Did NC & disengagement/detachment cause“Extinction Bursts" that never ened?

[NewWays]

First, for all of you that are currently in the process of divorce with your BPD spouse, I sincerely wish you all the support and help that you can derive from the various tools and website information on what we all will most likely proceed to go through when our marriage with our BPD spouse begins to end and the start of the divorce.  Unfortunately, many of the dynamics and behaviors that we experienced with our BPD spouse will continue or even elevate to higher levels as we begin and continue through the ending of the relationship as well as the beginning of the divorce process. 

I have learned from Skip, United for Now and Green Mango*** on this site that many of the BPD spouse behaviors can continue, get worse or even new behaviors that were not present will arise due to the heightened levels of emotional stress and interaction brought about by the disengagement / detachment path the non takes and from what I have experienced has elevated to even a higher level during the end of our relationship and has reached even higher levels during the divorce.

In my case it appeared that the NC along with the detachment / disengagement caused a drastic increase in the emotional turbulence for my BPD spouse that saw the splitting, rage, berating / belittling and blaming behaviors continue and elevate in their frequency and the severity.  Now that we are in the divorcee process the elevation of her same actions have reached even higher levels. When I sense the mood and anger is beginning to approach her mood for physical violence that she has carried out in the past, I leave and go on what I call extended “Self – Soothing” walks.  While living in different rooms helps minimize contact it does not eliminate it, but at this juncture our financial situation is such that moving to separate living quarters is out of the question unless I move out and live in a cardboard box in the lower warehouse district in the city.

So the simple question to all…is it a given, that NC and the self-care actions taken by a non of disengagement / detachment that are intended to move the non to ceasing to worry and our “trying to fix” focus on our BPD spouse to a newer and more healthy focus as to what is good for us in our life, in many cases causes such drastic and heightened levels of “Extinction Bursts” from the BPD spouse that in some cases they do not ever subside and ultimately cause the non or the BPD spouse to end the relationship?

***As explained by Skip…Extinction Bursts – Important to Understand when your Partner has BPD / Questions about BPD and BPD resources section.


NewWays

[DreamGirl]

Good question. 

I might expect some reactions here - the core wound of a pwBPD is the fear of abandonment. Divorce is the ultimate testament to that fear, whether she took part in the relationship failing or not. She doesn't have the skill set or the resilience to deal with owning her part of the marriage coming to an end. So it makes it all your fault. The extinction bursting is simply to get your attention since you've made a choice to stop paying attention. It's up to you to how to deal with the extinction bursts. Many on the boards feel most comfortable letting their former spouse to deal with her emotional reactions while you start placing more focus on yourself (and the children). It makes sense though - however, with that comes having to to deal with the BPD tools in getting your reaction.

When it comes to the pwBPD in my life (the mama of my stepdaughters) and my husband, they function better with "limited contact" rather then "no contact".  This is mostly due to his abilities to set boundaries within their communication as well as his using other communication skills like SET and DEARMAN.

Do you have any specific examples as to what she's doing?

Do you have any children?

Where are you at as far as the divorce proceedings?

[Matt]

The extinction bursting is simply to get your attention since you've made a choice to stop paying attention.

Yes... . and maybe to punish you for not doing what she wants you to do.

I would suggest you be extremely careful at this time.  Many people with BPD find that the best way to punish the other party is to make false accusations;  if she calls the police and accuses you of something, you'll probably be assumed to be guilty til proven innocent.

Consider having an audio recorder with you whenever you might have contact with her, and take care that you can get away quickly - have your keys and wallet handy, and a place to go, so if she gets wound up you can just leave and come back later or the next day.

[livednlearned]

moving to separate living quarters is out of the question unless I move out and live in a cardboard box in the lower warehouse district in the city.

It took four paragraphs to ask us if you are in danger. Are you disassociating from the elevated stress right now? Your instincts are good, NewWays. Trust them.

Do you have anywhere safe you can go?





 

[NewWays]

All... .

Thanks to each of you for your reply.


The list goes on... .

The intensity is almost double for normal blaming, raging, etc.  Little things now set off the rage like I accidently ate some of her hummis that was in the frig... . the lecture and contempt and venomon was way out of line.

As I learned in the book, "splitting" she throws curves after we agree on someting in the divorce, that she wants to keep the house and refinance, but then threatens me if I do not pay most of the closing costs she will vanish and I will have to deal with all the issues without her.

She has been directing me not to do anything that would cause my attorney to contact her attorney unless she approves in advance since she has used up the mere $3,000 that she gave her attorney that she initially decided that she was only going to pay for legal fees and repremands me for wasting her time by using my attorney.  Last month her attorney told her she was about out of legal fee retainer and she told me that if the attorney contact continued she would leave or go to a neighborhood with gangs and gang shootings and then I would have that to live with the rest of my life if they shot her.

No children, thank God, but I wanted them so much that it still hurts that I may never experience that wonderful part life.

Already have the recorder... . and use it and document it and do go on many self-soothing walks to get out of the house when the behavior starts or I see it coming.

I am safe, but understand the risk and have a meeting scheduled with the precinct Captain of the Police Department Station which is 3 blocks away to make them aware and give them notice that a call in the future could be realated to the divorce and my wife and current situation.

I am taking one day at a time and hopefully the draft ageement I wrote will be reviewed by her by next week so we can get it typed up by the attorneys and ready for final review.

I will send some great stuff that I read from DBT / Founder Marsha Linehan (sp?) that is really good but even makes sense for nons as well.

I still have a ton of work to do myself... .

NewWays

[Matt]

Who is paying the mortgage now?

If it's you, my suggestion would be to talk with your attorney about how to get one of you out of the house right away - this week.

For example, you could quit paying the mortgage, and use that money for an apartment.  Tell the mortgage company what is going on, and that you will get caught up when the divorce is settled.  Maybe keep giving them a small amount each month to show good faith.

Or have your lawyer tell her lawyer that she should get out or there will be legal trouble resulting from her behavior.  Your lawyer can be frank:  "Your client has a serious behavior problem and it will get her into trouble soon if you don't find her a place to live - she cannot control her temper and my client is prepared to call the police when she acts out."

Living in this situation is too stressful for both of you.  You need to find a way to live apart.

[NewWays]

DreamGirl... .

Your wise insight please... . regarding your comments... . our endind began after an explosive rage and blaming that outlined my detachment was unacceptable and more evidence as to my action/behavior that was clearly the root cause of our disintegration and my total choice to add more evidence to the real cause of our failed marriage.

I told her our only hope was for both of us to agree to undergo comprehensive individual and joint therapy for at least 1-2 years.

She indicated she could not and would not do that because I was the one that needed Therapy and that all of our past sessions were only designed to find the bad in her... . then she filed for the divorce!

NewWays

[livednlearned]

Living in this situation is too stressful for both of you.  You need to find a way to live apart.

Agreed.

Thinking that a cardboard box is your only option is a type of magical thinking we do when we confront two equally painful and scary choices. Mine was thinking I would end up on food stamps, living in Section 8 housing. But that didn't happen. In fact, thinking about the number of options that became available when I finally left -- it takes my breath away how much kindness from friends and strangers opened doors for me I didn't even know were there.

You have more options, NewWays. You might have to step outside your comfort zone to see them, further than you like. Are you good at asking for help? Can you find house sitting arrangements on Craigslist? Can you telecommute, and find somewhere relatively inexpensive to live?

Your idea to let the Captain know what's going on is a good idea. (Also a sign you know you're playing with fire). What are your plans if she escalates to violence? Do you have a plan in place if she makes a false allegation against you?

My L told me that when the other person files divorce or leaves first, it's the person who is served that takes longer to accept the marriage is over. Have you accepted that the marriage is over? Is that preventing you from finding somewhere else to live right now?

[ForeverDad]

I told her our only hope was for both of us to agree to undergo comprehensive individual and joint therapy for at least 1-2 years.

She indicated she could not and would not do that because I was the one that needed Therapy and that all of our past sessions were only designed to find the bad in her... .

I too faced that stubborn wall and irresistible force.  It was daunting to me too.  As one example, she had conditioned me not to look at other women so I often found myself looking down to the floor when passing co-workers and acquaintances.  That's how shell shocked I was.

Another that shows I wasn't totally a goner back then... . in the later years she was more insistent to get apologize for any and every perceived slight and even dictated the words to me over and over until I got it all repeated or she gave up.  I tried it for several months to see whater it made a difference and of course it didn't.  I started a little strategy to see how many times she would make me repeat an apology to fit what she wanted to hear, yes, I was inserting one phrase while dropping another.  And she just kept on and on, she didn't notice.  I can't imagine a normal person demanding an apology a half dozen times before realizing how ridiculous it would be.  Naughty me.

Well, a few months before the end (separation) I tried joint counseling, utter failure.  She had total Denial and Blame Shifting.  She was no longer listening to me and had no respect left or me.  However, she was the one demanding respect and demanding to be listened too.

She had driven away most friends and family.  She was seeing more and more people as 'probably' child abusers.  When she started looking suspiciously at me, that's when I finally accepted it was Over, I had to protect myself and stopped trying to reason with her and accommodate her demands and ultimatums.

Court set temporary orders for her as temp custodial parent and me as alternate weekend parent.  After 2 years of delay every step of the way, we exited divorce into Shared Parenting and 50/50 time.  That failed and so I sought and obtained custody 3 years later, the GAL wanted the schedule to stay the same.  Over 2 years have passed and now I'm back in court seeking majority time.

Her sense of entitlement is still there and her demands still occur, but I have stronger boundaries now and all these years of conflict in court has made my parenting more confident and secure.

[DreamGirl]

This stuff is so tough.

As much as it feels like it to her... . not everything is all your fault. Not even her being shot by gang members.  

You do need to protect yourself. You do need to keep your own emotions in check. Long self-soothing walks is really good for that.

Is it feasible/reasonable these things she's asking of you? Do you fight often about food in the refrigerator?

Is living in the same house reasonable?

What is the long term plan as far as the house?

Is there a payoff to you both living in the same home?

Is it worth it in the long run?

It wasn't worth it to my husband during his divorce. He moved out of the marital home he shared with his ex-wife and found an apartment. When her boyfriend moved into the marital home, he stopped paying the mortgage. ("I won't pay the mortgage on a home where my wife lives with her boyfriend" It was detrimental to his credit, but not something he was willing to compromise. The house went into foreclosure and ultimately sold at a loss. His ex-wife moved 30 miles away with the kids (and the new BF) and it was all his fault. Fair enough that she saw it that way. It was the price he paid. Custody was determined, the house was what it was, and he recovered from it. We all do.

It's really hard to get along during a divorce - for anybody. It's an emotional time and a person suffering with BPD does not have the skill set to regulate emotions. It's why she ripped your head off for eating hummus. She's hypervigilant and any small slight will be perceived as a huge one - Skip often refers to it this as her being "emotionally sunburned". I don't know that you can do much to lessen this for her, divorce also making it less of your "job". You can try to manage the relationship, but it's a daunting task if she's determined to keep up the good fight. You can keep walking away. Don't engage in arguments. Defuse situations. Validate the feelings but not the truth. (i.e. I can see why you're frustrated with the finances, attorneys are expensive. Hopefully all of this will be over soon with the recent agreement.)

I'm very curious to the question livednlearned asked you as well.

Are you maybe not really wanting this divorce? Are you perhaps hanging onto hope for the marriage?

[NewWays]

Dream Girl, Matt, LivednLearned and ForeverDad... .

1.  We both are paying the mortgage and are wating for the bank to confirm if she can refinance... . so that is one of the payoffs is I get out from under the bank mortgage since we all know that the divorce decree means nothing to the bank as to who is liable for the mortgage.  So that is one payoff that keeps me living in the same residence.

2.  I also need to try and stretch another month or so hopefully we both are hopeful the refinance goes through I can move out when she gets the new mortgage and have those funds to use for my budget.

3.  I have also a big payoff which is my job.  Since I work for a major federal contractor I have a security clearance that includes regular financial reviews to ensure I am not becoming a possible target due to my finances that someone would offer me a sum of money or bribe to turn my head to get a sum of money if financial issues started to become real serious issues.  Not keeping you nose clean for that issue and if I lost my clearance, I would be hard pressed to get a job a McDonald's making Big Macs!

So you see, that is the rest of the story... . and I clearly understand and accept that this marriage is over.  My learning path that my therapist is helping me with has clearly made me understand that good relationships make one feel respected and loved, worthwhile... . not what has been my reality for for too long.

I have a Plan B if the rage goes violent with a "Go Bag" that contains all the necessary stuff If was forced away for the same.

The lising in the same house has really foreced me to understand that, I give other people the power to pull a trigger or annoy me.  It has helped me on my self-care and self-sooth walks better understand that, and I have been using my camera a lot which I love and with the fall colors just around the corner that will give me somt thing that I really do enjoy.

NewWays

[livednlearned]

Well, if things get bad, you know we're here. 

[NewWays]

The people here and what they offer, I personnally feel are great!

All this help... . reminds me of some of the lyrics from a favorite song of mine... . that go like this... .

"I get by with a little help from my friends!"

NewWays