options or if she wants to do it herself.  Stand firm that you are not able financially to honor her request and that you have faith that you believe she can take care of this.

Be prepared to bear the brunt of her anger... .it is ok.  It doesn't meant you are making a mistake... .it means you are giving the responsibility back to her and she isn't used to that. 

lbj

[pessim-optimist]

Hello again, Adelheid,

It looks like a difficult situation just got more complicated and is bringing more stress... .

On the other hand, there might be a little bit of light at the end of a tunnel.

I can see that you are working hard through this and are being honest with yourself.

People with her education are in high demand and their salaries are high. However, she doesn't have enough savings to financially take care of her own for any length of time.

... .I already posted reg. her demands that I pay off her credit card bills with borrowed money.

My suggestions to cut expenses fall on deaf ears.

... .My daughter is currently visiting a friend out of state. Don't know how she can afford this.

I see all of the above as red flags. It looks like your daughter is living beyond her means and expects you to cover the difference indefinitely. On the other hand, the fact that you cannot afford it either, might make it easier for you to say no. (Not that you need to justify yourself)

I have thought about your questions and why I would pay off my daughter's loans. I also have been reading about FOG on this sight. I think that FOG plays a big role in my decision. On the other hand she does need some help temporarily. I had worked out a realistic plan with her how to help her cover her expenses till she is back to work.

Ok, that makes sense. Life is not black and white, and you are sorting out which reasons are valid and which aren't.

Helping her with immediate expenses might make sense right now. How about helping with that and doing that on a monthly basis (as in not giving her a lump sum of money)?

Also, knowing that bailing her out of credit card debt wouldn't help her learn anything, that might be a strong reason to go back on that, what do you think? If she is in a real pickle, she might need to file for bankruptcy, or restructure her debt... .

Our relationship has improved since I promised help and I am worried how she will react when I will backtrack on my promise and revisit the original plan.

Yes, that is a point of concern. Unfortunately that is a very difficult situation to navigate with a person suffering from BPD, and many parents are initially held hostage by their fears (fears that the pwBPD may rage, or cut off the relationship or even harm themselves).

On the other hand, being treated badly when we say no and only being treated well when we say yes to the other person's demands is not a healthy way to be, is it?

And the hardest times to say no are in the beginning when we may not be equipped with the right skills/tools and may not be emotionally strong enough to withstand the backlash.

How about telling your daughter that you have since found out that while you would love to help, you cannot afford to take out the loan, and you will only be able to help her with some immediate expenses, and let her deal with her emotions and adjust to that idea?

(cross-posted with lbjnltx - sound advice!)  

[Adelheid]

I want to thank everyone for your support and advice. I have been reading your posts many times and doing a lot of thinking. I have revised my plan how to help my daughter. It'll be difficult to bring it to her however as one of the posts is saying, my financial situation is just as important as hers. For one thing, she has the ability to earn money and I don't anymore. Also, she needs to put the cards on the table and let me know what exactly is going on in her life both financially and professionally before I will help. It appears that our relationship has improved, based on us texting back and forth. I have contacted her father. We have been in touch when it concerns our children. He has the means to help financially and had been in the past. Our last meeting didn't go well. He got angry at me (i did not provoke him.) since I asked if could help with the rent and I would help otherwise. He demanded that they first build a relationship and spend time together. I agreed with him that we can demand respect but not love. He gets angry and frustrated easily which my daughter was a target of as an adolescent. So was I. She now avoids him. In essence, i don't expect his help at this point and rather not be around him for a while (i now have my boundaries up.) i have read your educational materials and your advise and am beginning to take better care of myself. Some comments of my other daughter have alerted me to the fact that I have to be a stronger role model. I have been leaving my house more often and have been enjoying my outings. I stlll rather not get together with friends. I feel like I have to make up white lies. I am beginning to take a step back and although wanting to help her to get back on track financially, I must have faith in her ability to solve her own problems, especially financially. Her impulsive decisions get her into trouble. Thank you again you again for listening. I appreciate any feedback you might have for me. Thanks again.

[Adelheid]

Just talked to my daughter. She keeps postponing us getting together. Some of what she is saying makes sense but our conversation ended up her being very angry. She said that she thought that she did not think that I would go through  with helping her financially just like i had ... .(abusive language). I promised I would. I am sure she won' t be happy with a compromise. She again blamed me for all her failures and hung up on me. I did not get to validate, etc... I texted her to confirm the day we had agreed upon to meet and assured her that I loved her. Surprisingly she texted back that she also loved me. She said I shouldn't call(she doesn't listen to my messages), as she has said before. I know that she is in a very difficult situation and trying to find solutions. She says that she needs to take naps and not to call. She won't give me any information. Her mood seems to be up and down. Luckily she has her friends. I hope they communicate. I wish I could help. What are your thoughts? She always has been very independent. Thanks for listening!

[meantcorn34]

I'm so glad you're taking care of your financial wellness first. I was worried about you. I'm also retired and can relate to your situation. Maintain those boundaries!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lbjnltx]

Speaking of boundaries Adelheid... .do you have boundaries set regarding communication and personal safety?

[pessim-optimist]

Speaking of boundaries Adelheid... .do you have boundaries set regarding communication and personal safety?

That's a really good point/question.

She keeps postponing us getting together.

You know, this might be actually working in your favor. Texting might be easier, since it gives you time to think about your replies and doesn't expose you to her anger directly.

She is bound to be angry if you don't do exactly what she wants, and she is going to push your buttons in order to get you to cave in. Being ready for that and being ready to protect yourself from her outbursts while offering what you are able to do all-the-while keeping a connection is important. So, what are your thoughts on lbjntlx's question? (We can help you brainstorm some solutions too, if you'd like).

I know that she is in a very difficult situation and trying to find solutions.

... .I wish I could help.

... .She always has been very independent.

How would you describe her independence in the past, has she regressed?

There is a really good book out there called Loving Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder. It is really helpful in giving practical advice on how to help our pwBPD (=person w/BPD): how to be supportive while encouraging them to find their own solutions. It can be really frustrating to them in the beginning, but in the end, it is empowering to them, because they become more confident and feel more competent.

On a side note - I am sorry you were the recipient of your ex husband's anger... .

I have contacted her father.

... .He has the means to help financially and had been in the past.

... .He got angry at me (i did not provoke him.) since I asked if could help with the rent and I would help otherwise. He demanded that they first build a relationship and spend time together. I agreed with him that we can demand respect but not love.

While I do not want to excuse him, it seems to me that he might feel used if he was helping his daughter who otherwise doesn't have a relationship with him.  It is, what it is. And their relationship or the lack thereof is not your burden to carry (even though it puts more pressure on you and demands more boundaries on your part). 

[mom2bpd]

Since she doesn't want to talk now, don't try to communicate with her. Let her stew in her self pity and she may come up with her own solution. I also have a 33yr old BPDD and I've found that she can resolve her own problems if I just don't respond quickly and let her think about her situation. She will initially lash out at me but then sometimes calm down and begin to think more rationally. Do not pay off her loan. It seems most BPDs have financial issues because they are so impulsive and entitled. She will get over it if u don't help her with the loan. U may lose contact with her temporarily but she'll come around again when she is looking for u to blame something on.

[Adelheid]

Thank you so much for your help. My daughter is demanding that I pay off her entire debt or she won't be able to apply for a new job. According to her she will not get accepted because of her debt. She says that she might have to change carriers. It is so sad because she has sacrificed a lot to get to this point. I have put together a financial plan and would pay half of her debt.she doesn't want to even listen. She texted that I either pay it all or she has to get "realistic",whatever that means. I feel incredible fear and am very anxious. I have taken out a loan and am thinking of paying her significant debt. It would be a huge sacrifice at this stage in my life and this frightens me as well. I could use some perspective. Don't know what to do.

Thank you for any comments.

[lbjnltx]

Hello Adelheid

This is going in circles, back where it began.

The fear based decisions are not helpful to you or your daughter.

[maxen]

hi Adelheid. financial issues certainly can be a stressor. they were with me and my BPD spouse. i had to put boundaries in place about her spending and she didn't like it one bit, calling me 'ungenerous', but i'm in my 50s and however much i was committed to the marriage i was not going to countenance getting myself victimized and jeopardizing our future to pay for her present. your daughter sounds like she's bringing the guilt to get herself relieved of responsibility for her choices. do you think, if you were to take that loan, that you could sleep at night? do you think your daughter's patterns would change?

[pessim-optimist]

This sounds rather stressful. I am sorry Adelheid... . 

According to her she will not get accepted because of her debt. She says that she might have to change carriers.

This may or may not be true. If so, she might have to temporarily change careers for a while until she gets out of debt... .It is not your responsibility to keep her in her career of choice, though, even if she invested so much effort into it and is trying to make you feel responsible. It is her debt and spending habits that is causing the trouble.

I really like this piece of advice from lbjnltx and right now, this is the best time to apply it:

Validate her feelings of frustration, fear, anger... .apologize for having to change course and ask if she would like for you to look further into the options or if she wants to do it herself.  Stand firm that you are not able financially to honor her request and that you have faith that you believe she can take care of this.

Be prepared to bear the brunt of her anger... .it is ok.  It doesn't meant you are making a mistake... .it means you are giving the responsibility back to her and she isn't used to that.

You can tell her what you are able and willing to help with and stand firmly on that.

And based on if she is approachable, this might be your next course of action:

Do you think you could approach your daughter with alternative solutions for her financial problems?  Maybe tell her you have looked at your financial situation and the loss of her income and decided to look further for help.  Maybe a debt restructuring plan or talking to the credit card company about lowering her payments until she gets another job... .?  Or whatever other resources you can find.

These times are so scary and stressful to navigate, we are here to support you through it.  

[Adelheid]

Thank you for your support. What disturbs me the most is that she says that she won't even want to meet till I have the money and am ready to sign the checks to erase her debt. I want more information from her such as what her chances are that she can work in her profession,eg if would apply in less desirable locations she would stand a better chance. I also want to go over a financial plan and questions, eg how to save money and to stay out of debt and get a feel for if it is worth my sacrifice. At this point I have very little info. She has shared minimally. I am not even sure about the exact amount of her debt. She has not been in communication since Monday. I have seen an attorney reg CDs which are in her name. There are problems reg cashing them in. She has tried with no avail and blames me, as always. I am very torn to pay or not. I am exhausted an can barely sleep. I am going to have a look at my financial situation today. I am not comfortable to talk to anyone. It truly could hurt her professionally. This is a realistic statement. Also not working in her profession for any length of time could be a problem for future employment. However, she needs to talk to me as mentioned. I also think she needs to go into counseling. She is well informed due to her training and concerned that this would be a problem for her. I would appreciate your perspective? We will get together on Friday unless she changes it which she has done frequently. I am under huge pressure. Thank you for any insights you could give me

Yl

[Adelheid]

Apologize for the many mistakes in my post. They are not due to my stress level. I was just typing as fast as I could since I have lost posts in the past due to me taking to long. Thanks,

Adelheid

[lbjnltx]

Apologize for the many mistakes in my post. They are not due to my stress level. I was just typing as fast as I could since I have lost posts in the past due to me taking to long. Thanks,

Adelheid

When you log into the site there is a place under your password that lists your log in time (180 minutes) and the option to check the "always stay logged in" you can change the minutes or check "always stay logged in" and your sessions won't time out. PS... you can still log out of the site at any time... .just recheck the box next time you come back.

hope that helps!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders